Hound's She-wolf Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 yeah.. compared to the Lannisters, the Tyrells ARE a dream.And really, the Tyrells may be just as cut throat as the Lannisters, but we just haven't been given that information yet. If they are, then I will feel bad about harboring a slight hope in the past for a WilSan ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 My reasoning for it might not though :) But here goes: it's really just a sense of unease about the whole family, especially the role that Margaery has been made to play as the sacrificial lamb for all the Tyrell schemes (yes, I've come to see her as being somewhat more of a victim than I previously did).. There is obviously something going on there... otherwise I don't think GRRM would have set it up these hints about the moontea, Marg's virginity and now her upcoming trial. Mace himself seems particularly frantic about it, and even though this is understandable, if he knows that Marg has nothing to hide, why be so worried about it? Again, just a feeling that something is rotten in Highgarden. Marg's close relationship with Loras also highlights that whilst it may not be incest between the two, she could be leaning on him for support... Anyways, just conjecture.. but I wouldn't put anything past Mace, and Craster can't be the only man in Westeros perving on his daughters. Good thinking! I like this even though we have no proof, but I really think something is going on with the Tyrell family. They are too perfect on the outside. If this is true, then I wouldn't be surprised if he also sexually abused Loras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Also the Tyrells have been playing a long game. Even in AGOT they were plotting with Renly to oust Cersei and replace her with Margery. Which does make me think of Margery as a bit of a pawn as well, which I hadn't considered before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tini Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Also the Tyrells have been playing a long game. Even in AGOT they were plotting with Renly to oust Cersei and replace her with Margery. Which does make me think of Margery as a bit of a pawn as well, which I hadn't considered before. Margaery is less of a pawn than her male relatives. She knew more about the Queen of Thorn's activities than they ever suspected. Both of them just played along with her father's wishes. She wasnt't averse to becoming queen, but as Littlefinger stated: she didn't have to become queen to King Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagganaro Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Margaery is less of a pawn than her male relatives. She knew more about the Queen of Thorn's activities than they ever suspected. Both of them just played along with her father's wishes. She wasnt't averse to becoming queen, but as Littlefinger stated: she didn't have to become queen to King Joffrey. I don't know about this...It seems like the males are the ones controlling everything in the Tyrell family, even if Olenna is the smart and dangerous one. She complains to Sansa in ASOS about Mace and how the only reason they are in this position is because "Lord Puff Fish" (hilarious) wanted to be a king even though the Tyrells have no right to Kingship. This in the middle of her whole hilarious tirade about wishing she beat Mace more with a spoon when he was younger and telling Sansa she should do the same. So it seems like Mace is calling the shots and the women are kind of forced to go along with it, even though Olenna is really the smart one who is dealing with the actual details of playing the Game of Thrones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Good thinking! I like this even though we have no proof, but I really think something is going on with the Tyrell family. They are too perfect on the outside. If this is true, then I wouldn't be surprised if he also sexually abused Loras. I know... no clear cut proof, but definitely a feeling about that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I know... no clear cut proof, but definitely a feeling about that man. Yeah, he and all the Tyrells don't sit well with me. They are sooooo flowery,...therefore, something must be wrong. The perfume of the roses must be covering some nasty stench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I was under the impression that they got interested in her because the marriage wasn't consumated, meaning it could be legally annulled and she could be snuck out of KL and married to Willas should anything happen to Tyrion, such as being convicted of murdering his nephew.They weren't worried about annulling it; they wanted to frame Tyrion for Joffrey's death the whole time so he would have died and freed up Sansa. If they were planning to take her anyway after that happened, they would have had the girls maintain friendships with Sansa and comfort her. They only became interested in getting her back after Tyrion's death when the rumors that she was still a virgin started floating around -- and in my book, their treatment of her is about the same as Lysa's, with a little more social finesse on top. I had always assumed the moon tea was for one of her cousins, but then it never made sense to me why the Queen (and not one of her cousins) would be asking for moon tea. No matter who the tea was for it would have been better to have someone else ask for it so as not to embarrass Margaery.It was for Elinor, I am sure of it. She had her squire that she was going to marry when he became a knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many and More Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Yeah, he and all the Tyrells don't sit well with me. They are sooooo flowery,...therefore, something must be wrong. The perfume of the roses must be covering some nasty stench. Agreed. There's just something subtly off about the whole family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raksha the Demon Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Very true about the Mountain and company, but Randall Tarly is fairly devastating in his campaigns. The Tyrells are politically ruthless. Switching from Renly to Joff despite knowing he was a bastard, then indirectly involving Sansa in the murder of Joff and getting Tyrion falsely accused in the process. (Although that was set up by LF more than them). Also they are generally power grabbing and slightly smarmy. Eh....and I don't know something about them just grates on me (a bit like Julia Roberts). There is no obvious reason, I'm just not fond of them. We haven't met Willas Tyrell - interesting that he is not married yet. If he can walk at all and father children, as the heir to Highgarden, you'd think he'd be married by