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Sandor Clegane v. 14


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Maybe Sansa -- with her auburn hair and maidenhood -- will be the Queen Elizabeth I of Westeros beckoning in the age of enlightenment.

Well, the first major plague outbreak was much earlier than Queen Elizabeth (1340's as opposed to Elizabeth's death in 1601), indeed Queen Elizabeth's decision to abolish serfdom in 1574, would not have been possible or effective if all the the slow economic changes had not occured first over a 300 year period.

So all Sansa needs to be is like Merthin in World Without End which will get the ball rolling for someone like Elizabeth in 300 years.

Guys!

So, this talk of plague has got me remembering...

And your post, too, Rapsie.

Okay, so in the tales of Dunk and Egg (I'm telling you, you need to read them if you have not, guys ;) ) there was the Great Spring Sickness. TONS of people died from it, but the only two untouched areas were the Vale and Dorne, who closed off their borders and ports.

If there is a plague now, I can definitely see something like this happening.

I think the Spring Sickness is more like the Sweating Sickness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweating_sickness

which also killed many heirs and had more political effects than long term economic ones (Arthur Prince of Wales dying comparable to the deaths of Valarr and Matarys Targaryen) also the Spring Sickness enables the 2nd Blackfyre rebellion because all of the hostages (many of whom had been pressed into the Silent Sisters) died of it.

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Honestly, and I'll probably get hated on for saying this but I don't think the Hound is evil, or even particularly bad for killing Mycah. He had only Joffrey's word to go on when hearing about the situation, and obviously Cersei was on the warpath at that point. (How dare a BUTCHERS BOY fight the CROWN PRINCE! My baby Joffrey!! :ack: )

Sandor is no Tyrion, but he's not a dummy either. He's been around Joff long enough to know that Joff's a little turd, as well as a sadist. I cannot believe that this guy looks at Cersei and Joff and reasonably concludes that Mycah made a serious attempt to kill the prince. The murder of Mycah was an evil act. Sandor's status as a sworn sword of the Lannisters, or the excuse "he was doing his duty" does not exculpate him from this act, nor do the obvious constraints he would have faced had he refused to kill this kid. He had free will. He used it, and he used it poorly. Same as Jaime, and numerous other characters in these books.

Sandor is sworn to Cersei, Joff and House Lannister as a whole and was only doing his duty in killing Mycah. It's no different than Ser Jorah killing the wineseller for trying to poison Danaerys and people call that noble.
The death of Mycah is in no way comparable to the attempted assassination of Danaerys by the wineseller. Hearsay reporting that the butcher's boy walloped the crown prince, a known quantity to Sandor (see above), is an utterly different context than numerous reliable witnesses reporting on an adult wineseller attempting to give a khaleesi poisoned wine. And I think even with the would-be assassin, there are not a whole lot of (credible) posters here who would say that the wineseller's horrific, drawn out, and painful death as it happened was completely justified.

If we're going to exempt Sandor from blame on the grounds that it was part of his "duty" and therefore his own decision as an individual should not be taken into account, then by the same logic we should not applaud his decision to save Sansa from the mob. He is on foot by the time the prince and rest of the Kingsguard set off for the Red Keep, and so cannot remount in time to book after Joffrey, his primary charge. Sansa is a valuable hostage to the Lannister family, whose welfare (i.e., the welfare of the Lannisters) is one of Sandor's responsibilities. In rescuing Sansa, and in doing so ensuring the continuation of the Lannisters' leverage with the Starks, then, he was "only doing his duty." (I think both of these arguments, by the way, are silly, and look at his decisions as an individual, and consider his murder of Mycah abhorrent and his rescue of Sansa laudable.)

I think people see it as such a terrible act because they know the full story (that the butchers boy was in no way at fault and that Joffrey is a nasty, lying little turd) and also because GRRM wrote it in such a way that Sandor would come across as a complete beast to make his character arc more compelling and his relationship with Sansa more :eek:

There are a lot more things involved in Sandor's character arc than just his relationship with Sansa. Hyper focus on this relationship makes us miss the bigger picture: since the opening of GoT, the murder of a child, attempted murder of a child, or the reaction to the murder of a child, have been the default template by which a character's morality is measured. See Jaime (Bran), Gregor (Targ child), Robert (they're not kids they're dragonspawn), Ned (the khaleesi is just a child). By the end of SoS, Sandor has gone from the position of murdering a child, Mycah, to the active protection of a child, Arya. (By his own admission, his protection of Sansa was inadequate -- "I stood there in my white cloak and watched them beat her.") This turnabout is extraordinary, and suggests that even such a seemingly logical baseline of good/bad morality as the murder of children can be dynamic. I would also suggest that Sandor considers himself morally responsible for Mycah's murder. He's digging many graves on the QI; one of them is for Mycah. And there is evidence that Mycah's death is a sore spot for him.

