Sandor Clegane v. 11

[Candor]

The only possible way I can see it happening is if Sandor goes to the Eyrie. I theorized in a previous thread that once Bronze Yhon (who has given his word that LF can have a year unmolested) discovers how ill SR is and that LF has betrothed his bastard daughter to the next in line he may try to help by hiring the reputed healer EB to come to the vale. Sandor may be part of the brothers who go with him to the Vale.

I do wonder though, wouldn't he have to go to the Gates of the Moon, not the Eyrie? Because it seems the Vale court was wintering there, farther down the mountain. An interesting note. I wonder if as the season drags on they'll have to move even further down, toward the bloody gate. In which case their strategical position is lessened, were someone to declare war on them.

That aside, I think you have a good point here, Rapsie. I think Bronze Yohn and the other lords would be keen enough to see where LF mind was headed... "hmm Sweetrobin's health is failing, he's marrying his daughter to the guy next in line.......oh I see what he did there!"

Is EB a reputed healer in canon, or are you speculating that they would see him as such? I can't remember, I really need to re-read this section. :/

[1234567]

@ Candace

Sorry I keep using Vale and Eyrie interchangably!! :dunce: I didn't mean to cause confusion. I mean the Gates of the Moon where she is now!

I think the part about EB is in AFFC somewhere. I guess I'll have to try and find it!

Edit:

did GRRM ever confirm unequivocally anywhere that the limping man was Sandor?

He could indeed be dead and buried, but they scene with EB and Brienne seems to have too many details about him if he had died within a day of Arya leaving him. The main problem is EB refers to his brother's death taking his reason for living from him. The day before Sandor and Arya had been told Gregor was on his way to KL. So Gregor would still have been alive and even if he died the day after, news of the death had to travel to the QI. It seems from the timelines that the ship Arya got (which was also the one that dropped Sansa off at the Fingers) left 6 days after Arya left Sandor. Therefore it Arya and Sandor split up at an early point or possibly at the end of Tyrion's trial. Sandor must have been alive for longer than that, so EB's story about him burying him at the Riverbank doesn't tie up.....I think :idea:

[Grail King]

I think that Sansa will be the one to kill Gregor. She will throw a torch at him while backing away, and he'll go up in flames.

I think the secret to kill Gregor is killing Quyburn, but I could well be wrong.

[Lemon Cake]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle is not Sandor Clegane, I will eat my personal copy of AFfC.

[Queensmoot]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle is not Sandor Clegane, I will eat my personal copy of AFfC.

As will I, and my AFFC is the audiobook! Crunchy! :cool4:

[Alexia]

I think the secret to kill Gregor is killing Quyburn, but I could well be wrong.

It seems like that might just release Gregor from whatever magic hold Qyburn has over him. Gregor Smash, unchecked!

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

@ Candace

Sorry I keep using Vale and Eyrie interchangably!! :dunce: I didn't mean to cause confusion. I mean the Gates of the Moon where she is now!

I think the part about EB is in AFFC somewhere. I guess I'll have to try and find it

Edit:

He could indeed be dead and buried, but they scene with EB and Brienne seems to have too many details about him if he had died within a day of Arya leaving him. The main problem is EB refers to his brother's death taking his reason for living from him. The day before Sandor and Arya had been told Gregor was on his way to KL. So Gregor would still have been alive and even if he died the day after, news of the death had to travel to the QI. It seems from the timelines that the ship Arya got (which was also the one that dropped Sansa off at the Fingers) left 6 days after Arya left Sandor. Therefore it Arya and Sandor split up at an early point or possibly at the end of Tyrion's trial. Sandor must have been alive for longer than that, so EB's story about him burying him at the Riverbank doesn't tie up.....I think :idea:

she's at the gates of the moon. you mean sansa, yes?

as for EB and the Hound, that's very interesting, in what GRRM left unsaid. if sandor was the limping man, not only is the EB possibly a very skilled healer, as no doubt the Hound wounds (recieved from the Tickler, or was it Polliver) had festered badly, but he also must be a great talker. the Hound never gives a damn what wisdom anyone has to offer him. if he thought gregor was gead, what would make him decide to retire to the QI, instead of claiming the Clegane lands? he might want to stay away from them for fear of the lannisters trying to demand he owe them service and fealty, but i think the lannisters fear him just enough to leave him the hell alone. think about it. when he disappeared after the blackwater battle, they never really bothered to look for him, IIRC....