now. One wonders if he's an idiot (but doesn't he occasionally correspond with Oberyn?) or gay? But Littlefinger makes it a point to disparage him to Sansa; so maybe Willas wasn't so bad and could have made her a good husband. Garlan Tyrell seemed an interesting character, someone who seemed to know what was going on but had some compassion - he actually was pleasant to Sansa on her wedding night, and tried to tell her that Tyrion would make her a much better husband than Loras (and in certain respects that is quite true). But I too really find it disgusting and morally reprehensible that the Tyrells made Sansa an unwitting accomplice to Joffrey's murder. Hadn't she been through enough? They could just have easily used a younger cousin of Margaery, I think there was a ten-year-old in her retinue, and just made sure the kid wore the hairnet until the Queen of Thorns could take the stone off it. Or just have Olenna herself bring the poison in as a small stone in her hand; why bother with a hairnet which is larger and harder to hide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Margaery is less of a pawn than her male relatives. She knew more about the Queen of Thorn's activities than they ever suspected. Both of them just played along with her father's wishes. She wasnt't averse to becoming queen, but as Littlefinger stated: she didn't have to become queen to King Joffrey. Back in GOT they were trying to marry her to Robert. There was that whole thing when Renly was asking if Margery's portrait looked like Lyanna. I wonder if they would have killed Robert off if he had treated Margery like he treated Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemonraven Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Yeah, he and all the Tyrells don't sit well with me. They are sooooo flowery,...therefore, something must be wrong. The perfume of the roses must be covering some nasty stench.Probably to divert all suspicion away from them: Sansa is the daughter of a known traitor, married to Tyrion, this monster Imp that everyone hates. By making sure that Sansa and Tyrion were "obviously" the murderers, nobody would ever doubt the Tyrells. I think that what is wrong with this House has already come to light, albeit in a subtle manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Also they hate the Martells and as the Red Viper said, if it hadn't been for Cersei going ape at Tyrion, he may have been accused. I think there were several good ways in which it could have ended for the Tyrells: the Tyrion and Sansa accused option was just the one Littlefinger favoured and spent the time orchestrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 previously did).. There is obviously something going on there... otherwise I don't think GRRM would have set it up these hints about the moontea, Marg's virginity and now her upcoming trial. Mace himself seems particularly frantic about it, and even though this is understandable, if he knows that Marg has nothing to hide, why be so worried about it? Maybe because he isn't four years old and knows already that justice in Westeros is a sad joke.Why would he worry about his daughter being accused of a capital offense if he hadn't fucked her? Why, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Back in GOT they were trying to marry her to Robert. There was that whole thing when Renly was asking if Margery's portrait looked like Lyanna. I wonder if they would have killed Robert off if he had treated Margery like he treated Cersei. Wait, what? The last time Robert was single, Margaery was a couple months old at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 About the moontea, I think it was part of some sort of plot. When Cersei informs Margaery about Loras being on his deathbed, Margaery says that she is going to send her own maester to tend him. So my question is, if she has her own maester with her, why does she go to Pycelle for her moontea? Everyone knows that Pycelle is a 100% Lannister man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oba Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Wait, what? The last time Robert was single, Margaery was a couple months old at most. Robert wasn't single, but Renly and Loras were planning on getting Robert to put aside Cersei and marry Margaery. Arya overhears Varys and Illyrio discussing it (although she didn't know who they were or what they were talking about) in Book 1 and Stannis remarks on it when he and Renly have their parley in Book 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verboten Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Wait, what? The last time Robert was single, Margaery was a couple months old at most.They were planning on having Robert get rid of Cersei through some form of Westerosi divorce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Wait, what? The last time Robert was single, Margaery was a couple months old at most. Jon Arryn and Stannis were looking into the incest and were thinking of revealing it and having Robert marry Margery once Cersei was no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oba Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Jon Arryn and Stannis were looking into the incest and were thinking of revealing it and having Robert marry Margery once Cersei was no more. It was Renly and Loras. Stannis brings it up during their parley, and makes it clear that it was Renly's idea. Jon Arryn and Stannis were looking into the incest, but there's nothing to indicate they were planning on having Robert marry Margaery. Stannis and Renly in Book 2: Sighing, Renly half turned in the saddle. "What am I to do with this brother of mine, Brienne? He refuses my peach, he refuses my castle, he even shunned my wedding . . .""We both know your wedding was a mummer's farce. A year ago you were scheming to make the girl one of Robert's whores.""A year ago I was scheming to make the girl Robert's queen," Renly said, "but what does it matter? The boar got Robert and I got Margaery. You'll be pleased to know she came to me a maid.""In your bed she's like to die that way." And Varys (to Illyrio) in Book 1: "If he does not bestir himself soon, it may be too late," the stout man in the steel cap said. "This is no longer a game for two players, if ever it was. Stannis Baratheon and Lysa Arryn have fled beyond my reach, and the whispers say they are gathering swords around them. The Knight of Flowers writes Highgarden, urging his lord father to send his sister to court. The girl is a maid of fourteen, sweet and beautiful and tractable, and Lord Renly and Ser Loras intend that Robert should bed her, wed her, and make a new queen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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