Elfangle Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 there ya goYou're with me then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetitansbastard Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 You're with me then?I mean I didn't think of that possibility, but sure its as good as any theory about her purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I only reently found out about this... Felt so dumb. But as you say, what exactly is her game? I found the oldtown chapters very cool an mysterious. The town just seems genuinely medieval. Plus all the maesters and the unresolved issues of "the book", the faceless man assassination and the glass candle/dragonglass. It just all feels imporrant for the larger scheme of things to happen. I'm really curious.pure curiousity. Think of James Barry who spent most of her life as a man so that she could be accepted as a doctor.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Barry_(surgeon)As a Maester Alleras/Sarella will have influence, access to learning that is beyond most Septas, and an interesting and exciting career, and if she ever decides to have kids, she can just pack up and return to Dorne, go back to being a woman and get married. Where as if she became a Septa, she would be stuck with those vows...I'm really afraid what happens in the Citadel will turn out to be your classical magical school of a lot of fantasy novels ! I hope not !I think it's like a medieval university, like Bologna or Oxford, with a little bit of magic added (but then the Maesters are actually against magic).Sarellas ultimate goal is to kill a dragon... Why, maybe Oberyn did not like the targaryens that much since rhaegar was basically cheating on Elia with a certain Stark girl. And that ultimately led to the death of Elia. I think it was stated somewhere that Oberyn and Elia were very close. Although it is said that Oberyn wanted to keep fighting for the Targaryens during Roberts Rebellion, this might have been just a act. To bad Doran held him back so he could not play out his secret game.When he finds out that dragons have resurfaced (through his many contacts that he gained during his travels), he sends his youngest daughter (Sarella) to the citadel to learn more about then in order to find how the maesters killed the previous dragons.And the last hint..... Tyrion has mentionned that the only way to kill a dragon is to hit him where he is not protected (underbely and EYES) and is it no very convenient that Arellas is very good with his bow. Why else focussing on it that much in AFFC....Unbelievable? I think not although it still is a crazie crakpot theoryQuite the opposite, the Dornish, because of Elia's death at Lannister hands, are forced to become Targaryen loyalists (like the Welsh were Lancastrian loyalists during the Wars of the Roses because Henry VII was half Welsh). Which is why Quentyn sought Daenerys out: so he could ally Dorne with her and they could use her dragons to burn down Casterly Rock in vengeance for Elia. How the Dornish will feel about dragons post-Quentyn's demise is another matter.It's like 9/11: you could blame American foreign policy and American success vs misery hole that is the Middle East, but the people ultimately responsible are the people flying planes into buildings (and the guy who gave them the orders) sure this a bad example since certain kinds of people who do blame American foreign policy or "Dah Juice" (I just couldn't think of anything else, but Team America had an awesome joke of something like this) but you get the general picture.the people with most motivation to kill a dragon would be Cersei and the Tyrells, the Starks would be able to use the dragons to kill Others and Wights, but otherwise those dragons quash any Stark hopes for permanent Northern Independence.The Dornish very much want the Dragons alive and burning anybody who ever wronged them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon greyscale Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 IDK, pure curiosity would be a little dissappinting IMO. Why would grrm create all this oldtown intrigue just to show alleras' academic interests?In that case, the oldtown chapters are just filler pages. Why introduce us to these characters? You could be right of course but it just seems a little underwhelming.In general, i refuse to believe that affc was just a filler book. Dorne and the ironborn will become bigger players and perhaps alleras is one of the key players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Maintenance Man Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 IDK, pure curiosity would be a little dissappinting IMO. Why would grrm create all this oldtown intrigue just to show alleras' academic interests?In that case, the oldtown chapters are just filler pages. Why introduce us to these characters? You could be right of course but it just seems a little underwhelming.In general, i refuse to believe that affc was just a filler book. Dorne and the ironborn will become bigger players and perhaps alleras is one of the key players.I don't see how that would be disappointing at all. In fact, it makes matters more interesting. I would say that the overall theme of AFFC was reading about Westeros in a time of transition, the rough time of change directly following the 'War of the Five Kings'. AFFC was very important because it set the stage that will determine the nature and shape of the future. Oldtown appears to have become an indirect battleground. I don't know what's going to happen in the Citadel over the course of the next two books, but under any circumstance, with Alleras/Sarella, Leo Tyrell, Sam Tarly and Jaqen H'Ghar all thrown into the mix together, I doubt that it will be anything less than epic. After all, that is what we have come to expect from this series. To anyone who says that A Feast for Crows was somehow less exciting or less important than the previous installments, I say you are sadly mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Ilyn's Tongue Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 To anyone who says