[Book Spoilers] Will the impact of the RW be different due to differing medium

[The Bloody Boar]

I think if done right the RW could go down as one of the cultural landmarks in television this decade. The closest analogy I can think of would be the opening of Saving Private Ryan. Only, imagine if you have been following Tom Hank and his friends for many months as they prepare for the invasion, and also no one expects the Germans to be anywhere close. And once the beach landing happens, total mind-numbing chaos and slaughter. And it ends with Tom Hank's character shot dead right as he is about to get off the beach.

You just made me think, what if you'd been watching Band of Brothers, seeing Easy Company train, seeing how awesome they are, and then instead of parachuting in they're all on that boat in the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan and get cut to pieces before they have a chance to even move. And, like you said, if the main character gets shot down too. Brutal!

(It would probably take 5 or 6 boats, but you get the idea.)

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I wonder how they'll handle Arya's fake death? I was totally convinced in the novels. If they could make it look like they've killed off three main characters, that would be monumental.

you could have it be that the lower half of the hound is shown so we don't see who it is. he's shown riding towards Arya and then Arya gets hit in the head. then cue the credits.

That scene, along with Bran's fall was one of the couple times skipped ahead to make sure they weren't dead.

[Aegnor]

you could have it be that the lower half of the hound is shown so we don't see who it is. he's shown riding towards Arya and then Arya gets hit in the head. then cue the credits.

That scene, along with Bran's fall was one of the couple times skipped ahead to make sure they weren't dead.

Weird, I don't remember thinking there was any chance she was dead. I don't remember it being hidden that it was the Hound that threw the axe, and at that point I knew there was no chance he would try and kill Arya for no reason, so I figured he did exactly what it turned out he did...knocked her out with the back of the axe.

[Umberto]

One big thing people tend to overlook is the ages of the children.The actors who portray Arya, Sansa and Bran are going to change in appearance significantly as they stretch the seasons out. Years will go by in real time, but only months and so forth technically happen in the story.

How do you all think they will deal with this?

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

Well, with the faceless men they can just make Arya as the actor dissappear and chose a new younger actress, if that doesn't change the story up all that much later on. (If she needs to be recognized, to the family that can be done via Needle and Nymeria). With Sansa, it's not that big a problem as she's already old enough that it's not that obvious. I guess also that's one of the reason we didn't see Rickon that much. The bigger problem I see with Bran and Tommen (how much did we see of Myrcella yet?).

[lyvyathan]

Then you're biased.

Killing off two main characters isn't some uber mega ultimate thing that no show has ever attempted before. Plenty of shows do it. I'll repeat: What made Ned's death so showing wasn't that he was a main character, it was because people presumed he was THE main character, and it's pretty much unprecedented to kill off your MAIN character after 9 eps.

Killing off main characters happens all the time. People will be shocked, yes, upset, yes. But it won't be the thing that sets GoT apart from other TV shows. And I don't think it'll be as upsetting as Ned's death (But I could be wrong).

He's not bias. He's just saying it would be a big deal.

I was going to reply with two words - Boromir and Gandalf. haha.

I guess people were shocked by Ned's death because in the HBO series- a lot of the action revolved around him. The character did enjoy a good deal of screen time. And Sean Bean did an incredible job as usual. If a less charismatic actor had played the role, mayhaps the audience wouldn't have been so enamored for him.

I remember a story being told about a Macbeth play where a famous actress was playing Lady Macbeth. When her death scene came up, the audience stood up, clapped and carried her off the stage. The play was over as far as they were concerned.

[Aegnor]

I was going to reply with two words - Boromir and Gandalf. haha.

Hmm...I don't see the parallel at all. Not with Ned's death, and certainly not with the Red Wedding. Both Gandalf and Boromir dying are standard tropes. The older mentor who dies (sort of) which allows the young hero to move to the forefront. The good guy who is tempted into doing something bad, who then redeems himself by sacrificing his life for the cause. The Red Wedding would be as if Frodo, Gandalf, Aragorn, Merry, Pippen, and Legolas were all killed and Sam and Gimli took the ring to Mordor.

It isn't that two good side characters died. It's who the characters were, and how they died.

