Moments that make you angry

[David Selig]

Robb marrying Jeyne. By far the dumbest and most irresponsible act in the whole series.

Every time Viserys opened his mouth, the guy was such a complete jerk and moron with a huge ego.

The cliffhangers at the end of AFFC and ADWD, I hate Martin's love for them.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

ser jorah carrying a then pregnant daenerys into the tent after having been told not to disturb mirri maz dur while she was doing her blood magic to save drogo.

I just re-listened to this chapter. In fairness, Ser Jorah was told nothing of the kind. He'd already left the tent to put on his mail by the time the ritual started and MMD told Dany no one must enter. And then Jorah was told that the only woman available who knew about birthing was MMD. Dany is screaming NO DON'T GO IN inside her own head but can't get the words out... So tragic.

P.S. What happened to our icons! Will we have to reupload? omg.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Why didn't she learn how to sword fight, like Arya? Why not be like Brienne? Perhaps Tywin was less tolerant than Eddard in letting his children be who they were. But Cersei still could have learned in secret, instead of becoming a blatant misogynist.

This is disturbing to read, you make it seem as if the only two options for women are 1) to become as much like men as possible or 2) to become mysogynist.

This idea is mysogynistic itself because it implies that "male" pursuits like fighting are always better than "female" pursuits.

There is nothing fundamentally "liberating" or "feminist" about pushing down everything feminine about oneself and pretending to be a man instead. If that's who you are, then great! ANd it's an understandable path in such a sexist society as Westeros, so go Arya and Brienne. But if that's not who you are (Cersei, Sansa, Catelyn, Arianne), you should not be judged for it.

[Yellow Dog]

I don't get the Catelyn hate. People who hate her seem to think she's to blame for EVERYTHING and that she is probably The Great Other. Come ON people, did you read the same book I did?

She RIGHTLY advises Robb to NOT send Theon to parley with the Ironborn, but Robb ignores her. So it's Robb's fault that everybody thinks Bran and Rickon are dead, NOT CAT'S. Theon never could have taken Winterfell if Robb hadn't sent him back to the Iron Islands. This pissed me off royally.

Catelyn did free Jaime, though I don't blame her for this. It sets in motion the event that changes Jaime forever - losing his sword hand. It sets up his redemption arc. It also sets up Brienne being given part of Ice that Lord Tywin had given to Jaime (which Jaime was royally insulted by). Now one of the Stark's has the ability to at least get back part of Ice, their family Valyrian blade that had been in their possession for hundreds if not thousands of years.

Ned trusting Littlefinger pissed me off. He knew LF still loved Cat, he KNEW LF TOLD HIM NOT TO TRUST HIM, yet he does anyway. IDIOT! I was very upset when Ned was beheaded, however. I did admire his honor and his courage in standing up to King Robert when he ordered Dany killed. I just wish he'd gotten back to Winterfell before the King changed his mind....sigh.

Jaime pissed me off when he told Tyrion the truth about Tysha...what an awful, horrid thing to do to your brother.

And Twyin deserved the worst death imaginable - his final words to Tyrion made me think his death was justified ("Where did she go?" "Wherever whores go" = ASSHOLE. And arranging the gang rape...ugh, don't get me started. Poor Tysha.)

Twyin ordering the deaths of Rhaenys, Aegon, Elia getting raped and murdered, all this infuriates me. And Robert deserves blame for this for sitting there like he's all relieved - asshole. Eddard was right to quarrel with him over it.

Tywin's general approval and ordering of brutality by The Mountain (Gregor) and his other minions also makes me think of him as a Hitler type jackass. Sure, he's a great strategist and a competent war leader. But that doesn't make him good. His sanction of rape, mutilation, and murder (ie Pia) is beyond redemption.

Tywin also angers me when he tells Tyrion that he can't have Casterly Rock, and says something along the lines of "I can't disown you just because I can't prove you're not mine, and YOU KILLED MY BELOVED WIFE!" Blaming an infant for their mother dying in childbirth? For real? Blame yourself for knocking her up in the first place.

