ZacharyB Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I hope she really does. :). However, I disagree with you, on the luck element. He moved his pieces into place and cornered the Lords of the Vale into a position where the only honorable thing which was left to them was to give him the benefit of the doubt. LF forces his opponents to act like they do. However, he does admit to Sansa that there are times when the pieces are too obstinate to do what they are supposed to do, so then you have to come up with another plan. Therefore, if they had not done as he expected he would keep planning other things until he makes sure they do what they are supposed to do. I'd assume LF had a few back up plans in that situation, I s'pose. Hopefully anyway. There were still plenty of things that could have gone wrong. I know :) I didn't mean to imply that he's God, that irks me too. All plans involve luck though, some more than others. LF did get lucky that his planned worked, and I think he himself realises this too. But his plan was fundamentally based on a knowledge of human nature, and he exploits it admirably. I won't deny that. LF's move in the Vale wasn't something Cersei could have pulled off, as you guys said earlier. :P Ok, you could say that. But there is a difference between luck you create and luck that falls into your lap. Well, all luck falls into your lap essentially but I see your point. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 You are right. However, he does manage to get most of what he wants. He is truly a master. I think he is much more dangerous than Varys. I can't wait to see Varys VS LF. It's up in the air about who's better than who atm. But if LF's plans for Sansa come to fruition (thus giving LF a good chunk of the realm) and Aegon gains momentum, and Dany comes to his side (not sure if that'll happen) it would be an epic fight. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I'd assume LF had a few back up plans in that situation, I s'pose. Hopefully anyway. There were still plenty of things that could have gone wrong. I won't deny that. LF's move in the Vale wasn't something Cersei could have pulled off, as you guys said earlier. :P Well, all luck falls into your lap essentially but I see your point. ;) You are right though in essence. The entire game of thrones I think depends to some extent on luck, after you have laid the strategy and moved all the pieces into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I can't wait to see Varys VS LF. It's up in the air about who's better than who atm. But if LF's plans for Sansa come to fruition (thus giving LF a good chunk of the realm) and Aegon gains momentum, and Dany comes to his side (not sure if that'll happen) it would be an epic fight. :) I am getting chills just imagining it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ashes Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 You are right. However, he does manage to get most of what he wants. He is truly a master. I think he is much more dangerous than Varys. I dunno about Varys but I was just reading the Sansa/Alayne chapters today and couldn't help but be scared of the thought that there may be people out there in Real Life who are as clever and dangerous as Littlefinger. BTW rereading the Sansa chapters along with Brienne's gave me a new appreciation for AFfC. Edit: IV! Who knew unpopular opinions could be so popular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I dunno about Varys but I was just reading the Sansa/Alayne chapters today and couldn't help but be scared of the thought that there may be people out there in Real Life who are as clever and dangerous as Littlefinger. BTW rereading the Sansa chapters along with Brienne's gave me a new appreciation for AFfC. It's one thing to admire LF in the book, but I would hate to have someone like that in real life. I know that I would be just a piece so I really don't like that line of thought. Btw, I think Varys is very dangerous too but I find LF scarier. I don't know why, it's just a feeling I have. Actually I am rereading AFFC too and I am surprised at how much I am enjoying it now. I think it is a really good book. Btw, did you finally fix you post editor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 I wonder how LF would have operated with Aegon as his pawn - would he have been more mindful of how unpredictable young boys can be? I wonder if this will be the downfall of Varys and Illyrio BTW - My crackpot is that LF will hedge his bets on Dany, and keep the Vale and the North independent until she arrives. I even think he may be in cahoots with Euron and the plan to steal a dragon :) But there's one flaw in LF's plans for Sansa though, something he would have never predicted and seems to have no knowledge of: the Hound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ashes Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Actually I am rereading AFFC too and I am surprised at how much I am enjoying it now. I think it is a really good book. Btw, did you finally fix you post editor? It fixed itself but thanks for asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I wonder how LF would have operated with Aegon as his pawn - would he have been more mindful of how unpredictable young boys can be? I wonder if this will be the downfall of Varys and Illyrio BTW - My crackpot is that LF will hedge his bets on Dany, and keep the Vale and the North independent until she arrives. I even think he may be in cahoots with Euron and the plan to steal a dragon :) But there's one flaw in LF's plans for Sansa though, something he would have never predicted and seems to have no knowledge of: the Hound. He also doesn't know (I don't believe anyway) that Bran/Rickon are still alive. Davos finding Rickon will be a serious wrench in LF's plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I wonder how LF would have operated with Aegon as his pawn - would he have been more mindful of how unpredictable young boys can be? I wonder if this will be the downfall of Varys and Illyrio BTW - My crackpot is that LF will hedge his bets on Dany, and keep the Vale and the North independent until she arrives. I even think he may be in cahoots with Euron and the plan to steal a dragon :) But there's one flaw in LF's plans for Sansa though, something he would have never predicted and seems to have no knowledge of: the Hound. I think he would have. Remember how neatly he dealt with Joff who was as unpredictable as unpredictable can get! I am intrigued by your theory, can you expand further especially about Euron? I really hope we see more of the Hound. I miss his character. It fixed itself but thanks for asking. Oh good, because Ran said that Chrome works as well in that post. Keep that in mind if it plays up again :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 He also doesn't know (I don't believe anyway) that Bran/Rickon are still alive. Davos finding Rickon will be a serious wrench in LF's plans.