Here is the only way, the only way, that I can possibly see the evil of Mycah's murder being slightly alleviated, and even this explanation seems like whitewashing and woobifying speculation, and makes me sort of puke in my mouth a little bit. (I am the self-professed Anti-Woob Queen) While Bran was in a coma, we heard Sandor say something about the sense of putting an injured creature out of its misery. Given his experience with the Lannisters, his likely knowledge of Joffrey's sadism and with Cersei's indulgence of her son, he may have either expected the Lannisters to torture Mycah or heard about plans to torture Mycah. There are very few faster ways to kill somebody than the epic blow (crown of the head to the waist, or mid-neck/shoulder to the waist): Sandor may have done this to Mycah in an attempt to head off needless torture and pain at the pass. But again, this is pure speculation.

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since the opening of GoT, the murder of a child, attempted murder of a child, or the reaction to the murder of a child, have been the default template by which a character's morality is measured. See Jaime (Bran), Gregor (Targ child), Robert (they're not kids they're dragonspawn), Ned (the khaleesi is just a child). By the end of SoS, Sandor has gone from the position of murdering a child, Mycah, to the active protection of a child, Arya. (By his own admission, his protection of Sansa was inadequate -- "I stood there in my white cloak and watched them beat her.") This turnabout is extraordinary, and suggests that even such a seemingly logical baseline of good/bad morality as the murder of children can be dynamic.

I would also suggest that Sandor considers himself morally responsible for Mycah's murder. He's digging many graves on the QI; one of them is for Mycah. And there is evidence that Mycah's death is a sore spot for him.

This almost deserves it's own discussion thread as you also have Stannis/Selyse/Mel/Davos and Edric Storm as another potential child murder question. Theon Greyjoy and the Miller's sons. Jon and Ygritte/ Mance's son. Karstark and Kevan Lannister's son. Daario/Dany and the child hostages, Asha and the Glover baby, Balon Swann and Trystane, Dorkstar and Myrcella, the Tyrells and Joff etc.

But for a two cents worth, Sandor is also guilty of killing a 12 year old boy. It was an evil act. Saying that, I don't think Sandor is evil, but this particular incident was a low for him. What he has done in the past has not been fully disclosed, so we don't know if he had done something similar before.

Here is the only way, the only way, that I can possibly see the evil of Mycah's murder being slightly alleviated, and even this explanation seems like whitewashing and woobifying speculation, and makes me sort of puke in my mouth a little bit. (I am the self-professed Anti-Woob Queen) While Bran was in a coma, we heard Sandor say something about the sense of putting an injured creature out of its misery. Given his experience with the Lannisters, his likely knowledge of Joffrey's sadism and with Cersei's indulgence of her son, he may have either expected the Lannisters to torture Mycah or heard about plans to torture Mycah. There are very few faster ways to kill somebody than the epic blow (crown of the head to the waist, or mid-neck/shoulder to the waist): Sandor may have done this to Mycah in an attempt to head off needless torture and pain at the pass. But again, this is pure speculation.

It would be nice if this was the reason for Mycah's death, but there is nothing in the text to support it. Sandor killed Mycah because he was told to. The above argument (which I would love to believe is true) is similar to those people who say Tyrion's married Sansa to save her from the other Lannisters: it would be nice because it excuses a beloved character from a horrendous act. However there is nothing in the text to imply that Sandor was doing anything but following orders.

Mycah it must be said was going to die anyway, and was dead the moment the fight happened, but it was Sandor who did the deed. Similarly Ned was dead anyway, but it was Ser Ilyne who cut his head off and therefore gets a place on Arya's list.

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@Littlespider - I agree wholeheartedly with your post. Sandor does have to be held responsible for killing Mycah. The excuse of "just following orders" does not give one a free pass to commit immoral, cruel actions, as modern readers know from extraordinary evils that happened in our recent history. Interestingly, I don't think Sandor ever even makes that excuse. He knows what he did was wrong, and he knows he could have done differently.

