The Green Grace is the Harpy

[Dimadick]

I always thought that Shavepate and his Brazen Beast were behind the Harpy business. He seemed to use the Harpy's crime as a way to eliminate other nobles houses of Meereen, but given further thought the Green Grace makes some sense also.

To be honest, Skahaz seems to have built up the Brazen Beasts as his own private army and powerbase. They refused to obey the orders of a new commander and served as the backbone of the coup against Hizdahr. I doubt his only plans are to loyally serve others.

But some of the people murdered in Meereen are Brazen Beasts. Are you suggesting that Skahaz is killing his own soldiers?

[Grip]

To be honest, Skahaz seems to have built up the Brazen Beasts as his own private army and powerbase. They refused to obey the orders of a new commander and served as the backbone of the coup against Hizdahr. I doubt his only plans are to loyally serve others.

But some of the people murdered in Meereen are Brazen Beasts. Are you suggesting that Skahaz is killing his own soldiers?

Yeah this was my take on Skahaz aswell, I mean he is a noble still and comes from quite an influential family. Having his own private army, IE the Brazen Beasts, would of course be a huge advantage over the other nobles around..Edit: While I dont think Skahaz is involved with the sons of the harpy I am not entirely sure that he couldnt sacrifice a few of his men for whatever cause, again I dont think he is doing yet he seems quite a ruthless man after all..

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

the theory is sound (GG=Harpy) but as pointed out upthread, maybe it's too obvious. Like if it was Skahaz and GG was not actually involved at all then it would blow all of our minds... If it is GG there has to be an accompanying twist that makes it more impactful. GG being just one player in this and the actual Harpy being someone else could do that. Or what if under the veil the GG is actually... (wait for it) DUN DUN DUN! A MAN! lol.

While some ppl may not have connected her to the Harpy, everyone by the end of ADWD ycan tell that she is not "helping" Dany. It just doesn't seem like a big enough reveal. But I guess they can have a less than shocking reveal, then we will be shocked by Dany's retribution for this act of treason... she will be pissed. Maybe GG can be exiled from mereen via trebuchet.

[GreenHand]

I do think that Daenerys has overlooked some very obvious causes for suspicion especially after the Green Grace's last show of bold contempt. But I think we are underestimate the charm and guiles of the Green Grace herself. I think her insinuation into Dany's confidence is as much the Green Grace's success as Daenerys' failure.

Consider others who are taken in. Barristan Selmy is no fool and has observed the cunning at their games all his life at court. Yet, as tze points out, even he is taken and won over by the Green Grace:

"An aura of wisdom and dignity seemed to surround her that Ser Barristan could not help but admire. This is a strong woman, and she has been a faithful friend to Daenerys."

These are the qualities that seduce the trust from those she deals with, even without the weight of her noble birth, High Priestess mystique social faith.

And what of the other person close at hand who has proven their intelligence, perception and cunning: Missandei! Not only is she bright but she is deeply familiar with the ways and structures of Ghiscari society. She has dealt with all kinds of people, including nobles and slavers and priests, in her position as secretary and interpreter for the Wise Masters. Yet we never hear a word from her (she sees it all) warning about the Green Grace. She even has dealings with her relatives, two of the hostage children. And it's not that she realizes but keeps quiet because she gives other high-level advice to Barristan.

So I do not blame any of the characters entirely for being taken in by the Green Grace. It takes more to be the Harpy and wield and command the Harpy's Sons than mere political alignment.

---

This theory confirms a lot of my suspicions. As for why Dany trusts her, the answer to me is simple, when Dany leaves Astapor, she puts in place a council of "A healer, a scholar, and a priest", since the Green Grace is all three of them, Dany trusts her instinctively.

A contributing factor I'm sure. The trio is Everything an "evil slaver" is not...image-wise. Of course the temple uses "slaves" too.