Tywin was fucking Shae, and she deserved to die too, for mocking Tyrion and testifying against him. Stupid bitch. I know she didn't love him and was playing a role, but he kept her safe, damnit, and he treated her well, and gave her plenty of money.

And Shae betrayed him and publicly humiliated him. Tywin fucking her was disgusting, and an even worse betrayal. She was simply a gold-digging whore and moved onto Tyrion's daddy, who had more gold and more power, despite the fact Tyrion cared for her and treated her well. Ugh, I just hate Shae. Just my opinion.

Oberyn not winning the trial by combat also infuriated me. Why didn't he just STEP ASIDE AND LET THE MOUNTAIN DIE?! It's not that hard! UGH.

It also pissed me off that Cersei blames Tyrion for pretty much everything, after Joffrey's death (which he had no part in). Later in her POVs we see her paranoia that he's creeping around the castle walls. Geez lady, get a freakin shrink.

When she actually tries to have Ser Bronn killed JUST FOR NAMING HIS STEP BABY TYRION, it infuriated me. Can't the woman pick her battles? It's just a freakin name. And then when it gets flubbed, she throws a highborn lady into the dungeon just so she can't gossip about it.

Cersei in general pisses me off because of her blindness (mainly due to Maggy's prophesy) and her sluttery, and her misogyny. At least Jaime has only slept with her...she uses him like a freaking tool. I'm glad Jaime realizes this, eventually, when he crumples and burns her letter for help.

Cersei replacing the council with "yes men" also pissed me off. She is just an idiot - she should be smart enough to realize that alienating the Tyrells is a dumb move (they have a huge army in the city, and the smallfolk LOVE Margery).

Cersei should have listened to her Uncle Kevan and gone back to Casterly Rock. She could have been Lady of the Rock, and that's quite a bit of power (even if she IS juuuust a useless woman, as she often thinks to herself).

Cersei's walk of shame was poetic justice. for me..and shows she isn't as "HAWT" as she thinks she is. Saggy breasts, stretch marks, and age all take their toll. Beauty fades...too bad she didn't realize that.

Arya is a good foil for Cersei, in that she NEVER hates the fact that she's a female. She just decides to break societal conventions and says Bugger that to anyone who tries to make her into a "little lady".

I love Arya's spirit and her statement to Eddard that being a "Lady" wasn't her.

IMHO, If Cersei had been anything like Arya, instead of hating her entire gender because she viewed them as weak, she'd have been happier and less evil.

Why didn't she learn how to sword fight, like Arya? Why not be like Brienne? Perhaps Tywin was less tolerant than Eddard in letting his children be who they were. But Cersei still could have learned in secret, instead of becoming a blatant misogynist.

The only reason Cersei fucks Jaime is because she sees her own reflection in him, and WISHES SHE COULD BE HIM (at least while he still had his swordhand). Cersei is the definition of a blatant narcissist. Most of the things she does piss me off.

I wanted to yell at "Cat of the Canals" when she encountered Sam and didn't ask about John. I know she's supposed to be "no one" but I hate that for her character.

She is Arya Stark of Winterfell, powerful warg, decent Waterdancer, and incredibly adept escaping from bad situations/places. I don't want her to become "no one". I want her to remember who she is, and not give up on being a Stark.

ETA: Spelling mistakes, and to apologize for the Wall of Text. Sorry if it's TL;DR. :blushing:

Methinks I have found another Tyrion fan. Or at least a defender. Welcome to the club. :)

[Seamus1602]

Mostly its characters I like that make me angry, though exceptions to that are always granted to Lannisters and their bannermen.