that A Feast for Crows was somehow less exciting or less important than the previous installments, I say you are sadly mistaken.I completely agree. There's a lot of good stuff going on in Feast, none of which will be irrelevant later on (IMHO).I also agree with the main gist of your argument (well thought out btw). I can't see Sarella being built up as a character and then not being used for something significant. Plus Alleras gets quite a lot of descriptive attention (both physical and personality) from GRRM. Why bother unless this is useful information?I would be highly surprised if they don't turn out to be the same person. There's just too many clues. But seeing as this is ASOIAF, who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Sarellas ultimate goal is to kill a dragon... the hint..... Tyrion has mentionned that the only way to kill a dragon is to hit him where he is not protected (underbely and EYES) and Arellas is very good with his bow. Why else focussing on it that much in AFFC....Yes Alleras is being set up as mankind's finest precision instrument, our best hope for a dragon slayer. And she/he has been matched up with the other 'slayer' character, Sam, and with someone who just slays, period. (The Faceless man). Soooo....... Super Death Crew, Unite! (???) Also, the way Alleras has such foreboding about missing his last shot has to trouble us a bit. Maybe Alleras will be like the kicker who has a chance to win the superbowl but who misses the final field goal. It's possible she/he becomes the biggest goat ever by missing a very very very very important shot that allows a dragon to continue roasting our favorite characters or something.It's not clear to me why Alleras would be training to kill dragons, though. So maybe she's not thinking about that yet. Maybe the targets she's envisioning at this point are Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon greyscale Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I don't see how that would be disappointing at all. In fact, it makes matters more interesting. I would say that the overall theme of AFFC was reading about Westeros in a time of transition, the rough time of change directly following the 'War of the Five Kings'. AFFC was very important because it set the stage that will determine the nature and shape of the future. Oldtown appears to have become an indirect battleground. I don't know what's going to happen in the Citadel over the course of the next two books, but under any circumstance, with Alleras/Sarella, Leo Tyrell, Sam Tarly and Jaqen H'Ghar all thrown into the mix together, I doubt that it will be anything less than epic. After all, that is what we have come to expect from this series. To anyone who says that A Feast for Crows was somehow less exciting or less important than the previous installments, I say you are sadly mistaken.I meant that if at the end of the books, we find out that alleras' presence in the Citadel isn't important to the rest of the story - that she's simply 'there' as a narrative tool to showcase oldtown -, I'd be disappointed. Simply dressing up as a man to access knowledge doesn't cut it for me. That's not a story but a descriptive fact (and a hidden one at that). I want to know why (s)he needs that knowledge and how it might tie in with Dorne's future power games.To be clear: I totally agree that AFFC was an awesome book and that AFFC 'haters' area.) wrong about it not being exciting b.) should have more patience about it being important to the rest of the story.So basically, I don't think we're really disagreeing on the merit of AFFC:)On the dragonslayer angle; it would be a cool destiny for her (nice theory Elfangle!). Although, as others have said, I don't see at this point why the Martells would want to slay a dragon. What was Quentyn's mission again? oh right, to win over a dragon, not to kill it.Maybe she gains knowledge about the dragons that leads her to stray from the family alliance with the Targs. Maybe she finds out that Dragon's are too uncontrollable and decides to take matters in her own hands. Just spitballing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hell, maybe the tension between Dorne and Daenerys comes to a head with Alleras killing a dragon to show Dorne's support for Aegon over Daenerys. Revenge for Quentyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon greyscale Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hell, maybe the tension between Dorne and Daenerys comes to a head with Alleras killing a dragon to show Dorne's support for Aegon over Daenerys. Revenge for Quentyn. :agree: and :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Alleras killing a dragon? If you re-read the prologue, it seems quite clear that Alleras knows something about the prophecy, with all his/her talk about the dragon having three heads.If Alleras was against dragons/magic, she wouldn't be working with Marwyn and aiding Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 So it's not your sports pick "Lock of the Week" is what you're saying. Okay.There's still all kinds of possibilities. Perhaps Alleras is focussed on the 3 heads because her ambition is to slay one of the riders while in flight and take the rider's place. Or the binding horn could turn one of the dragons into a tool for Euron to smash the Citadel with. Providing Alleras with a chance for glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfangle Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Yes Alleras is being set up as mankind's finest precision instrument, our best hope for a dragon slayer. And she/he has been matched up with the other 'slayer' character, Sam, and with someone who just slays, period. (The Faceless man). Soooo....... Super Death Crew, Unite! (???) Also, the way Alleras has such foreboding about missing his last shot has to trouble us a bit. Maybe Alleras will be like the kicker who has a chance to win the superbowl but who misses the final field goal. It's possible she/he becomes the biggest goat ever by missing a very very very very important shot that allows a dragon to continue roasting