------------------------------------

I have this crackpot theory that the locusts were actually coated in the berries that made Dany ill and possibly led to a miscarriage while she was wondering the Dothraki Sea after the flight from Meereen. It was known that Dany and Daario were having sex and Dany also declined having her lady parts be physically examined by Hizdahr's female relatives. They knew she would not still be a virgin considering she had previously been married, though it's unknown if they knew she had carried a child before, so what else would they have wanted to look for except to see if she was possibly already pregnant? At court, she's constantly noted to nibble on her food. I think perhaps that a berry-coated locust or two would have been enough to induce an abortion and possible discomfort but when eaten in large quantity they would make one violently ill, such as they did with Belwas and then later with Dany when she gobbled up large amounts.

I like this theory too. Quite possible!

[DragonSpawn]

Just something i noticed on a re-read...

When the GG proposes marriage between Hizdar & Dany, and Dany meets with Hizdar after and gives him 90 days to control the sons of harpy and she will marry him...

The GG states to Dany: "give him a son... who's father will be the harpy and his mother blood of the Dragon.

Hizdar also states that he has sons already, as evidence of his fertility...

Dany directly asks him if he is the Harpy and he says no, but admits he wouldn't tell her if he was...

When confronted by Ser Barristan he acts very guiltily and tries to have Ser B killed.

He encourages Dany to try the locusts but eats none himself.

He tries to have Drogon killed...

So... the Green Grace is clearly in on it as a trusted advisor to Dany... but quite frankly it seems she's kissing Hizdars ass so much that she's either related or his previous wife... So i think Hizdar is the Harpy if such a thing exists, although the Green Grace might as well be for all the support she has given.

Dany also asks the GG to pray to her gods for a wind to blow the Volanteen fleet away and the GG says she will ask and make sacrafice... not sure what that's about but weird...

Also there is something very fishy about the story of Astapor that the Green Grace tells... didn't notice till the re-read but the lack of names is quite interesting... the butcher king... the cutthroat king... they had a lot of followers yet no names... sounds very exaggerated as if trying to test Dany and her resolve and drive her towards Hizdar... i'm not sure i believe much of what the GG says and less of what Hizdar says... Harpy or not i think both could do with some time in the fighting pit with Drogon.

[Manderly Chef]

I don't think it's Hizidahr. To me his reaction to the Yunkaii killing Groleo shows that he's not in on any of the conspiracies in Mereen. He reacts very indecisively not like someone who's actually trying to win the respect of the Mereenese nobility. He seems to not know that his peace deal is a sham. This makes me think that he is a pawn being used by whoever the Harpy is (I think it's the Green Grace) to neutralize Dany until the Volantene fleet arrives

[Bolivar]

This is good, reading this I think she's by far the most likely candidate. She was way too invested and pushy in Dany's marriage to be a mere counselor.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

I think hizdhar knows who the harpy is. I don't think he himself is. The green grace fits. But I don't think she's alone as the harpy. She needs partners in crime. Hizdar and maybe even skahaz mo kandak

I was just reading dany's first chapter in dance...skahaz lists her enemies. And ends with pahl. And says they are a house of women. And bitter old women with a taste for blood. He then says women do not forget. Women do not forgive. Maybe this is george forshadowing the harpy is a woman.

[Lord Martin]

Nice call, 4G is certainly the Harpy (Galazza Galare the Green Grace = 4G).

She clearly has spies in Dany's temple, she's knows too much about what is going on there. As mentioned above, she knew about Drogon eating a child when no one was around to overhear. And then there was this exchange:

Inevitably it was Galazza Galare who stepped forward, her head held high, her face hidden behind a shimmering veil. "Your Radiance, it might be best were we to speak in private."

"Would that I had the time" said Dany sweetly. "I am to be wed upon the morrow." Her last meeting with the Green Grace had not gone well. "What would you have of me?"