I agree with Rapsie- this topic and how it relates to a lot of the central characters perhaps deserves a thread of its own. Interested in starting one, LS?

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This almost deserves it's own discussion thread as you also have Stannis/Selyse/Mel/Davos and Edric Storm as another potential child murder question. Theon Greyjoy and the Miller's sons. Jon and Ygritte/ Mance's son. Karstark and Kevan Lannister's son. Daario/Dany and the child hostages, Asha and the Glover baby, Balon Swann and Trystane, Dorkstar and Myrcella, the Tyrells and Joff etc.

But for a two cents worth, Sandor is also guilty of killing a 12 year old boy. It was an evil act. Saying that, I don't think Sandor is evil, but this particular incident was a low for him. What he has done in the past has not been fully disclosed, so we don't know if he had done something similar before.

Yes, these are excellent examples above. It is worth it's own thread!

It would be nice if this was the reason for Mycah's death, but there is nothing in the text to support it. Sandor killed Mycah because he was told to. The above argument (which I would love to believe is true) is similar to those people who say Tyrion's married Sansa to save her from the other Lannisters: it would be nice because it excuses a beloved character from a horrendous act. However there is nothing in the text to imply that Sandor was doing anything but following orders.

Yep, you are right. Like, I said, a totally speculative point. I think that, when it comes to our favorite characters, we all wrestle with the desire to excuse them from the wrong and/or stupid decisions they make. This happens in all kinds of stories, not just Martin's.

@Littlespider - I agree wholeheartedly with your post. Sandor does have to be held responsible for killing Mycah. The excuse of "just following orders" does not give one a free pass to commit immoral, cruel actions, as modern readers know from extraordinary evils that happened in our recent history. Interestingly, I don't think Sandor ever even makes that excuse. He knows what he did was wrong, and he knows he could have done differently.

Yes, and this is the key point -- that he is conscious of his wrongdoing. Arya's like the gadfly, harping on him to bring it to the forefront.

Heh, Dorkstar. That is even better than Faegon. There was a SSM somewhere that said that Martin was surprised Dorkstar was so unpopular, since readers were so enthusiastic about "bad boys" like Sandor. Like, wut? Maybe he didn't get the memo about why Sandor is compelling -- that he's an extremely complex bb.

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Sandor is no Tyrion, but he's not a dummy either. He's been around Joff long enough to know that Joff's a little turd, as well as a sadist. I cannot believe that this guy looks at Cersei and Joff and reasonably concludes that Mycah made a serious attempt to kill the prince. The murder of Mycah was an evil act. Sandor's status as a sworn sword of the Lannisters, or the excuse "he was doing his duty" does not exculpate him from this act, nor do the obvious constraints he would have faced had he refused to kill this kid. He had free will. He used it, and he used it poorly. Same as Jaime, and numerous other characters in these books.

I agree that Sandor probably knew that Joff was an awful little shit and I don't deny that the murder of Mycah was an evil act but I still don't think that makes the Hound evil. Certainly the fact that he was doing his duty doesn't excuse his killing Mycah but the fact remains the crown prince was injured and the boy was going to die regardless of whether it was Sandor that killed him or not. Regardless of whether we believe that Sandor could have used free will and just decided not to kill Mycah I don't think HE believes this. He has dedicated his life to being a loyal Lannister dog and obeying without question. I realise that this doesn't excuse his behaviour but it does make me more lenient with regards to judging him on this.

The death of Mycah is in no way comparable to the attempted assassination of Danaerys by the wineseller. Hearsay reporting that the butcher's boy walloped the crown prince, a known quantity to Sandor (see above), is an utterly different context than numerous reliable witnesses reporting on an adult wineseller attempting to give a khaleesi poisoned wine. And I think even with the would-be assassin, there are not a whole lot of (credible) posters here who would say that the wineseller's horrific, drawn out, and painful death as it happened was completely justified.

This is true....

If we're going to exempt Sandor from blame on the grounds that it was part of his "duty" and therefore his own decision as an individual should not be taken into account, then by the same logic we should not applaud his decision to save Sansa from the mob. He is on foot by the time the prince and rest of the Kingsguard set off for the Red Keep, and so cannot remount in time to book after Joffrey, his primary charge. Sansa is a valuable hostage to the Lannister family, whose welfare (i.e., the welfare of the Lannisters) is one of Sandor's responsibilities. In rescuing Sansa, and in doing so ensuring the continuation of the Lannisters' leverage with the Starks, then, he was "only doing his duty." (I think both of these arguments, by the way, are silly, and look at his decisions as an individual, and consider his murder of Mycah abhorrent and his rescue of Sansa laudable.)