It seems like that might just release Gregor from whatever magic hold Qyburn has over him. Gregor Smash, unchecked!

that would be awesome. do you think he'd be an uncontollable rage monster, or do you think he instinctively hone in on sandor?

[Candor]

@ Candace

Sorry I keep using Vale and Eyrie interchangably!! :dunce: I didn't mean to cause confusion. I mean the Gates of the Moon where she is now!

I think the part about EB is in AFFC somewhere. I guess I'll have to try and find it!

Edit:

He could indeed be dead and buried, but they scene with EB and Brienne seems to have too many details about him if he had died within a day of Arya leaving him. The main problem is EB refers to his brother's death taking his reason for living from him. The day before Sandor and Arya had been told Gregor was on his way to KL. So Gregor would still have been alive and even if he died the day after, news of the death had to travel to the QI. It seems from the timelines that the ship Arya got (which was also the one that dropped Sansa off at the Fingers) left 6 days after Arya left Sandor. Therefore it Arya and Sandor split up at an early point or possibly at the end of Tyrion's trial. Sandor must have been alive for longer than that, so EB's story about him burying him at the Riverbank doesn't tie up.....I think :idea:

It could be metaphorical burying, just like his wordiness when he said the Hound was dead but Sandor was at rest.

[1234567]

It could be metaphorical burying, just like his wordiness when he said the Hound was dead but Sandor was at rest.

I actually think EB buried his armour, hence why the Helm was on top. Also I think EB strong as he seems to be from Brienne's description, would not be carrying along the armour of a guy who is 7 feet tall. Also there was that whole thing he said about being reborn by arriving naked. Am I making any sense?

[Hound's She-wolf]

as for EB and the Hound, that's very interesting, in what GRRM left unsaid. if sandor was the limping man, not only is the EB possibly a very skilled healer, as no doubt the Hound wounds (recieved from the Tickler, or was it Polliver) had festered badly, but he also must be a great talker. the Hound never gives a damn what wisdom anyone has to offer him. if he thought gregor was gead, what would make him decide to retire to the QI, instead of claiming the Clegane lands? he might want to stay away from them for fear of the lannisters trying to demand he owe them service and fealty, but i think the lannisters fear him just enough to leave him the hell alone. think about it. when he disappeared after the blackwater battle, they never really bothered to look for him, IIRC....

They may not have spent time looking for him after he deserted, but if he showed up to claim the Clegane lands, I have no doubt he would be beheaded or sent to the wall instead. Or have his kneecaps smashed like some of the goldcloaks that came back.

[Candor]

I actually think EB buried his armour, hence why the Helm was on top. Also I think EB strong as he seems to be from Brienne's description, would not be carrying along the armour of a guy who is 7 feet tall. Also there was that whole thing he said about being reborn by arriving naked. Am I making any sense?

This makes a lot of sense, actually, but I am distracted by the arriving naked part. :blushing:

In all seriousness, I think you are correct.

They may not have spent time looking for him after he deserted, but if he showed up to claim the Clegane lands, I have no doubt he would be beheaded or sent to the wall instead. Or have his kneecaps smashed like some of the goldcloaks that came back.

Sure, after a time, but they have a lot on their plate right now to get to it in a meaningful time period.

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

This makes a lot of sense, actually, but I am distracted by the arriving naked part. :blushing:

In all seriousness, I think you are correct.

Sure, after a time, but they have a lot on their plate right now to get to it in a meaningful time period.

Maybe the nakedness was supposed to provides some sort of metaphorical or symbolic spiritual cleansing in the EB's view of Sandor. As for the knee bashing of Sandor. I'm unconvinced. I know I sound like a broken record, but I think that even though they called him a Hound and a dog, I think the Lannister's feared Sandor just enough not to F%K with him if he goes rogue, as long as he doesn't overtly attack them.