"I would speak to you about the presumption of a certain sellsword captain"

She dares say that in open court? Dany felt a blaze of anger. She has courage, I grant that, but if she thinks I am about to suffer another scolding, she could not be more wrong. "The treachery of Brown Ben Plumm has shocked us all" She said "but your warning comes too late. And now I know you will want to return to your temple to pray for peace"

The Green Grace bowed. "I shall pray for you as well"

Another slap, thought Dany, color rising to her face.

I always assumed 4G was talking about Daario here not Brown Ben Plumm.... we just got the chapter w/ Dany sleeping w/ Daario and screaming all night long.... so I assumed thats what 4G was mad at her about, not Plum.

So whose the spy? My vote is for Reznak... IMO, he is virtually the same person as Varys. In fact, I sort of thought that Reznak might be Varys in disguise given that we don't see Varys from the time Tyrion escapes until Kevan's death.

Both are political advisors

Both are bald

Both are unctuous

Both are perfumed

I'm reasonably sure Varys is not Reznak, but I'd be Reznak is the "Spider" of Dany's temple only he's loyal to 4G instead.

[The Sunset King]

The Green Grace is a very strong candidate for the Harpy's identity, given her actions/behavior.

One thing that seems strange is Hizdahr's actions. He seems to compromise his own self-interest by acting in a provocative fashion but seemingly acting as someone's puppet or being too weak-willed for his position. His status and safety are very far from being assured in the enemy host seizes Mereen. The beseigers would have strong reasons not to fully trust him or want to retain him as the city's king. It would be an easy matter for them to replace him in the chaos and utter destruction that would inevitably accompany a sack of Mereen.

If Hizdahr is an ally of the harpies, he could perhaps have considered selling them out out some point and throwing his lot entirely in with the new order. The risk of retaliation would exist but that seems less dangerous than what will happen if the slavers' win or if Daenerys/Barristan/others crush the enemy host and discover the truth.

One thing that is very clear is that there is a massive social divide in the city. A very large number of the ex-slaves support Daenerys and are victims of harpy attacks. They will not willingly accept the reinstitution of the former aristocracy to its previous status of overwhelming dominance. However, those that have joined the harpy movement and/or have allied with the coalition arrayed against the city detest the present state of affairs.

This seems likely to end with abolition of slavery in more cities (Volantis) and a war that inflicts so much damage on the previous order that it simply cannot recover. A coalition of ex-slaves, followers of the R'hllor religion, Dothraki, Unsullied, and others will ultimately force their will throughout much of Essos. Reprisals and liquidations will likely be part of this but not exclusively the reason. The outcome of the Battle of Fire will start to cause some of the opposition to evaporate.

[Westrosi]

She must be highborn, she is closely related to Hizdahr right? And she tells Dany how nobly born he is--the finest blood of old Mereen or some such.

She's definitely high born... two of her cousins are Dany's "cupbearers" (the children of the highborn who Dany takes as "hostages")

[project5121]

This has been tossed around before, last summer when the book first came out, but I'm doing a reread of ADWD and I'm pretty much sold on the Green Grace being the Harpy.

First off, the obvious: The Harpy in its mythological connotation is female. The (male) Meereenese nobles who are waging guerilla war against Her Radiance are referred to as Sons of the Harpy. If there really is a "head" figure in this guerilla war and they're not just a bunch of independent sleeper cells, it makes sense that the Harpy in question would be a woman. But it never occurs to Dany, herself a woman allegedly ruling a city, and her advisers that this is a possibility.

Dany's advisers are convinced that Hizdahr (who I think is a slug but ultimately just a pawn) is the Harpy, because "he" can get the violence to stop when Dany agrees to marry him. But who suggested to Dany that she should marry Hizdahr? The Green Grace.