True in a way, but I think the difference here is that we KNOW that Sandor killed Mycah because it was his duty and we also KNOW that he saved Sansa for personal reasons.

There are a lot more things involved in Sandor's character arc than just his relationship with Sansa. Hyper focus on this relationship makes us miss the bigger picture: since the opening of GoT, the murder of a child, attempted murder of a child, or the reaction to the murder of a child, have been the default template by which a character's morality is measured. See Jaime (Bran), Gregor (Targ child), Robert (they're not kids they're dragonspawn), Ned (the khaleesi is just a child). By the end of SoS, Sandor has gone from the position of murdering a child, Mycah, to the active protection of a child, Arya. (By his own admission, his protection of Sansa was inadequate -- "I stood there in my white cloak and watched them beat her.") This turnabout is extraordinary, and suggests that even such a seemingly logical baseline of good/bad morality as the murder of children can be dynamic. I would also suggest that Sandor considers himself morally responsible for Mycah's murder. He's digging many graves on the QI; one of them is for Mycah. And there is evidence that Mycah's death is a sore spot for him.

EXCELLENT points about the measure of morality for characters being their involvement in/reaction to the murder of children. I had never thought about it this way but it's true and very interesting. Just to clarify, In my original post I wasn't implying his relationship with Sansa was THE major part of his arc, in fact when I said make his arc more compelling I meant that the murder of Mycah served to intensify his redemption arc because he has to atone for such a horrible act.

Here is the only way, the only way, that I can possibly see the evil of Mycah's murder being slightly alleviated, and even this explanation seems like whitewashing and woobifying speculation, and makes me sort of puke in my mouth a little bit. (I am the self-professed Anti-Woob Queen) While Bran was in a coma, we heard Sandor say something about the sense of putting an injured creature out of its misery. Given his experience with the Lannisters, his likely knowledge of Joffrey's sadism and with Cersei's indulgence of her son, he may have either expected the Lannisters to torture Mycah or heard about plans to torture Mycah. There are very few faster ways to kill somebody than the epic blow (crown of the head to the waist, or mid-neck/shoulder to the waist): Sandor may have done this to Mycah in an attempt to head off needless torture and pain at the pass. But again, this is pure speculation.

Interesting speculation!

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True in a way, but I think the difference here is that we KNOW that Sandor killed Mycah because it was his duty and we also KNOW that he saved Sansa for personal reasons.

Do we, though? Or, do we know that he saved her entirely for personal reasons? I'm not convinced of this. And if he did save her for personal reasons, then why didn't he step in when she was being beaten?
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It would be nice if this was the reason for Mycah's death, but there is nothing in the text to support it. Sandor killed Mycah because he was told to. The above argument (which I would love to believe is true) is similar to those people who say Tyrion's married Sansa to save her from the other Lannisters: it would be nice because it excuses a beloved character from a horrendous act. However there is nothing in the text to imply that Sandor was doing anything but following orders.

I think it's important that because Sandor is a non POV character we don't often know his motivation behind things and we have to glean information from observations made by other characters. Because we have so little information I think speculation is perfectly acceptable and littlespider's explanation makes sense to me (not that I give it creedence I just think it's plausible :D) Tyrion on the other hand is a POV character and we have direct insight into his thoughts so he is much harder to make excuses for! It's obvious that saving Sansa was not his motivation.

I guess I have been guilty of subconcious Sandor white washing. I was just thinking about the other KG members who beat Sansa because it was their duty (they were ordered to by the turd) and I didn't excuse any of them for this much less serious crime....

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Do we, though? Or, do we know that he saved her entirely for personal reasons? I'm not convinced of this. And if he did save her for personal reasons, then why didn't he step in when she was being beaten?

It's a provocative question to ponder. I tend to think that with the riot there was no other choice but to act. Her life was in immediate danger and he responded to suit. I do think it was based partly on personal reasons, perhaps even the excessive violence he uses on the peasants reflects this, but I also think he would have tried to save poor Lollys if he had spotted her too. The difference is that he wouldn't have died trying to save Lollys, but I do think he would have risked life and limb for Sansa. The situation with the beatings is a little different. Her life isn't being threatened, and he does attempt to mitigate her suffering by providing "tough love" by telling her to "give him what he wants" or something like that.

