Sandor Clegane v. 7...better, faster, stronger...

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Yeah, so that little detail always bothered me, too. I haven't ridden a horse in years, but I cannot come up with a way he could have easily got on that horse in front of her.

Sansa says someone was pulling her off her saddle. If he even halfway succeeded, I can see Sandor climbing on and then yanking Sansa up behind him.

I have ridden many times with my children, and they always go behind me, so I can control the horse and they can hang on to me. It would definitely be the safer way galloping through a riot where jumps and tricky manouvers may be required. The horse is accustomed to being controlled by reins, and knees attached to legs that are attached to stirrups. If Sansa was in front, she would have her feet in the stirrups and at minimim be in the way of the reins. Sandor would have had no way to control the horse, and we know that Sansa is at best only a fair rider.

[Alexia]

Sansa says someone was pulling her off her saddle. If he even halfway succeeded, I can see Sandor climbing on and then yanking Sansa up behind him.

He didn't succeed. Sandor cut the man's arm off, quickly steadied her in the saddle, then charged the crowd and beat them back from her.

I never came away with the impression that she isn't a good horsewoman. She isn't as good as Arya, because there are other things she'd rather do, but she is competent. She spent a lot of time riding and hunting with Margaery and her ladies. But I do think she might have trouble with escaping a mob on horseback and Sandor is undoubtedly far better, considering that he spends time jousting.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

I have hesitated to post this because I am sure I am going to sound like a halfwit (or at best, ignorant) but why are people so convinced that Sandor is on the Quiet Isle, and what has he been doing since Arya left him? Why do we not believe the story that he was buried and his helm stolen? I am not saying I don't agree with it, just asking for the reasoning and did not want to start a whole new thread on a topic which was obviously covered repeatedly before I discovered the forums. I have tried to search for threads that answer this with no luck so far.

[Alexia]

Reread the chapter at the QI. Pay close attention to the tall gravedigger (Sandor is taller than Brienne) with a limp (Sandor took a serious hip injury) who has his face covered (thus covering his scars) and pets Dog (Sandor likes dogs). Then consider why GRRM would have paid so much attention to this novice if he weren't significant! Also note the similarities between EB's story and Sandor's (former fighting man, inappropriate crush...), the reaction of the brother to hearing Brienne's intention to kill Sandor (immediately taking her to EB), and EB's insistence that the Hound is dead -- no mention of Sandor.

I didn't catch it the first time I read it. ;)

[Hound's She-wolf]

The gravedigger had a limp (Sandor had just had a serious wound on his leg)

The gravedigger was taller than Brienne, only a couple men have been described as taller than her (Sandor, Gregor, Left &Right)

The Elder Brother says that the Hound has died and Sandor is at peace. And the gravedigger likes Dog.

And beaten to the post again, drat.

[A Maidens Fantasy]

I'm a very bad horse-rider, but it seems to me that when you need to take someone on horseback with you and ride away very quickly, the better solution is, indeed, for this someone to ride pillion. The way it was Sansa could hold on for dear life without hindering the horse in any way. Were she in front of Sandor, she would have to grab either the reins or the horse's neck, which is a bad idea when the horse is in gallop.

That sounds plausible, and I don't think time would have been an issue since the mob would keep a healthy distance to him. My theory is that GRRM wanted Sansa to embrace him, even if it meant being unrealistic, a girl can dream ^_^

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Okay, got it. I actually had re read the chapter before posting, but I guess I did not read as much into thebclues. It does make sense.

[Hound's She-wolf]

That sounds plausible, and I don't think time would have been an issue since the mob would keep a healthy distance to him. My theory which is that GRRM wanted Sansa to embrace him, even if it meant being unrealistic, a girl can dream ^_^

I don't think that he would have pushed her back up on the horse, chased everyone back pulled her off the horse, got back on the horse, then pulled her back onto the horse (they are in the middle of a riot afterall), Seems like he just would have pushed her back on the horse, then gotten up behind her.

In any event, I think you're right, GRRM just wanted Sansa to embrace Sandor.

[headtrip_honey]

Okay, got it. I actually had re read the chapter before posting, but I guess I did not read as much into thebclues. It does make sense.

Also, the fact that he knew all those details about Sandor, which Stark girl he had with him...Sandor was out of his mind with fever when the EB found him. I doubt he would have been able to think clearly enough to tell him all that before (allegedly) dying. Those details probably came later when he was recuperating.

The most telling part to me, is this, after the Elder Brother has gone at great lengths to describe his "death" on the Trident, and his second life on the Quiet Isle:

"I see." Brienne did not know why he was telling her all of this, or what else she ought to say.

"Do you?" He learned forward, his big hands on his knees. "If so, give up this quest of yours. The Hound is dead..."

I mean, honestly, the Elder Brother's story about his own "death" makes no sense if Sandor isn't on the Quiet Isle. It has no narrative function. He was trying to tell Brienne where Sandor was without actually telling her. Like trying to tell her without violating confession, sort of.

