Eddard’s mother, aka ‘Lady Stark’

[Ser Tomas Yellowsnow]

The hint there is a bronze sickle. The First Men used bronze weapons, I'm guessing iron didn't end up in circulation until the Andals turned up. The (sacrifice? Execution?) may have taken place in the earliest days of Winterfell.

My guess whould be a blood sacrifice, but definelty not Lady Stoneheart.

[kissdbyfire]

The pregnant woman in the vision is Rickard's mother, who believes she was wronged by the Targaryens in some way - and the resultant bad blood keeps the two houses apart a generation later, when Rhaegar needs a bride. Rickard "avenges" his mother by building his alliances with the other Great Houses, posing a threat to the Targaryens and feeding Aerys' paranoia, especially when Rhaegar attends a tourney with his cadre of loyal lordlings and lavishes attention on a Stark. In this wild speculation, either Rickard's mother is herself a Targaryen who married Edwyle, or the connection comes a generation further back with Edwyle's mother.

Wait... Maybe I'm not getting this right - happens more often than I would like to admit. But if the woman heavy with child is Rickard’s mother or grandmother and a Targaryen, would she have been wronged by her own family?

[kissdbyfire]

My guess whould be a blood sacrifice, but definelty not Lady Stoneheart.

But the woman with the sickle is not the pregnant woman. I think the exececution/sacrifice happened much earlier in time.

[kissdbyfire]

I think that from his mother s side Ned is from the North, maybe beyond the wall. That could explain the super power of Bran and the link between the Stark kids and their worlf, it s known that the stark lineage could possess warging abilities, but it didnt manifest for a long time, so why now ? Maybe because the Stark kids are closer by blood to the first men/people beyond the wall who do warging stuff by Ned s mother side.

Yeah, I keep going back to something like that. Maybe it's just because I love the whole warging thing, and love the direwolves even more. So it may be wishful thinking. And I think it would be because of the CotF, not the First Men. :dunno:

[SirCharles of HouseBarkley]

I read in another topic here, but I forget which one, where someone made a case that Bloodraven's power's were so strong because of his mixture of Targaryen and Blackwood (First Men) blood. The Blackwood family follow the Old Gods, so I assume that Bloodraven was raised to follow the Old Gods. The Old Gods' influence over whatever power is in the Targ blood enhanced his abilities.

I think that the same would be true for the Starks. If they have Targ blood it would act as a catalyst for the Old Gods to enhance their powers. It should, theoretically, have been more evident in the older generations since the blood would have had more Targ purity. But the only older Stark that we know anything about is Eddard and he left us with more questions than answers. The abilities could have passed him by, be never had any good bond with an animal, or he didn't try to embrace or hone the skills and they simply went away.

I had always assumed that the hatching of the dragons had been the big push that had let the magic come back into the world. But perhaps there was some other spark for the return and both the warging and hatching were results.

I know that warging is more common north of the wall, but the free folks seam to be more accepting and connected to the old ways. That connection would make warging abilities easier for them.

[Galen M]

Benjen is, if I'm not mistaken, 7 years younger than Ned, so she was alive at least until when he was 7. He also only went to the Vale at the age of 9.

More like 4-5 years. At Harrenhal, Ned was 18 or so, and 2 years later BenJen took the black. BenJen must have been at least 14, probably closer to 16 at that point.

[blackseer]

More like 4-5 years. At Harrenhal, Ned was 18 or so, and 2 years later BenJen took the black. BenJen must have been at least 14, probably closer to 16 at that point.

Is it confirmed that Benjen took the black right after the war ended?

[Winterfell is Burning]

Is it confirmed that Benjen took the black right after the war ended?

It isn't.

Lyanna was older than Benjen, and Lyanna was 5 years younger than Ned. That makes Ned at least 6 older than Benjen.

[kissdbyfire]

Is it confirmed that Benjen took the black right after the war ended?

I'm not too sure, but if Benjen took the black right after the war, he would have been around 14. It seems a bit too young. I just read the bit in AGoT where Benjen and Jon talk during the feast for Robert, and when Jon asks Benjen to take him to the Night's Watch Benjen says he is too young; Jon is 14. I've been trying to find a more exact date for when this would have happened, no joy so far. Is this known?

[Whatever]

It isn't.

Lyanna was older than Benjen, and Lyanna was 5 years younger than Ned. That makes Ned at least 6 older than Benjen.

5? I'll say not even 4 - she was 16 when she died, and Ned was 20.

[Galen M]

Is it confirmed that Benjen took the black right after the war ended?

It isn't.

Lyanna was older than Benjen, and Lyanna was 5 years younger than Ned. That makes Ned at least 6 older than Benjen.

(Courtesy of Ursa)

I found a couple of SSM's that answer part of the question:

6) When, specifically, did Benjen join the NW? Was it a couple of years after Ned returned, or immediately?

It was within a few months of Ned's returning. The reason being that there always was a Stark at Winterfell, so he had to stay there until Ned returned. GRRM refused to say the reason why Benjen had to join the NW.

This one is probably trivial, but when did Benjen join the Watch? Right after the war against the Targaryens, more or less?

Pretty much, yes. Probably around about the time Ned returned from the south and Catelyn and Robb and Jon took up residence.