-Ned not telling Jon anything about his mother/heritage before leaving Winterfell

-Sansa not telling the truth re: Arya and Joffrey

-Ned killing Lady, even though Robert didn't actually give that order

-Sansa telling Cersei of Ned's plans to leave King's Landing

-Ser Meryn (I think) killing Syrio Forel

-Ser Gregor killing a child and infant, then raping their mom

-Ser Gregor and his men for their gang rape of the daughter of the tavern owner (as heard by Arya)

-Everything that happened to Tyrion and Tysha

-Theon and the Bolton Bastard killing the miller's wife and her 2 sons, then skinning them

-The Bolton Bastard's idea of 'sport'

-Theon taking Winterfell

-Dany deciding that marriage trumps dragons when trying to win a war

-Melissandre for her prejudiced misinterpretation of her flame prophecies

-Cersei's order to the Kettleback to bed Margary, which I was sure was going to result in M's rape by Kettleback

-The fact that after the Red Wedding I was sure no one was safe, but by the time the NW was knifing Jon, I already knew he wasn't dead (or wouldn't remain dead). Same for Brienne's AFFC cliffhanger. Wouldn't it be a better story if Stoneheart had actually hanged her? I guess we'll see where B and Jaime end up.

-That Tyrion wasn't given more credit for the battle at King's Landing

-Cersei ordering Bronn to be killed

-Realizing that the Hound and Arya weren't going to become the awesomest buddy cop/outlaw team EVER.

-Littlefinger's skeaviness re: Sansa

-Littlefinger and Cersei, for Jeyne Poole

-Deus ex machina that made Dany's DWD storyline mostly dragonless (linked to Dany's marriage = way to win war plan above)

-Robert, because I've never actually believed that he loved Lyanna as much as he loved the IDEA of Lyanna. How many deaths since are just a sop to his pride?

-Stannis never telling Robert he was being cuckolded

-Joffrey existing

-Dany continuing to believe her bother's version of Robert's War wholeheartedly, knowing what and who V was

-Craster raping all of his daughters

-Alliser Thorne existing

-Bowen Marsh et all killing/trying to kill Jon

-Anytime any Stark decides to ignore their direwolf

-Tyrion still hasn't gotten to speak with Dany. I was waiting for his, "Are you a dragon, or a blushing bride?" to wake her up.

-Tyrion and Bronn breaking up (for the moment, at least)

-FrankenGregor existing, becoming KG, and being Cersei's champion

-Brienne searching for Sansa by just asking people on the road

-GRRM introducing non-name chapters in AFFC and one-off narrators outside prologues and epilogues

-Any Freys still alive

-Slavers trying to enslave women and children from Hardhome

-Dareon deserting the NW while in Bravos (Arya killing him made me happy, though)

-Rhaegar not being more subtle re: Lyanna

-Viserys' 'I'd let the whole khalasar and their horses rape you for my crown' speech to Dany

-Mirri dur Maz (or whatever her name was) killing Dany's fetus in retaliation for not rescuing her from gang rape fast enough

That might cover it for now. We'll see.

[FuliginEyes]

This hate starts to be amusing. Not to mention that she did try harder and didn't forsake them. She freed Jaime eventually to exchange him for her daughters. Robb refused to listen to her but you can not say that she didn't try hard enough in this Jaime/her daughters case.

But, it doesn't matter, does it? Because Catelyn will be hated no matter what she did or did not do or could have done. She is hated because she did not stay in Winterfell. No, she is hated because she stayed with Robb but didn't try harder. No, she is hated because she tried a little bit too hard. Then, she's hated because she left Bran in Winterfell. No, she is hated because she spent weeks beside his bed praying for him. She is hated because she thinks only of herself. No, she is hated because she whines about her fears for her children and family.

It seems pointless to me, really.

I said that as a sarcastic response to Jon fanboyism around the forum. Poor little Jon, he had such a horrible life, anyone who dares to confront him or do not like him must be evil and condemn to death. Yeah, whatever.

I like Cat, I do. I am aware of her flaws and bad decisions. Her hate towards Jon I understand. I don't really approve it but I understand. TBH, if GRRM had made her to be very nice and endearing to Jon it would have been very unrealistic. You can go and say as much as you want how it wasn't fair to Jon. It wasn't, true. Not his fault. But, you know what? People are not robots. Her behavior towards Jon wasn't really good but so understandable and even predictable when it comes to human nature. For what it worths, she could have been a lo lot worse towards him. In Cersei and Tywin kind of way, for example.

