More exercise and fitness.

[Stego]

I've seen people talk about when you "should" do cardio vs lifting.

I don't mean to bang a drum, but all of this seems so archaic to me now. 'Cardio' versus 'weights' versus (Heinlein help me) 'ab routines.'

Any workout that does not include core work is useless athletically. Any workout that does not raise your heart rate substantially is not intense enough to bother with. (This doesn't need to be CrossFit -- anyone who has done heavy squatting knows it is 'cardio' and 'core' just as much as 'weights,')

I firmly believe you should do all of those things at once. And then do them all at once the next day. And the next day.

Yesterday I did heavy front squats for a set of 3 (ascending; I made it to 365), burpees, a set of six, and chest-to-bar pullups a set of nine, as fast as possible for 7 sets. Cardio, core, weights.

[Rubies & Jade]

I don't mean to bang a drum, but all of this seems so archaic to me now. 'Cardio' versus 'weights' versus (Heinlein help me) 'ab routines.'

Any workout that does not include core work is useless athletically. ...

well, I was kinda generalizing, just answering Frosty's question... I don't totally disagree (or agree) with you. I do a bunch of running first to wake up and then I do a bunch of other stuff. generally speaking. I do get my heartrate up but probably not in the way you're talking about. but I'm getting good results so its working for me.

and honestly, these one size fits all kinda pronouncements are kinda archaic too. I remember a couple of years ago when you were saying anything but powerlifting is useless. I'm all for crossfit, it sounds like a good deal. I can't afford a crossfit gym/class so I incorporate what I know of it best I can. I also know if I was there alone and doing a fast routine with a weighted bar that early in the morning I have a big potential for hurting myself. I know my body better than anyway, so I do what I can, ya know?

[cjfshaw]

Hm, weird, it looks like I have no problem replying with Chrome at work.

[Rubies & Jade]

Hm, weird, it looks like I have no problem replying with Chrome at work.

I have this problem a lot between my desktop and my laptop. Its not the browsers exactly, I think it has something to do with plug-ins and updates. I find the problem comes and goes, and is specific to the computer more than the browser. If you ever have any ideas about it, let me know!

[Minaku]

First day of real Crossfit today. Not bad. Need to pull more on cleans and DEFINITELY more on deadlifts.

[Stego]

and honestly, these one size fits all kinda pronouncements are kinda archaic too.

Please don't misunderstand me... there is NEVER a one size fits all approach. That's sort of what I'm saying. (And I never said that about powerlifting, but I understand how you could feel that way.)

What I am saying is that this is about fitness, right? Wellness and well-being? If so, compound movements are more helpful. Compound movements that start at the core are how you get fitter.

Of course running is great. As is jumping, swimming, rowing, dancing, yoga, gymnastics, weightlifting, power lifting, and countless other functional exercises. The ideal fitness regimen includes all of these things, in my opinion. What it does not include is crunches and barbell curls and a whole lot of 70's inspired 'gym science.'

[Stego]

First day of real Crossfit today. Not bad. Need to pull more on cleans and DEFINITELY more on deadlifts.

Everyone starts somewhere, Mina. The number doesn't mean all that much. What truly matters is ensuring that you are consistently improving.

[Liffguard]

What I am saying is that this is about fitness, right? Wellness and well-being? If so, compound movements are more helpful. Compound movements that start at the core are how you get fitter.

This reminds of one of the main points made by Dan John again and again. Success in sport, exercise and fitness is about movements, not muscles. So, whilst it is true that a squat or a deadlift will work the quads, glutes and lower back it is also pretty much irrelevant. What is important is that the squat is an important movement to learn and train because the principles behind it apply to so many other movements for both sport and everyday life. Having the strongest quads in the world is useless without being able to apply those quads to movements.

I think that what most people believe about resistance training has come from bodybuilding. For a bodybuilder it makes sense to specifically work the biceps rather than a pulling movement because he will explicitly be judged in competition on the quality of his biceps (amongst other things). This is not true for an athlete, or for anyone interested in being fit. Saying that squats are important because they build certain muscles is - for anyone other than a bodybuilder - getting it backwards. Rather, the muscles are important because they allow you to squat.

[Rubies & Jade]

yup, Stego~ agreed. that was more clear that what I thought you to say the first time around. Although I'm not totally sure what the major differences is between "weightlifting" and "barbell curls" but I'm not sure it matters. surely anything is better than sitting on the couch, and compound movements in all sorts of combinations will do the job.

Liffguard, you make a good point too!

[Minaku]

Everyone starts somewhere, Mina. The number doesn't mean all that much. What truly matters is ensuring that you are consistently improving.

Nah Stego, it just meant that the weights were too light for me and I wasn't working hard enough. I was only pulling 55. For deadlifts I'm fairly sure I can double that and not have any trouble.