our favorite characters or something.It's not clear to me why Alleras would be training to kill dragons, though. So maybe she's not thinking about that yet. Maybe the targets she's envisioning at this point are Lannisters.Im really liking the idea of the super death crew!!! Sarella and Sam are perfect but I would replace the FM with either Nymeria and her wolf pack or Penny (finally we know why she is still in the story). The three of them just show up all of a sudden. Sarella shoots one dragon straight in the eye, Sam jumps on a dragon and drives it into the ground. And penny actually picked up a valyrian sword from the weapon storage and stabs Drogon. It will be over before anyone noticed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I meant that if at the end of the books, we find out that alleras' presence in the Citadel isn't important to the rest of the story - that she's simply 'there' as a narrative tool to showcase oldtown -, I'd be disappointed. Simply dressing up as a man to access knowledge doesn't cut it for me. That's not a story but a descriptive fact (and a hidden one at that). I want to know why (s)he needs that knowledge and how it might tie in with Dorne's future power games.To be clear: I totally agree that AFFC was an awesome book and that AFFC 'haters' area.) wrong about it not being excitingb.) should have more patience about it being important to the rest of the story.So basically, I don't think we're really disagreeing on the merit of AFFC:)On the dragonslayer angle; it would be a cool destiny for her (nice theory Elfangle!). Although, as others have said, I don't see at this point why the Martells would want to slay a dragon. What was Quentyn's mission again? oh right, to win over a dragon, not to kill it.Maybe she gains knowledge about the dragons that leads her to stray from the family alliance with the Targs. Maybe she finds out that Dragon's are too uncontrollable and decides to take matters in her own hands. Just spitballing.Alleras/Sarella maybe in Old Town to become Westeros's James Barry (aka intellectual curiousity), but I think she and Sam will therefore discover the Faceless Men/Dragon Killing Conspiracy or something like that. Alleras killing a dragon?If you re-read the prologue, it seems quite clear that Alleras knows something about the prophecy, with all his/her talk about the dragon having three heads.If Alleras was against dragons/magic, she wouldn't be working with Marwyn and aiding Sam.The Dornish, until the find out about Quentyn, have reason to be pro-dragon and pro-magic. Since it enables them to avenge themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 But that just goes against everything we've heard about Alleras/Sarella. I really don't think she'll stop caring about the fate of Westeros (Sam will tell her about the Others, and she already seems to know about the prophecy) just because her cousin stupidly tried to steal a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 But that just goes against everything we've heard about Alleras/Sarella. I really don't think she'll stop caring about the fate of Westeros (Sam will tell her about the Others, and she already seems to know about the prophecy) just because her cousin stupidly tried to steal a dragon.At the moment, she like all the Dornish, wants vengeance, though she is not as invested in it as her sisters. Being more intellectual, hence her presence in Old Town.But perhaps when she hears about the Others from Sam, she will realise that Daenerys's dragons (previously seen as tools in the "justice for Elia project") are also fundamental tools in the "fight the undead ice monster horrors" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Hell, maybe the tension between Dorne and Daenerys comes to a head with Alleras killing a dragon to show Dorne's support for Aegon over Daenerys. Revenge for Quentyn.that would be amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLostLord Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 At the moment, she like all the Dornish, wants vengeance, though she is not as invested in it as her sisters. Being more intellectual, hence her presence in Old Town.But perhaps when she hears about the Others from Sam, she will realise that Daenerys's dragons (previously seen as tools in the "justice for Elia project") are also fundamental tools in the "fight the undead ice monster horrors"Do you realy believe she'll play an important role when it comes to the others?Great analysis by the way :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmela28 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I don't know what's going to happen in the Citadel over the course of the next two books, but under any circumstance, with Alleras/Sarella, Leo Tyrell, Sam Tarly and Jaqen H'Ghar all thrown into the mix together, I doubt that it will be anything less than epic. Agree - that's quite an interesting group of people thrown together. We also have Tyrion's suspicions about the very important "dragon book":"And of course there was even less chance of his coming on the fragmentary, anonymous, blood-soaked tome sometimes called Blood and Fire and sometimes called The Death of Dragons, the only surviving copy of which was supposedly hidden away in a locked vault beneath the Citadel."Assuming Alleras = Sarella, how much does Doran actually know about what she is doing and why? He tells Areo to "leave her to her game" which doesn't provide us with much information about how she may (or may not) fit into his plans for vengeance. I am really curious about Jaqen/Alchemist's intent. If he wanted only the dragon book, he could have taken it and been gone long ago. Perhaps it is what is in that book that requires him to stick around the Citadel and observe and listen and wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bear Mormont Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I miss Maester Aemon. Also, great original post to start the thread. Excellent research to support theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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