I any case, hate Cat as much as you like, your choice. But those people who are ready to describe her as a worst and most evil person in Westeros, selfish bitch and so on, frighten me a little bit with their moral standards.

This thread is about moments that made you angry. I didn't take it to mean worst or most evil things that have happened in Westeros. And I am entitled to my opinion without having someone imply a questioning of my 'moral standards'.

Yes, how Catelyn acted regarding Arya and Sansa irritated me. There is even a line in CoT where she says something like maybe Robb isn't even wrong for not wanting to exchange the Kingslayer for Arya and Sansa - they are just two mere girls, whereas he is the Kingslayer.

Re: Jon and almost excusing Catelyn's behaviour by saying 'people are not robots' - yeah well obviously. Doesn't make her actions there any less disgusting. And of course Tywin is a worse parent (that goes without saying lol), but the thing with Catelyn is she thinks she is a fantastic parent and I don't remember many sections of the book where she even for a moment really felt remorse for how she treated Jon. This shows a nasty underside to her character that shouldn't be excused. She is a mother after all, so surely she should understand that he was just a boy, it was not his fault if he were Ned's bastard son? She should look at her own children and think oh, what if someone ever treated them how I treat Jon, but she doesn't. And I don't really find her vicious attitude that understandable - it is her own choice. Not everyone would have reacted that way and hated Jon from the moment he arrived as a small babe, constantly, without change. And she hated/resented him because of pure jealousy.

That said, yes Ned should have told her the real deal (if he isn't his bastard son) and tried to put a stop to her behaviour.

Anyway, I never said 'hate' when talking about Catelyn. Those things above just infuriated me. And it's my opinion.

[FuliginEyes]

Tywin was fucking Shae, and she deserved to die too, for mocking Tyrion and testifying against him. Stupid bitch. I know she didn't love him and was playing a role, but he kept her safe, damnit, and he treated her well, and gave her plenty of money.

And Shae betrayed him and publicly humiliated him. Tywin fucking her was disgusting, and an even worse betrayal. She was simply a gold-digging whore and moved onto Tyrion's daddy, who had more gold and more power, despite the fact Tyrion cared for her and treated her well. Ugh, I just hate Shae. Just my opinion.

I don't think she deserved to die. It made me so mad, all that she said in her testimony, but my goodness, for him to kill her like that... absolutely heartbreaking. And I think it will haunt him for the rest of his life.

[The Greatmatt]

Cat refusing to let Jon stay

Sansa not telling the truth about Nymeria attack Joffrey.

Lysa’s treatment of Tyrion and the realization of her role in setting events in motion irritate me to know end.

Joffrey showing Sansa the severed heads. It’s at this point when Sansa stopped annoying me and I started really pulling for her.

Slynt & Thorne treating Jon as a traitor

Cat making one “correction” to Robb’s military plan which was crucial to ruining the Starks and was frankly pretty obvious

Robb getting married. Idiot.

Tywin & Cersei’s extreme selfishness

Jorah for still sending Varys messages after the AGOT without telling Dany. Idiot. I get that it’s tough to know how to deal with the situation, but once an attempt has been made on her life, you need to decided whether you are 100% for Dany or not, and if you are, you simply cannot keep informing on her without her permission.

Have to admit: Ned’s beheading and the Red Wedding didn’t make me mad. They made me think “Oh my god” this is more interesting than I though.

[-jelena-]

This thread is about moments that made you angry. I didn't take it to mean worst or most evil things that have happened in Westeros. And I am entitled to my opinion without having someone imply a questioning of my 'moral standards'.

Well, my opinion is that those people who see Cat as worst person in Westeros have questionable moral standards. I wasn't speaking about you specifically.

Yes, how Catelyn acted regarding Arya and Sansa irritated me. There is even a line in CoT where she says something like maybe Robb isn't even wrong for not wanting to exchange the Kingslayer for Arya and Sansa - they are just two mere girls, whereas he is the Kingslayer.