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Do we, though? Or, do we know that he saved her entirely for personal reasons? I'm not convinced of this. And if he did save her for personal reasons, then why didn't he step in when she was being beaten?
Good point, I guess I don't know but I assume based on the hints in the text that he is OBSESSED with her. The reason he saved her from the mob is that it is a completely reasonable thing to do. He cares about her safety and she is at genuine risk of being killed by the mob so he steps in to save her life. He is not distracted by Joffs presence or the need to save him because he had already escaped. (I honestly don't know, if Joff had been there and he had the choice of saving only one who he would have chosen.) The reason that he doesn't stop her beatings is that he would be going directly against Joffrey's orders. Also, getting beaten and humiliated is not the same as being killed.

ETA

Brashcandy beat me to it! Slightly more eloquently too haha :D

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There are a lot more things involved in Sandor's character arc than just his relationship with Sansa. Hyper focus on this relationship makes us miss the bigger picture:

To be fair, I don't think most of us do this. We talk about it a lot, yes, because we love both characters and many of us find their interactions super interesting -- and also because his interactions with Sansa are very, very important and integral to Sandor's character development, every bit as much as anything else that has happened with him, including his time with Arya.

Sure, we sometimes get carried away and overstate things, and it's good to check ourselves on that. But the fact remains that it was a very important part of his story arc, and unlike his storylines with most other characters, it will probably have some follow-up in future books, so it's only natural that we're going to talk about it a lot. It's a big part of his story.

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And I know, I know, the quiet life could be good for Sandor, but selfish old me would be VERY disappoint if that was what went down.

Quiet life might suit Sansa aswell you can imagine it now a small cottage in the country where Sansa and husband Sandor live a peaceful life with their children and uncle Tyrion comes to visit every weekend for dinner

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Quiet life might suit Sansa aswell you can imagine it now a small cottage in the country where Sansa and husband Sandor live a peaceful life with their children and uncle Tyrion comes to visit every weekend for dinner

Sansa's going to be too busy being Queen in the North. And Tyrion isn't invited.

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It's a provocative question to ponder. I tend to think that with the riot there was no other choice but to act. Her life was in immediate danger and he responded to suit. I do think it was based partly on personal reasons, perhaps even the excessive violence he uses on the peasants reflects this, but I also think he would have tried to save poor Lollys if he had spotted her too. The difference is that he wouldn't have died trying to save Lollys, but I do think he would have risked life and limb for Sansa. The situation with the beatings is a little different. Her life isn't being threatened, and he does attempt to mitigate her suffering by providing "tough love" by telling her to "give him what he wants" or something like that.

It is interesting to think about. On one hand, he was just doing his job, and like you, I believe he would have saved Lollys too if he'd seen her. But on the other hand, he kind of went above and beyond with Sansa in comparison to what he did for the one other person he saved that day. With the other person (I honestly can't remember their name, though I do remember what happened with them), he got them out of immediate danger and apparently sent them on their way to fend for themselves. With Sansa, though, he not only rescued her from immediate death but personally saw her back to safety and made sure she would be taken care of, and he did all of this for Sansa even before he went back into the fray to find his beloved Stranger -- and we all know what his boy Stranger means to him! Sandor/Stranger bromance ftw.

Ahem, anyway. It does seem to me like he went above and beyond with Sansa. And he was obviously pissed that she didn't come and thank him later, so apparently he thought he went above and beyond in helping her too.

Of course, I suppose it could be that he only took extra care with Sansa because she was Joff's betrothed and a valuable hostage, so he knew it was important to keep her safe. Or he could very well have done it for personal reasons as well; after all, he'd already shown an unhealthy special interest in her long before that. Or it could have been for both personal and professional reasons.

Personally, I'm guessing both with a tiny bit more emphasis on the personal.

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Agreed, lemoncake. Sandor talks a good show about how the weak should die and get out of the way of the strong, but he certainly didn't think that when Sansa was in danger. If it had been any other KG there I don't know if they would have risked a violent mob to save her, especially since they would have seen how abominably Joff treated her at court.

I continue to think his wanting to be thanked was endearing :) Yes, he was really rude about it, but I think it shows a part of him that longs to be recognized for doing something good, and in particular he wanted Sansa to feel impressed.

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I continue to think his wanting to be thanked was endearing :) Yes, he was really rude about it, but I think it shows a part of him that longs to be recognized for doing something good, and in particular he wanted Sansa to feel impressed.

