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[TWoW Spoilers] Arianne I

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Targs have a tendency toward greatness and/or madness. I dont see either in "Aegon", rather some good qualities and some bad.

Don't forget that Aerys wasn't mad as a teenager or when he was crowned. It took time to develop and got worse as he got older.

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I don't think Yunkai raised many soldiers itself for the first conflict, they were mostly counting on the sellswords. Brown Ben Plumm crossed over to Dany at least partly because of the dragons, and left her again when it became evident she couldn't control them anymore. That left Dany with 1 company.

Meanwhile, the Yunkai got a number of legions from new Ghis, raised Trebuchets, extra levies, got those slinger-men from Tolos and their new sellsword companies include a pretty large one (was it 5000 men?) whereas Dany's single remaining company has 500 or so. One sellsword company isn't equal to another, look at the Golden Company which seems by far the largest and most competent of the companies. Having that one on your side may be worth as much or more as most of the other companies together.

Agree. To help clarify, the sellsword companies manpower is listed in the aDwD appendix.

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Targs have a tendency toward greatness and/or madness. I dont see either in "Aegon", rather some good qualities and some bad.

Since he isn't a Targaryen, that really doesn't matter.

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This is what I saw too. He seems like a pretty normal teenager so far - a little hotheaded, but underneath that he seems like a decent guy (as we can see when he nominates a loyal friend, Duck, to his Kingsguard rather than making a political choice). Of course, we all know how long decent guys last in Westeros...

I see a brat who didn't even listen to his mentor's political advice in that instance. I think that the most telling instance about YG's character is the cyvasse game with Tyrion and the tantrum he threw there. Tyrion mentions that it reminds him of Joffrey. I don't think that he's Joffrey, but I also think that he is more entitled and less noble than Illyrio and Varys like to think he is.

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I see a brat who didn't even listen to his mentor's political advice in that instance. I think that the most telling instance about YG's character is the cyvasse game with Tyrion and the tantrum he threw there. Tyrion mentions that it reminds him of Joffrey. I don't think that he's Joffrey, but I also think that he is more entitled and less noble than Illyrio and Varys like to think he is.

He flipped out over a stupid game... big deal. If he hadn't, people would be attacking him as a "Terry Stu" for being too good. :rolleyes:

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Since he isn't a Targaryen, that really doesn't matter.

I thought I implied that.

Aegeon is not the monster you seem to think him, yet. He has some very negative qualities that have been suppressed by his cloistered upbringing. But power corrupts, and while superficially the perfect king, I bet the weight of authority warps him.

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Much like the last time the Targaryens took control of Westeros I think it'll be interesting to see which smaller houses take advantage of the turnover and improve their lot. i.e. the Tyrells, the Lannisters, and the Tullys all received titles as Lords Paramount of the different regions. I think it'll be interesting to see if a house like the Florents (although they are doubtful considering the majority of there knights and such are/were with Stannis) or someone along those lines take advantage of Aegon's Rebellion. Most likely there will be a new Lord Paramount in the South and the West and god only knows what could happen with Sansa, the Iron Isles, Wintefell, etc.

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He flipped out over a stupid game... big deal. If he hadn't, people would be attacking him as a "Terry Stu" for being too good. :rolleyes:

Yeah.. the game sort of confirms how he acts later on in ADWD. Plus, sweet li'l Aegon the perfect is ever so blase about the fact that a nameless peasant child's head got smashed in so that he could live. Yep, that is totally the "perfect" King Arthur right there. Eight-year-old Tommen can figure out how to act more appropriately than "18-year-old Aegon." :rolleyes:

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Yeah.. the game sort of confirms how he acts later on in ADWD. Plus, sweet li'l Aegon the perfect is ever so blase about the fact that a nameless peasant child's head got smashed in so that he could live. Yep, that is totally the "perfect" King Arthur right there. Eight-year-old Tommen can figure out how to act more appropriately than "18-year-old Aegon." :rolleyes:

I would not put it against Aegon that a nameless peasant baby was killed for his life, he was a baby himself and did not participate in this decision. Two kids died for Bran and Rickon to live, but we do not change our assessment of the boys' characters.