1. From political and strategical position it was wrong move. The Lanisters, the Starks and their vassals admitted the very same thing.

2. So, Robb also refused to save his sisters with that exchange. But I don't see you bashing at him about that?

3. Have you maybe skipped the part where Cat risked everything by releasing Jaime in order to save her daughters?

Re: Jon and almost excusing Catelyn's behaviour by saying 'people are not robots' - yeah well obviously. Doesn't make her actions there any less disgusting. And of course Tywin is a worse parent (that goes without saying lol), but the thing with Catelyn is she thinks she is a fantastic parent and I don't remember many sections of the book where she even for a moment really felt remorse for how she treated Jon. This shows a nasty underside to her character that shouldn't be excused. She is a mother after all, so surely she should understand that he was just a boy, it was not his fault if he were Ned's bastard son? She should look at her own children and think oh, what if someone ever treated them how I treat Jon, but she doesn't. And I don't really find her vicious attitude that understandable - it is her own choice. Not everyone would have reacted that way and hated Jon from the moment he arrived as a small babe, constantly, without change. And she hated/resented him because of pure jealousy.

That said, yes Ned should have told her the real deal (if he isn't his bastard son) and tried to put a stop to her behaviour.

Anyway, I never said 'hate' when talking about Catelyn. Those things above just infuriated me. And it's my opinion.

Well, my opinion is that people who have zero understanding for Cat's behavior have never been in the similar position and don't even try to comprehend her feelings. I guess people are expected to behave 100% rationale in every single situation and bring only perfect decisions no matter what. Because, feelings, heart and human nature have such a zero impact in human life. I think why I understand now why are so unbelievably perfect characters like Jon so much loved.

Was Cat maybe physically abusing Jon? Was she ever starving him to death, forbade him to spend time with her children or something similar? Not to mention that Jon constantly whines during the course of the first book but he doesn't really mention Cat during his whining. And not to mention that you can not look at a bastard from Westeros and a bastard from the 21st century in the same light and apply the same standards on them. Bastards from Westeros are more than a simple "my husband cheated on me" thing. Just ask the Targs about that.

TBH, I'm sick all of this "it should've been you" melodramatizing. Jon fans just inflate the whole thing. It seems to me it doesn't really matter here what Cat said but to whom she said it. To our big fantasy hero, of course.

[Ice Eyes]

Cat's treatment of Jon is the result of her misplaced anger with Ned, and in her eyes Jon is a living embodiment of her husband's unfaithfulness to her. Jon himself has done nothing to warrant the way she treats him, and Cat's actions aren't meant to be condoned but no character is without flaw.

It's also necessary to Jon's story to make him leave. If she let him stay at Winterfell, he probably wouldn't have been as eager to find a home on the Wall and would have gone to war with Robb only to be murdered at the Red Wedding.

Now, moments that really make me angry: Walder Frey's laugh.

[Azerate]

-Arya and Sansa losing their dire wolves

-When Tywin was considered a victor in KL when it was all tyrion's doing

-Robb's death

-Jon leaving Ygritte & coming back to nights watch

-Theon's betrayal

[Lady Viscera]

Most of the things that angered me have been mentioned already, but one of the things that really got up my nose was Shae's callous attitude towards Lollys after her rape.

Shae to Tyrion from CoK:

"She's asleep. Sleep's all she ever wants to do, the great cow. She sleeps and she eats. Sometimes she falls asleep while she's eating. The food falls under the blankets and she rolls in it, and I have to clean her." She made made a disgusted face. "All they did was fuck her."

"Her mother says she's sick."

"She has a baby in her belly, that's all."

:tantrum:

[Knight of Ashes]

Thinking I have to read Victarrion's chapters irks me.

So I don't. (or just skim very quickly)

[PrinceOfWales]

There are sooo many moments I could whine about but I've gone for the one that's currently on my mind:

I'm Ned's biggest fan but there is no excuse, other than for the sake of the story, for not sending Sansa and Arya away from King's Landing sooner. If there is even a hint that things could get messy you would send your loved ones to safety. That's something I'm sure Ned would have done if he was actually a real person. Sometimes you just gotta except that things are there to make it more interesting...but I'm just saying.