[Blangadanger]

I just got through reading aSoS, and I just don't see how it's possible they can do the entire book in 10 episodes. It would be horribly done if they cut that much out. RW is the big moment of the book, but it's nearly at the halfway point of the book (55% according to my Kindle), and a whole ton of jarring events happen from that moment until we see Cat at the end. Not only are there big moments, but several of the events have lots and lots of interesting dialogue. There are four weddings in the book, and two of them will need at least a full episode worth of attention. Jon's story is enormous, Jaime's story is enormous, and Dany's story is enormous.

Now what they could do is go for a longer season: perhaps 16 episodes instead of 10. They could also make one or two episodes longer as well. That I could see working a fair bit better. My only worry is if you split the season a year apart, you're not only making it harder to keep the audience (i.e. the one that doesn't read the books) interested in all of the characters, you risk having the main actors getting older and/or disinterested with the series. Considering the great actors involved in the first season, I'd hate to see them go to waste waiting for filming to begin another year down the line.

Also, it wouldn't be terrible if GRRM felt a tad bit more pressure to finish his epic story if he knew he had a year less to work on it.

[Aegnor]

I really don't think they are considering doing ASoS in one season. They certainly can't do it in one year without farming out much of the writing, which they don't want to do. So the choices are:

1) split it into two seasons somewhere after the Red Wedding. The 4th season would be post RW book 3, and probably some of the beginning of book 4/5.

2) cover all of book 3 in season 3, but make it a longer season (16-20 episodes). This would likely take 1.5+ years to do.

3) hack and slash in order to fit season 3 into one normal length season.

I don't think they will take option 3, unless ratings bomb during season 2, which I don't think likely. They could do option 2, but I really don't think so. I don't think they want a 1.5 year break between episodes.

[lyvyathan]

Hmm...I don't see the parallel at all. Not with Ned's death, and certainly not with the Red Wedding. Both Gandalf and Boromir dying are standard tropes. The older mentor who dies (sort of) which allows the young hero to move to the forefront. The good guy who is tempted into doing something bad, who then redeems himself by sacrificing his life for the cause. The Red Wedding would be as if Frodo, Gandalf, Aragorn, Merry, Pippen, and Legolas were all killed and Sam and Gimli took the ring to Mordor.

It isn't that two good side characters died. It's who the characters were, and how they died.

Wait before you compare the Red Wedding deaths with Frodo, Gandalf, Aragorn, Merry, Pippen - tell me how many POV characters died in RW?

Imho, Ned and Robb's role was similar to Gandalf and Boromir. They were key characters but they died all the same. Don't mention White Gandalf otherwise I'll mention Stoneheart :D

The central POV characters are still intact - we still have Dany, Arya, Sansa, Jamie. Cersei stories to follow. Not to mention the newer ones, Asha, Theon etc..

LOL. Wouldn't it be a screamer if Ned and Robb were resurrected in the last book?

[Sasha Steelsong]

you could have it be that the lower half of the hound is shown so we don't see who it is. he's shown riding towards Arya and then Arya gets hit in the head. then cue the credits.

That scene, along with Bran's fall was one of the couple times skipped ahead to make sure they weren't dead.

So glad I'm not the only one who did that. As soon as that Arya chapter ended I flipped through the remaining pages just to see her name. Mind you at that point I was completely distraught and NEEDED her to live since I didn't put much stock in either Catelyn or Robb getting out alive.

I also think it will be like Bran's fall in the first episode in that it will end whatever episode it is in. I just hope it isn't the last episode for the season. Hell even now that promo gets to me "Wolves are bleeding" - yes they are and have been for four books since. It would be torture to wait for the conclusion/confirmation of who made it out for a whole year.

Then again I'm sort of hoping the RW stays in the same season as Joffery's death, it would be a nice way to bookend the season with the deaths of kings. I just don't feel like the RW is a good place to end it given how everything plays out, it would be like ending season 1 with "Balor." People are going to need to process their grief by seeing who is left standing. I know Joffery doesn't die at the exact end, but close enough that if they do the RW as the season opener you could have Joffery die one or two episodes from the end.

[Knepah]

I think that Season 3 should end with Cat being res'd as well. I think it would work as the epilogue, AFTER the credits. I'd imagine the shots to be like this:

Aerial shot of a nude body on a riverbed and eerie music playing. It harks back to motifs from The Rains of Castermere. Its raining, thunder and lightning*. From the outside of the shot we see three men in coloured cloaks (red, yellow and purple) semi-circle the corpse.