Dany starts getting paranoid about the prophecy, thinking, for instance, that Reznak is probably the "perfumed seneschal." Yet she lets the Green Grace have access to her with pretty much no hesitancy or suspicion or wariness whatsoever. Even though she's a Ghiscari high priestess with significant cultural and familial ties to the city — she seems to defend the rise of the slave culture, saying that the area had no other economic prospects; she tells Dany to her face that she's seen as an invading murderer; she's intimately aware of each noble house and the differences between them. By giving Dany "helpful advice," she also has access to most of Dany's plans and strategy, and as such would know the easiest way to exploit any weaknesses. Dany tells her exactly who's moved against her and how (i.e. Qartheen ships doing a blockade). The Green Grace knows when freedmen have been killed, "or so she's been told." She also knows that Dany would never kill the child hostages — namely that she and her agents can wreak havoc without worrying about losing anything.

She also moves pretty seamlessly between the nobility and Dany's court — it seems to me that if she were actually helping Dany, she herself would be a target and treated like a collaborator. But she isn't. Why? Because she's not actually helping Dany.

Finally — this isn't exactly evidence, just a bit of irony — it'd be hilarious if the people that Dany's really suspicious of were actually loyal to her while the woman she thinks of as a close confidante is actually the one working to destroy her. Oops?

I considered her to be BEHIND the Harpy(mainly from her urging Barristan to kill Danys dragons to keep peace with Yunkai)but I thought Hizdahr or someone else was behind it.Now that I think about it,it makes more sense!BRILLIANT!

[cbhamlyn]

I listened to the audio book version entirely in the first 3 days of it's release. Last month I fired it up again to take it a bit slower (I missed some finer points when trying to drive and listen at the same time). And it dawned on me that I honestly believed it was revealed somehow that the GG is the Harpy, so when I got to the end of the book and it wasn't I realized I was so convinced of her that I made it actual fact in my memory.

Not really proof, but if you knew me personally, you'd know I don't make mistakes, so rest assured, she's the Harpy.

[Waiting]

I just can't wait for Tyrion to get in there and OPEN DANY'S EYES!!!! I think he will definitely be the one to figure out a lot of this tuff, as he is so good at reading people and he was onto Plumm straight away. Perhaps the smart thing to do would be to have him quiet and in the background and observing, and then privately telling her what he has observed and deduced. People would underestimate him and then Dany would look a whole lot better!

[ejhawman]

Wouldn't surprise me at all. Balance of evidence/foreshadowing seems to favor it.

[The Bear With Yellow Hair]

I find it interesting that after Hizdahr's imprisonment, Barristan is told that the killings by the Sons of Harpy went from 3 to 9 to 29 in a span of three nights. This is happening when Barristan is still awaiting the return of the Green Grace from Yunkai. So, either the Green Grace has nothing to do with the Sons of Harpy because they are worse than ever in her absence, or she basically told the Sons of Harpy to go insane on the town, and if they were discovered, she would at least be safe in Yunkai while it was all happening. It would be interesting to see if the killings went down the night after she returned.

[The Bear With Yellow Hair]

Nice call, 4G is certainly the Harpy (Galazza Galare the Green Grace = 4G).

She clearly has spies in Dany's temple, she's knows too much about what is going on there. As mentioned above, she knew about Drogon eating a child when no one was around to overhear. And then there was this exchange:

Inevitably it was Galazza Galare who stepped forward, her head held high, her face hidden behind a shimmering veil. "Your Radiance, it might be best were we to speak in private."

"Would that I had the time" said Dany sweetly. "I am to be wed upon the morrow." Her last meeting with the Green Grace had not gone well. "What would you have of me?"

"I would speak to you about the presumption of a certain sellsword captain"

She dares say that in open court? Dany felt a blaze of anger. She has courage, I grant that, but if she thinks I am about to suffer another scolding, she could not be more wrong. "The treachery of Brown Ben Plumm has shocked us all" She said "but your warning comes too late. And now I know you will want to return to your temple to pray for peace"

The Green Grace bowed. "I shall pray for you as well"

Another slap, thought Dany, color rising to her face.