Every time Sansa or Arya are in danger or are being threatened/mistreated, feeling lost or scared, I'm practically screaming at Ned in my head.

[Hell_Awaits]

-Robb sending Theon away. Because you know how trustworthy hostages are when letting loose...

-Sansa and Arya losing their direwolves.

-Robb marrying that Westerling wench, pissing all over his agreement with Lord Frey.

-Ned telling Cersei to leave KL before he talks with Robert. How innocent.

-Every move that Dany makes while playing "let's free all the slaves and live together happily ever after".

-Khal Drogo dying.

-The Red Wedding. Buggering treacherous bastards.

-Prince Oberyn being killed. He could have just kept his distance and rejoice on the sight of his foe dying.

-Theon's treason. Stupid little bitch.

-Winterfell burned and its people killed.

[The King in the South]

People that hate on Dany. (Hate is fine, all characters need some, but she gets wayyyyyyy too much) So many people forget that she's probably suffered more than anybody else in this series. (Okay maybe Tysha or somebody, but among main characters) I'm not going to list it, try and use your brains. Top it off, she's stil a kid/teenager when all of this happens, has enourmous responsibility, and is overall trying to be a good person and help people. Yes she has flaws, but so does every other god damn character in this series. Try and picture yourself in her situations.

People that worship Bronn and then rip on on other evil sellswords/bad guys. Bronn is no better.

I have a dozen others, maybe I'll ad them later.

Ahh damnit, this is about the books, not people who read the books. Oh well, the above still piss me off.

The amount of close calls certain characters have, but then they always survive.

The entire storyline of Arya.

The ratio of highborn men to highborn women.

Tyrion's random super gymnastic powers in book 1, and then subsequent loss of them in later books.

[brashcandy]

People that hate on Dany. (Hate is fine, all characters need some, but she gets wayyyyyyy too much) So many people forget that she's probably suffered more than anybody else in this series. (Okay maybe Tysha or somebody, but among main characters) I'm not going to list it, try and use your brains. Top it off, she's stil a kid/teenager when all of this happens, has enourmous responsibility, and is overall trying to be a good person and help people. Yes she has flaws, but so does every other god damn character in this series. Try and picture yourself in her situations.

People that worship Bronn and then rip on on other evil sellswords/bad guys. Bronn is no better.

I have a dozen others, maybe I'll ad them later.

Ahh damnit, this is about the books, not people who read the books. Oh well, the above still piss me off.

The amount of close calls certain characters have, but then they always survive.

The entire storyline of Arya.

The ratio of highborn men to highborn women.

Tyrion's random super gymnastic powers in book 1, and then subsequent loss of them in later books.

:agree: on everything. The Dany hate is excessive and irrational.

[Alexia]

The Dany hate is ridiculously over the top, but I strongly disagree that she's suffered more than any other character in the books.

Exhibit A: Theon Greyjoy

Exhibit B: Sansa Stark

Exhibit C: Arya Stark

Exhibit D: Brandon Stark

She's suffered, to be sure, but certainly not more than any main character, let alone the secondary POVs.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Sansa getting Lady killed, Sansa telling Cersei about his father's plan.

Catelyn telling Jon that it should have been him.

Ygritte everytime she opens her mouth to say that stupid catch phrase.

Ned not telling Jon the truth about his mother before losing his head. Ned telling Cersei aabout his plan ¬¬'

Arya no asking about Jon when she met Sam in Braavos.

Robb marrying Jeyne.

Edmure being Edmure.

Joffrey just existing.

Daenerys monologue, not impressed.

The mountain everytime i remember the way Elia and her kids were killed.

[mediocre cheese]

The death of the mountain. A man of wit, refinement and chivalry, valiantly putting his life at risk in service of queen and murdered king, only to be killed by vile poison from a man he defeated in a fair fight.

Hopefully robert strong will continue his legacy.