[Tini]

I also wondered how the Elder Brother managed to get Stranger to the Quiet Isle. Stranger is not fond of strangers, and the brothers obviously had problems with him on Quiet Isle. But how did they make him go there in the first place? Someone must have persuaded the horse to follow the way leading to the Isle.

[1234567]

Also EB describes Sandor's only motivation for living as killing Gregor, but says even that was taken from him. However the timeline for Sandor knowing Gregor was dead, would only work if Sandor was still alive. EB found Sandor at the most a day or two after Arya left him and he and Arya were told by Gregor's men that Gregor was riding to KL, which could again only have been 3 or 4 days earlier (the scene at the crossroads inn that is). Which seems to indicate that Arya leaving Sandor could be as much as a week before the fight between Gregor and Oberyn and then how long was Qyburn trying to save Gregor before his eventual death....another week or so? Either way, if Sandor had died when EB claimed then Gregor would still have been alive at that point. I hope that made sense!!

[Lemon Cake]

My theory is that GRRM wanted Sansa to embrace him, even if it meant being unrealistic, a girl can dream ^_^

I am totally willing to accept that as a legitimate reason for her to sit behind him. :D

Also, if the gravedigger on the QI is not Sandor Clegane, I will eat my personal copy of AFfC.

(Well, okay, I don't actually own a copy of it, as I confessed on another thread, but I'll go out and buy one just for the occasion.)

[Wee_Birdie]

Also, if the gravedigger on the QI is not Sandor Clegane, I will eat my personal copy of AFfC.

THIS.

There's too much invested for it not to be him, and like has been said before the EB knows too much.

[moey reed]

yay my favourite topic is alive again :D

but yeah, i agree with all of the above. it just wouldn't make any sense for sandor to be really dead after the QI scene and the San/San built up (even though some people say there is not a lot or even none) personally i wold just feel "cheated" (sorry for being so dramatic :P) if after all this talk about the hound being dead, but no mention of sandor, sansa's dreams and thoughts, i mean she literally thinks about him at least once every chapter since he left her with the bloody cloak. it just feels so unfinished.

[little_horn]

Do you guys think Sandor ever had a crush on Cersei? Young 11-12 years old sandor and a beautiful Cersei, somehow I like the idea of her ordering him around and he just wants to stare at her. Sandor does have the eye too and young Cersei must have been breathtaking.

[Wee_Birdie]

Do you guys think Sandor ever had a crush on Cersei? Young 11-12 years old sandor and a beautiful Cersei, somehow I like the idea of her ordering him around and he just wants to stare at her. Sandor does have the eye too and young Cersei must have been breathtaking.

I think it's possible, but I doubt it went any further being a crush on his part.

I'm sure if she was aware of it she would use it to her advantage, but he's way too beneath her to warrant any reciprocation on her part.

[Queensmoot]

I don't think so. I think he's into Sansa because of her innocence. She's a symbol of innocence, courtly love, beauty - all the things that he couldn't have because of his brother and his face. Cersei would have been too dark and too conniving, even as a young girl. I think he would have thought she was hot but resented her for being such a bitch.

I always imagine young Cersei as gorgeous, but with that bitchy sneer-y expression on her face like Kristen Stewart has all the time. Mean girls always make that face. :dunno:

[FacelessGirl]

I don't think so. I think he's into Sansa because of her innocence. She's a symbol of innocence, courtly love, beauty - all the things that he couldn't have because of his brother and his face. Cersei would have been too dark and too conniving, even as a young girl. I think he would have thought she was hot but resented her for being such a bitch.

I always imagine young Cersei as gorgeous, but with that bitchy sneer-y expression on her face like Kristen Stewart has all the time. Mean girls always make that face. :dunno:

This. :lmao:

[headtrip_honey]

I don't think so. I think he's into Sansa because of her innocence. She's a symbol of innocence, courtly love, beauty - all the things that he couldn't have because of his brother and his face. Cersei would have been too dark and too conniving, even as a young girl. I think he would have thought she was hot but resented her for being such a bitch.

I always imagine young Cersei as gorgeous, but with that bitchy sneer-y expression on her face like Kristen Stewart has all the time. Mean girls always make that face. :dunno:

I can see a pre-cynicism Sandor being very taken with Cersei - but once he found out that she wasn't a nice, lovely lady, then that just piled onto his "the world sucks and so does everyone in it" mentality.

[brashcandy]

I can see a pre-cynicism Sandor being very taken with Cersei - but once he found out that she wasn't a nice, lovely lady, then that just piled onto his "the world sucks and so does everyone in it" mentality.

When was pre-cynicism Sandor? In the womb? :) Seriously, by the time he came to work for the Lannisters, he was the Sandor Clegane we know and love. Bitter, harsh, and unyielding.