Anyway, "Whatever is correct about the age difference of Lyanna and Ned. He was 18 at Harrenhal.

[Winterfell is Burning]

5? I'll say not even 4 - she was 16 when she died, and Ned was 20.

He was 21, same age as Robert.

[kissdbyfire]

Couldn't he have been 20 or 21 since we don't have a DoB? Do we know for sure anything other than that he is 35 in the beginning of AGoT?

[Night's Scotch]

if those are the words used then, "better claim" suggests that Ned at least had some claim to the throne but I think if he and Robert were that closely related then it would be mentioned, as to Rickard's southern ambitions, I don't really think they existed as like Ned he's probably going to be more inclined to stay in the North, also I think Ned's sense of honour would be inherited from his father so, Rickard wanting "more" seems unlikely.

Ned's claim would have been by conquest. His bannermen made up a large part of the army, he was the one to break the siege of Storm's End, and he was the first of the three main rebel leaders (Robert, Ned, Jon Arryn) to enter king's Landing. Also Lyanna may have been betrothed to Robert, but she was still a Stark, as were Rickard and Brandon. The Starks were the main focus of Aerys' atrocities. A more ambitious man could have made a good case for taking the throne for himself once he arrived in King's Landing. I think it's another display of Ned's loyalty to Robert and shows that he was content to return to Winterfell and remain in the North.

[Many and More]

A bit off topic, but I get the feeling we'll find out a lot more about the Stark lineage in the next Dunk and Egg story. Perhaps we will even get hints as to how Bloodraven ended up north of the Wall and attached to a tree.

I suppose I'm not the first to imagine that the pregnant woman asking for revenge was a Lady Stark who was raped by Bloodraven. That would explain where Bran gets his greenseer abilities.

[cybroleach]

Basically, I just can't see why Aerys wouldn't have just married Rhaegar to Lyanna if Lyanna's mother had Targ blood, or if the Starks descended from one of Aegon V's siblings or children, since that would mean that Lyanna would have had more Targ blood than Elia Martell.

Perhaps his mother wasn't a targ but a blackfyre that'd be surprising AND one that King Aerys would both fear and scorn.

[daenerys snow]

A bit off topic, but I get the feeling we'll find out a lot more about the Stark lineage in the next Dunk and Egg story. Perhaps we will even get hints as to how Bloodraven ended up north of the Wall and attached to a tree.

I suppose I'm not the first to imagine that the pregnant woman asking for revenge was a Lady Stark who was raped by Bloodraven. That would explain where Bran gets his greenseer abilities.

bloodraven never struck me as the type to rape. and he did say something about greenseers being physically weak in some way because those are the ones the gods choose to bestow the gift on. he was scrawny and had only one eye, bran was a cripple, and varamyr sixskins was something of a puny weakling (i know he isn't mentioned as being a greenseer but it was mentioned in the book that he was an unusually powerful warg pointes to him possibly being a greenseer himself).

[kissdbyfire]

Perhaps his mother wasn't a targ but a blackfyre that'd be surprising AND one that King Aerys would both fear and scorn.

Yes, interesting. I had never thought about this. For some reason I keep leaving the Blackfyres out of my speculations/theories. But if Eddard's mother or grandmother was a Blackfyre (or Blackfyre descendant) it would explain a lot.

[Alia of the knife]

Does anyone know what ultimately happened between Bloodraven, and Shiera Seastar?

(Maybe he re-bounded with a Stark girl when he went North).

[daenerys snow]

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1459/

March 07, 2006

SHIERA SEASTAR

[Note: The following continues GRRM's series of descriptions of notable Targaryens (and Targaryen bastards) for Amoka.]

Lady Shiera was the natural daughter of King Aegon IV by the ninth and last of his mistresses, Lady Serenei of Lys, the last daughter of an ancient but impoverished line of Valyrian nobility. "Sweet Serenei," Aegon called her, but about his court she was considered cold and haughty, and some said that she was much older than the king, and preserved her beauty by the practice of dark arts. Considered by many the most lovely of Aegon's mistresses, Sweet Serenei died in childbed, bringing forth the last of the king's "Great Bastards," the daughter she named Shiera, Star of the Sea.

Shiera was born with one dark blue eye and one bright green one, but the singers said that this flaw only accentuated her loveliness. She was the greatest beauty of her age, a slender and elegant woman, slim of waist and full of breast. She had the silver-gold hair of the Targaryens, thick and curling, and wore it very long. At some points in her life it fell well below her waist, almost to the back of her knees. She had a heart-shaped face, full lips, and her mismatched eyes were strangely large and full of mischief; her rivals said she used them to melt men's hearts. Even at an early age, she was a great reader. She spoke a dozen tongues and surrounded herself with ancient scrolls. Like her mother, she was reputed to practice the dark arts. Though she never wed, she had many offers, and several lovers through the years. Duels were fought over the right to sit beside her, men killed themselves after falling from her favor, poets outdid each other writing songs about her beauty. Her most ardent admirer was her half-brother, Bloodraven, who proposed marriage to her half a hundred times. Shiera gave him her bed, but never her hand. It amused her more to make him jealous.

As to how to paint her... she was fond of ivory and lace and cloth-of-silver (but not gold, which she considered too vulgar). Her favorite piece of jewelry was a heavy silver necklace of emeralds and star sapphires, alternating.