& even if that takes a while Theon made it to Stannis' camp. All he has to do is talk and everyone will know that the boys are alive. & the Northmen could declare for Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICE CROW Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 It's one thing to admire LF in the book, but I would hate to have someone like that in real life. I know that I would be just a piece so I really don't like that line of thought. Btw, I think Varys is very dangerous too but I find LF scarier. I don't know why, it's just a feeling I have. If i came across someone like that in real life, i wouldn't be doing all the nice word fighting everyone does with him. I would beat his ass down, and if i caught even the slightest thought of him being treacherous, or if i saw him smile a way i didn't like. Heads, Spikes, Walls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think he would have. Remember how neatly he dealt with Joff who was as unpredictable as unpredictable can get! Good point!! I am intrigued by your theory, can you expand further especially about Euron? It was a crackpot that I developed with someone else on another thread and to be honest it came from a series of discussion that I can no longer recall! :) The gist of it though was that LF and Euron seem to be in much the same line of business, perhaps Euron was even supplying LF with women for his brothels. Plus the idea that LF can't have invested all his resources in and around KL and Westeros proper. He has to know of this Dragon Queen and his whole appearance of being outsmarted in a bigger way by Varys is just that, an illusion.. It's a real crackpot though, as we don't have any real link between LF and the Iron Islands. I really hope we see more of the Hound. I miss his character. Me too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 If i came across someone like that in real life, i wouldn't be doing all the nice word fighting everyone does with him. I would beat his ass down, and if i caught even the slightest thought of him being treacherous, or if i saw him smile a way i didn't like. Heads, Spikes, Walls :lol: ...I guess that is the only way to deal with the likes of LF! I love the "Heads, Spikes, Walls"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 He also doesn't know (I don't believe anyway) that Bran/Rickon are still alive. Davos finding Rickon will be a serious wrench in LF's plans. You think LF will let Rickon Stark stand in his way :) he'll just bring more poison North if it comes to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Good point!! It was a crackpot that I developed with someone else on another thread and to be honest it came from a series of discussion that I can no longer recall! :) The gist of it though was that LF and Euron seem to be in much the same line of business, perhaps Euron was even supplying LF with women for his brothels. Plus the idea that LF can't have invested all his resources in and around KL and Westeros proper. He has to know of this Dragon Queen and his whole appearance of being outsmarted in a bigger way by Varys is just that, an illusion.. It's a real crackpot though, as we don't have any real link between LF and the Iron Islands. Information is very important in the game so I can't believe that LF would not have all sorts of information that would change how he plays. I really think he knows about Dany too. I don't think anything is out of the realm of possibility in GRRM's world so a Euron/LF connection is not impossible. I would love it actually. LF uses the Lanisters to bring down the Starks, the Tyrells to bring down the Lanisters, the Greyjoys to bring down the Tyrells. It's rich, I hope it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 You think LF will let Rickon Stark stand in his way :) he'll just bring more poison North if it comes to that. Nooooo! Not baby Rickon. I love him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 He won't be able to kill the actual heir Bran. 1. He doesn't know where he is. 2. He'd become a monster like Coldhands or just a plain wight before he's able to. The Northern lords seem to want Rickon but the Northern clans have been looking for Bran at the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 You think LF will let Rickon Stark stand in his way :) he'll just bring more poison North if it comes to that. Rickon, Wyman Manderly, Stannis, the rest of the North... :P I'm sure LF would find some way around it. :L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ashes Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 :lol: ...I guess that is the only way to deal with the likes of LF! I love the "Heads, Spikes, Walls"! Tywin and Tyrion were thinking they may have to deal with Joff's counselors that way. I was hoping to have seen more matching of wits between Tyrion and LF but whoever was behind Mandon Moore's attack disrupted that. Aside: One thing I found funny though, in AGoT, Jaime had a sense of how ambitious LF was when he told Cersei he'd rather have Ned as an enemy than LF. In AFfC, Jaime thought of Baelish as pretty much harmless . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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