Having said that Aegon seems to demonstrate both the dark side and the light associated with Targs. Which way will he turn - only time will tell. Also, it is possible that there is no such thing as a "good Targ". Some of them start very well, and then go completely insane over time

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I would not put it against Aegon that a nameless peasant baby was killed for his life, he was a baby himself and did not participate in this decision. Two kids died for Bran and Rickon to live, but we do not change our assessment of the boys' characters.

It's not that someone died---it's that Aegon doesn't seem to care that someone died. When Bran/Rickon find out about the miller's sons, they're probably going to be pissed off, like Arya (and Eddard) were about Mycah when Sandor killed him. That Aegon thinks a peasant's life is inherently worth less than his own does not speak well of his character.

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It's not that someone died---it's that Aegon doesn't seem to care that someone died. When Bran/Rickon find out about the miller's sons, they're probably going to be pissed off, like Arya (and Eddard) were about Mycah when Sandor killed him. That Aegon thinks a peasant's life is inherently worth less than his own does not speak well of his character.

You haven't seen inside his head, he may very well feel bad about it.

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Yeah I dont disagree that Roose may know, the question is does Ramsay? Imo this could make for a fantastic plotline in the north.

Like a few other people I understand that part of ASOIAF revolves around the older generations coming to an end and newer characters coming and starting their story. This may be a crackpot theory but im expecting Roose to die soon. Like Eddard, Tywin,Robert, Jon Arryn and others ( Soon to be doran imo seeing his health state in ADWD) I believe Roose is next. Anyhow, the way this theory is connected is because I believe Roose knows about Arya and has failed to let his son know, I reckon this could put us on the lines for a Ramsay killing Roose and a disintegration of Bolton forces.

Anyway thats my speculation ^^

Im loving the spoilers for TWOW already, thanks for the thread guys.

ramsay probably knows. he's kept the girl pretty much out of sight since the wedding. and his letter to jon snow would suggest this as well since he only refers to her as his bride and not by the name arya.

and he might not care either way. he just seems like a fool and a psycho.

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Wasnt he told by his father to keep the girl out of sight because she was always crying? And he didnt want the northmen here to see it?

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I dont remember the dragons playing a large role in the yunkai battle, they were to young, the only reason they played such a role in astapor was because they had no army at the time (they sold it to dany). And now yunkai had 3 sell sword companies instead of 3, but now Dany had 2 instead of O. The leavies were the leavings that werent good enough for Yunkai in the first battle, so I am not sure how they are all that terrifying.

If Dany just left her walls and swept up this rabble, their would be no rallying point for the rest of the free cities to send reinforcements. They only got there because Dany dithered, worried about losing a city that wasnt hers and which she had already taken once.

And if the walls were so fearsome, she could have always torn them down before left for battle. (conquer or die :unsure: )

Dany's problem is that she faces an enemy within, as well as an enemy without.

Had she marched out to fight the Yunkish army, and its allies, I think she'd have won. But, it would have been a much closer-run thing than the earlier battle, given that the soldiers from New Ghis, and the Windblown and Cats, appear to be pretty formidable.

And, she ran the risk of the Great Masters rising up and taking control of Mereen in the absence of her army. So, she opts for a political marriage, in the hope of conciliating both sets of enemies.

By the end of the book, however, I think the outcome of the coming battle before Mereen isn't in much doubt. Victarion is about to fall on the slaver fleet; the pale mare has decimated the besieging army; and the Windblown and Second Sons seem to be on the point of defection. How are the besiegers going to fight back against almost 8,000 unsullied, pouring out of the city, under the command of someone as seasoned as Ser Barristan?