I always assumed 4G was talking about Daario here not Brown Ben Plumm.... we just got the chapter w/ Dany sleeping w/ Daario and screaming all night long.... so I assumed thats what 4G was mad at her about, not Plum.

So whose the spy? My vote is for Reznak... IMO, he is virtually the same person as Varys. In fact, I sort of thought that Reznak might be Varys in disguise given that we don't see Varys from the time Tyrion escapes until Kevan's death.

Both are political advisors

Both are bald

Both are unctuous

Both are perfumed

I'm reasonably sure Varys is not Reznak, but I'd be Reznak is the "Spider" of Dany's temple only he's loyal to 4G instead.

If the Green Grace does have spies, I have reason to believe that they are her Pink Graces. We are never told what their speciality is, but they follow the Green Grace around mysteriously. I'd wager that they are either spies of hers, the actual murderers in the night that are staged as "Sons" of the Harpy, or perhaps they are both. At any rate, these Pink Graces can't be trusted. I think she brought them with her during her meeting with Barristan just in case Barristan tried to arrest her.

[Starks Among Us]

You think Dany would have learned to be more suspicious of older female priestesses after her encounter with MMD - MMD who Dany also thought was on her side until it was too late. I agree, GG = Harpy. Dany not putting two and two together especially after her last incident (MMD) is suprising. Then too, Dany never had a mother that she remembers, no stable female figure in her life- could be she's looking to these older women who offer their support to her to fill the "mother" void that she has. That void makes her vulnerable and she doesn't realize it, because it's probably happening in her subconscious that she's trying to fill it.

[Tini]

I find it interesting that after Hizdahr's imprisonment, Barristan is told that the killings by the Sons of Harpy went from 3 to 9 to 29 in a span of three nights. This is happening when Barristan is still awaiting the return of the Green Grace from Yunkai. So, either the Green Grace has nothing to do with the Sons of Harpy because they are worse than ever in her absence, or she basically told the Sons of Harpy to go insane on the town, and if they were discovered, she would at least be safe in Yunkai while it was all happening. It would be interesting to see if the killings went down the night after she returned.

Or she may simply be out of touch, not able to intervene from the Yunkish camp, when the Sons of the Harpy went ballistic after Barristan arrested one of their own.

[outofthecage]

Nice call, 4G is certainly the Harpy (Galazza Galare the Green Grace = 4G).

She clearly has spies in Dany's temple, she's knows too much about what is going on there. As mentioned above, she knew about Drogon eating a child when no one was around to overhear. And then there was this exchange:

Inevitably it was Galazza Galare who stepped forward, her head held high, her face hidden behind a shimmering veil. "Your Radiance, it might be best were we to speak in private."

"Would that I had the time" said Dany sweetly. "I am to be wed upon the morrow." Her last meeting with the Green Grace had not gone well. "What would you have of me?"

"I would speak to you about the presumption of a certain sellsword captain"

She dares say that in open court? Dany felt a blaze of anger. She has courage, I grant that, but if she thinks I am about to suffer another scolding, she could not be more wrong. "The treachery of Brown Ben Plumm has shocked us all" She said "but your warning comes too late. And now I know you will want to return to your temple to pray for peace"

The Green Grace bowed. "I shall pray for you as well"

Another slap, thought Dany, color rising to her face.

I always assumed 4G was talking about Daario here not Brown Ben Plumm.... we just got the chapter w/ Dany sleeping w/ Daario and screaming all night long.... so I assumed thats what 4G was mad at her about, not Plum.

I too thought GG was referring to Daario rather than Brown Ben Plumm, and perhaps GG felt as though she had one over on Dany, so to speak, since Dany assumed incorrectly. Until this thread, I have to admit I wasn't too sure who the Harpy could be, I had believed it was a group of people rather than just one. But, I have to admit the evidence presented here so far is very convincing. I'm pretty sold on this being a real possibility.

Also, hi! I've been reading through the forum for about a week now and this is my first post.