I think it was endearing too, and even kind of... well, I hesitate to use the word "cute" in reference to anything connected to Sandor, but... well, it was kind of cute! (Oh god, he would hate me for saying that.) It was like he'd done something he was actually kind of proud of for once, and it ~hurt his feelings~ that he didn't get any credit for it from someone whose good opinion he valued. And yes, however much he sneered at her, I do think it's pretty obvious that he wanted Sansa to have a good opinion of him. He would have laughed and scoffed and denied it if anyone said so... but he totally did want her to think well of him.*

I just wish he hadn't ruined it by being such an asshole when she did thank him. Sigh.

* I sometimes wish Sandor could have been privy to the more positive thoughts of both Stark girls, simply because they were two of only a handful of people who ever saw him as a person. I think he would have been pleasantly surprised. In fact, the other day I was mentally cataloging all the times Sansa (she's my favorite so my ASOIAF thoughts are usually very Sansa-centric you see IT'S A PROBLEM I CAN'T HELP IT OKAY) has thought of him in positive ways.

And I don't mean that in a shippy way at all, because I'm talking about thoughts that, imo, have little or nothing to do with her unhealthy crush or with her tendency to whitewash things. I'm talking about thoughts that I think are a genuine appreciation of certain aspects of Sandor's personality. There are more of them than I realized. But that's a topic for another day.

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Curses! My post got eaten :crying: / cryingforever

So.

Quiet life might suit Sansa aswell you can imagine it now a small cottage in the country where Sansa and husband Sandor live a peaceful life with their children and uncle Tyrion comes to visit every weekend for dinner

Just No.

It's a provocative question to ponder. I tend to think that with the riot there was no other choice but to act. Her life was in immediate danger and he responded to suit. I do think it was based partly on personal reasons, perhaps even the excessive violence he uses on the peasants reflects this, but I also think he would have tried to save poor Lollys if he had spotted her too. The difference is that he wouldn't have died trying to save Lollys, but I do think he would have risked life and limb for Sansa. The situation with the beatings is a little different. Her life isn't being threatened, and he does attempt to mitigate her suffering by providing "tough love" by telling her to "give him what he wants" or something like that.

This reminds me of when he hit Arya with the blunt of the axe. Similar situation: both were in immediate danger, it was his MO to react. We know he regrets not acting in the case of Sansa's beatings, but I honestly don't think he could have safely done more than he did without bringing unwanted scrutiny upon him and Sansa, as well as some possible consquences.

1. Turd would be disappoint to not to get to play with his toy :ack:

1b. would probably go running to Mommy about it.

2. Sansa might very well be ridiculed, in a childish way as "You have an ugly, old dog pining after you."

3. Unwanted scrutiny could lead to an accusation that there's something between them two, which.......would not end well thanks to the non-existant fair trials in this series.

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This reminds me of when he hit Arya with the blunt of the axe. Similar situation: both were in immediate danger, it was his MO to react. We know he regrets not acting in the case of Sansa's beatings, but I honestly don't think he could have safely done more than he did without bringing unwanted scrutiny upon him and Sansa, as well as some possible consquences.

Agreed. I don't think the situation when he saved Arya is very comparable to the situation with Sansa's beatings, or even to the situation when he offered to take her away on the night of the Blackwater battle. In both of the latter situations, Sansa was not in immediate danger of being killed like Arya was. And even aside from that, both of those situations with Sansa were a lot more complicated for various reasons (both emotional and pragmatic) than the situation with Arya was.

I've always thought that if Sansa had been in immediate danger of being killed in the next few minutes, like Arya was, then instinct would have kicked in again and Sandor would have forcibly rescued her too, regardless of whether she wanted him to or not. (Of course, it's a good thing this was not necessary, since Sandor and Sansa on the road together after ACoK would have been an unmitigated disaster for SO VERY MANY REASONS, but still.)

I understand why he's later wracked with guilt over it and feels that his protection was inadequate (because it was), but I also understand that there wasn't a whole lot more he could have done for Sansa that wouldn't have opened a very nasty can of worms for them both. I will be forever curious about what (if anything) he would have done if Tyrion hadn't walked in on that scene in ACoK and stopped Sansa's beating. If I ever get to meet GRRM, maybe that's one of the questions I'll ask him. (And just watch, he'll say, "I don't know." And I will cry forever in frustration.)

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