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As usual on this board, this thread has gone way off topic … honestly, I don’t feel like digging through 13 pages of random ramblings and miscellaneous musings just to find out if or if not Trebla has already posted her complete notes on the reading. — A link to the relevant post (if existant) edited into the original post would be much appreciated, perhaps not only by me.

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It's not that someone died---it's that Aegon doesn't seem to care that someone died. When Bran/Rickon find out about the miller's sons, they're probably going to be pissed off, like Arya (and Eddard) were about Mycah when Sandor killed him. That Aegon thinks a peasant's life is inherently worth less than his own does not speak well of his character.

How do you know he is not sorry about them? We have not had his POV. But if anything he is been thought that a King sometimes has to take hard decisions, those that would cost lives and he may mourn if he wishes but he must go on. So I doubt that he would think about a kid that was murdered for him 18 years ago unless someone reminded him, and then if anything likely it's going to harden him, remind him the cost of failure. But we don't know what he thinks. For all we know he might exult in the death of the child, or he might be sad, hopefully he does not feel guilty since it is not his fault (and guilt can destroy any man)

Bran and Rickon know about the miller sons - right there when they emerged from the keep and meet Maester Luwin. And I don't remember Bran feeling sorry although it was his POV.

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As usual on this board, this thread has gone way off topic … honestly, I dont feel like digging through 13 pages of random ramblings and miscellaneous musings just to find out if or if not Trebla has already posted her complete notes on the reading. A link to the relevant post (if existant) edited into the original post would be much appreciated, perhaps not only by me.

No additional info whatsoever has been posted since page 1. It seems like only 2 or so people were at the reading and at all willing to talk about it (with us, anyway) ...

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It's not that someone died---it's that Aegon doesn't seem to care that someone died. When Bran/Rickon find out about the miller's sons, they're probably going to be pissed off, like Arya (and Eddard) were about Mycah when Sandor killed him. That Aegon thinks a peasant's life is inherently worth less than his own does not speak well of his character.

I'm honestly impressed you can extrapolate this and post it without obvious irony. Good job, Stretch Armstrong! :lol:

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I'm sure someone else will chime in with a more detailed report, but in the meantime...

basically Arriane, Elia, and some others from Dorne are traveling to meet lord Connington. Arriane spends much of the trip thinking about Quentyn and if he actually found Dany, wondering, "do I have to call him King".

At one point Elia wanders off into a cave where they find carvings from the children of the forest. She's acting out a little bit and Arriane has to put her in her place.

When they finally arrive at Griffins Roost they learn that Connington has already left for Storms End. Later they learn that he has taken the castle! Arriane doesn't quite believe it, but when asked by conningtons men if she would like to be taken to see Connington and Aegon, they would escort her by sea. She was urged not to go by (I forget), but declared that she wanted to see this "Dragon"....

Predictions:

Arriane's tits will be described yet again. Extensively. (Seriously, even given the boob fetish shown in these books-- even twelve year old Sansa's "teats" are lovingly, lustfully, PANTINGLY described-- the hang up on Arriane's breast's is so blatant to the extent that it's downright laughable.)

Second prediction:

Arriane's putting the little sand snake in her place will have something to do with said sandsnake either a. acting vengeful, or b. talking back/ rebelling against or insulting the wise and criminally disrespected patriarch Doran.

(Meh, maybe this second one won't happen... fair chance though.)

Third and most defininate prediction:

Arrianne's little venture to see "the dragon" will end in disaster. That is what happens every time when she disobeys papa patriarch Doran. The last time she disobeyed him and former her own plan she failed epically, humiliatingly, and, the text emphasizes, stupidly. When Arrianne last acted for herself, she is portrayed as an idiot who thinks herself clever. (Like Cersei.) When she obeyed papa and did everything he said (bowed to his superior wisdom and happilly obeyed his will) she was portrayed as intelligent and "good." Now that she's disobeying him again, the result is sure to be disaster. Silly Arrianne!

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I don't think Arianne is disobeying Doran at all? She is regularly sending ravens to report.

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