Then a 0.5- 1.0 second "flashback" of the RW. Robb getting shot.

Back to the shot of the body, the men are kneeling beside the corpse.

Then another 1.0 second "flashback" of the RW. Robb getting stabbed with a reverberating "ugh!" sound and a woman screaming.

Back to the shot of the body, the men in the red and purple cloaks are knelt over it.

Another flashback, of Catelyn getting her throat slit.

Then a shot of the corpse's face, the off camera sound of somebody ugh-ing collapsing, and then as he falls, UnCat opens her eyes.

Fade to black, and the sound of crows quorking and a dragon roaring "Game of Thrones shall return in Spring 20XX"

** the lightening iis to emphasise that Dondarrion is the Lightening Lord

[Lord Barristan]

I wonder how they will pull off "the rains of castamere" for this wedding... that made it all the more eerie.. i get goosebumps every time i even think about it... as i recall, catelyn says, there was no singing but she knew the words... that will be different for sure

i think they will do a good job, but the way martin wrote it was so beautifully sad... i mean tearworthy, not just for the deaths, but for the inner dialogue of Catelyn talking to Ned about their children. I mean I think this scene was the saddest, most horrifying, most shocking i've ever read.

with those factors, i think it will be shocking, but not have the emotional impact the book had.

Not to mention, I doubt the smalljon, dacey mormount, or ser wendell manderly will even be cast, so that will also make it less scarring.

[Slychd]

However they do it, I will be sad to see Michelle Fairley and Richard Madden leave. Casting was great all around, children and adults, but Michelle Fairley was one of the standout adult actors in my opinion.

[Knepah]

However they do it, I will be sad to see Michelle Fairley and Richard Madden leave. Casting was great all around, children and adults, but Michelle Fairley was one of the standout adult actors in my opinion.

Surely Michelle Fairley will be staying on to play Lady Stoneheart?

[Slychd]

Surely Michelle Fairley will be staying on to play Lady Stoneheart?

I would imagine so, (and I bet she will be just smashing at it) but Lady Stoneheart doesn't really have much "screentime" in the books.

[Nuke1096]

Since they are filming S3 and S4 together, I think they should end S3 with the Red Wedding, then not introduce Lady Stoneheart at all until the very last scene of S4. They can drop hints during S4 as to what happened. They can state that Beric is dead and he gave his life to "save another". But they can never show any of that. Then the final scene in s4 plays out and bam Cat is undead Cat and still alive. Cut to black. Insert GRRM Trollface to the audience.

[Loras]

I feel that Season 3 is really going to emphasise the differences between Robb and Jon. Both of them will be showcasing one of the key themes of the story, that of honour.

My vision is that Episode 3.09 will be the Red Wedding episode and include the deaths of Catelyn and Robb. As others have pointed out there has to be a moment of 'hope' - I think that moment would be Cat being resurrected, with the viewer left to wonder what kind of shit is going to hit the fan because of the resurrection.

I also expect 3.10 to be the Wildlings assault on Castle Black, Jon returning in the previous episode. I think that there will be some parallel drawn between Jon kissing Ygritte and Beric raising Cat. From an economic point of view this means that the actress playing Ygritte would be free at the end of Season 3. A moment of Deus Ex Machina would also be on offer as Sam and Gilly prepare to be killed by Wights and are saved by Coldhands. Sansa and Tyrion would get married, though I don't see that as entirely hopeful and Dany lays waste to Astapor. Also Jaime could save Brienne from the pit.

I doubt the real significance of The Red Wedding would be shown until Season 4... I think the finale should leave the reader feeling hollow - but there would be a moment of hope for vengeance at the end.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

It will be definitely painful to watch, in the book we don't get a Robb POV but in the show he's a major character and non book readers will be probably shocked with the RW. I'm dying to watch it on the show even though I know it's gonna be heartbreaking. Also, I always thought the RW scene would be the season finale for season 3.

[Jamie Lannister]

Also, I always thought the RW scene would be the season finale for season 3.

That's one way to create a surge of book sales I suppose.