[Stego]

Although I'm not totally sure what the major differences is between "weightlifting" and "barbell curls" but I'm not sure it matters.

It's an interesting differentiation! Weight lifting is the act of lifting weights. Weightlifting is a sport, as in Olympic weightlifting. The clean, the jerk, the snatch.

[RaceBannon42]

Weightlifting is a sport, as in Olympic weightlifting. The clean, the jerk, the snatch.

Its sounds so dirty... ;)

[RaceBannon42]

No idea where I will be working out from now on. Bally's sold out most of there locations to LA Fitness. No info has been given out, and the sale goes thru tommorow scuttlebut is that my gym will be closed since there is a new LA fitness a few blocks away. However last night there was a sign posted saying they would be closed at 5pm on the 30th but would be open at the normal time on the 1st. I wish the would just tell is whats going on. Wil my membership just transfer? Will they jack up my rates? Are there going to be 2 gyms worth of people crammed into one gym now? The only reason I like Bally's is because its generally not that busy and its not that expensive. The gym was old and dirty and run down, but I could get in and out and rarely needed to wait for equipment. I guess I'll hit the gym tonight since it will be closed Wednesday. I'll see what the status is on Thursday...

[Rubies & Jade]

Its sounds so dirty... ;)

lol totally, I thought the same thing. and now of course, I'm curious. what exactly is the distinction? the more complex movement (or full body use) of a deadlift vs a more simple movement of a curl? or just that the weight starts on the ground? is a squat in the former or later category?

I'll admit it, I'm way too scared to do a clean or a snatch. I'm trying to convince myself to at least try a clean. but they freak me out for some reason. I think I need someone there to watch my form and give me moral support for the first time. lol

RaceB, sorry to hear about the gym problems. I hate stuff like that, just went through a gym change myself. sorta screws up your routine. I feel your pain. I hope you don't end up having to pay more!

[Rubies & Jade]

in other news, I've wanted to do nordic hamstring exercises for the longest time but didn't know how to do them without someone holding my feet. someone showed me how to kneel on bosu last week and it works awesomely.

this guy is doing it, but I don't think he's keeping himself straight enough. but you get the idea.

yes, I know that kinda goes against some of what we're talking about above, but I need to engage the backs of my thighs more than the fronts for a while. right now the fronts always take over no matter how low I go in a squat. I'm hoping that this helps.

[Liffguard]

lol totally, I thought the same thing. and now of course, I'm curious. what exactly is the distinction? the more complex movement (or full body use) of a deadlift vs a more simple movement of a curl? or just that the weight starts on the ground? is a squat in the former or later category?

You've got three main weight-bearing sports.

Olympic weightlifting is the clean & jerk and the snatch. It is a test of power and coordination.

Powerlifting is the squat, the deadlift and the bench press. This is more about raw strength, the ability to shift weight (yes I know it's confusing that weightlifting is mostly about power but powerlifting is mostly about weight).

Strongman has lots of different moves, though I don't know enough about the sport to list them. They're generally a combination of picking things ups and moving things from place to place, often awkward and irregular weights.

but I need to engage the backs of my thighs more than the fronts for a while. right now the fronts always take over no matter how low I go in a squat

Have you tried front squats?

[Rubies & Jade]

thanks Liff! that does help make some of this more clear. and I'm leary of heavy coordination stuff just because my balance needs work so maybe it makes sense I worry about some of these things (the first category.)

no! never tried a front squat... I hadn't realized that it would make a difference. but I'll give it a shot. Just from what little I've read about them, it sounds like I should start with a lower weight to what I squat?

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Ripp (or someone in his organisation) is doing a Starting Strength seminar in my town in February. I should suck it up and pay the money: y/y/other?

[Liffguard]

thanks Liff! that does help make some of this more clear. and I'm leary of heavy coordination stuff just because my balance needs work so maybe it makes sense I worry about some of these things (the first category.)

The olympic lifts aren't anything to be leary of, but they aren't something anyone can just jump into. They're very technique-intensive and take quite a long time to learn. I'd advise checking them out, but you need to get proper instruction and start with very light weights.

no! never tried a front squat... I hadn't realized that it would make a difference. but I'll give it a shot. Just from what little I've read about them, it sounds like I should start with a lower weight to what I squat?

Yep, definitely much lower weight with a front squat than a back squat. I'd recommend using the clean grip if you can, but otherwise a crossover grip is fine. Remember that your upper-body will be much more upright for a front squat than a back squat.

Ripp (or someone in his organisation) is doing a Starting Strength seminar in my town in February. I should suck it up and pay the money: y/y/other?

I'd say yes, but I don't know how much he's charging.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

When I looked it's about $800 for a 2.5 day session, but you can pay in installments. If I had kept up the training from February I'd be more excited, but I can start again now and get a good base in by the end of Feb.