[Flightless bird]

Perhaps for that wee while when sandor was with Arya staying at that small village doing odd jobs for food it seemed like he was looking for some kind of redemption, a quiet simple life.

He seemed quiet content staying there until the villagers asked him to move on....QI may just be an extention of sandor seeking that peaceful existence

[Alexia]

that would be awesome. do you think he'd be an uncontollable rage monster, or do you think he instinctively hone in on sandor?

My imagination runs in the direction of uncontrollable rage monster, but I think he would probably hone in on Sandor if he had the misfortune to be in the vicinity. Maybe Gregor left some sort of light imprint on this new monster's mind, so that certain things (i.e., Sandor) are triggers for it?

[1234567]

My imagination runs in the direction of uncontrollable rage monster, but I think he would probably hone in on Sandor if he had the misfortune to be in the vicinity. Maybe Gregor left some sort of light imprint on this new monster's mind, so that certain things (i.e., Sandor) are triggers for it?

If it's a man with a half burnt face then Loras Tyrell isn't going to last long. Also he and Gregor have history.

Also I found the reference to EB and his healing powers!

p521-522 AFFC

"The Seven have blessed our Elder Brother with healing hands. He has restored many a man to health that even the maesters could not cure, and many a woman too."

[Hound's She-wolf]

I don't think there are enough Lannisters left that would want to go hunting for him, but if he showed up in Lannister territory and tried to claim the Clegane lands, that's different.

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

If it's a man with a half burnt face then Loras Tyrell isn't going to last long. Also he and Gregor have history.

Also I found the reference to EB and his healing powers!

p521-522 AFFC

"The Seven have blessed our Elder Brother with healing hands. He has restored many a man to health that even the maesters could not cure, and many a woman too."

except that loras might not actually be burnt, and i'm desperate to know what magics qyburn is using to control un!gregor... i want there to be an epic trial of seven between sandor, un!gregor, loras, qyburn's other zombies.... damn you GRRM!!! :bang:

[1234567]

except that loras might not actually be burnt, and i'm desperate to know what magics qyburn is using to control un!gregor... i want there to be an epic trial of seven between sandor, un!gregor, loras, qyburn's other zombies.... damn you GRRM!!! :bang:

Oh I have just had a great crackpot idea! What if as you say Loras isn't injured and secretly poses as the Faith's champion at Cersei's trial. :D (sorry I just really want the Tyrell's to suffer and losing Marg and Loras would be a great opener for book 6!!)

I think Sandor is too far away, and EB too much of a pasifist to inform Sandor, and the only other possible person who would stand for Champion of the faith is Lancel, as he knows she did kill Robert and is nuts enough to think he will win because it is a trial by battle and a holy thing.

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

Oh I have just had a great crackpot idea! What if as you say Loras isn't injured and secretly poses as the Faith's champion at Cersei's trial. :D (sorry I just really want the Tyrell's to suffer and losing Marg and Loras would be a great opener for book 6!!)

I think Sandor is too far away, and EB too much of a pasifist to inform Sandor, and the only other possible person who would stand for Champion of the faith is Lancel, as he knows she did kill Robert and is nuts enough to think he will win because it is a trial by battle and a holy thing.

yeeeeaaahhhh.........Lancel vs. un!gregor? can you say domination? gregor will literally eat lancel for breakfast! as for loras not being burnt, it wasn't my idea originally. i think there might even be a trhead dedicated to it, though i'm not certain. the tyrells are sneaky, just look at olenna redwyne (queen of thorns). they have every reason to mislead cersei into thinking that loras is burnt and crippled and to weak to be a threat. he might just be healthy and biding his time for some reason. by the way, why do you hate the tyrells?

[1234567]

by the way, why do you hate the tyrells?

They are the Lannisters with perfume. Their initial involvment with trying to off Cersei and have Robert replace her with Marg, also siding with Joff and not Stannis (I also think Robb was an idiot for the King in the North business), their manipulation of Sansa and subsequent treatment and helping frame Sansa and Tyrion for murder.