And the Iron Thrones goes to...

[Landis]

Jon is the son of Trystane Martell and the Green Grace, enough said !

That's the spirit!

[Tyler Snow]

Aegon/Arya is too fairytale for ASoIaF but, then again, wouldn't that be the most surprising thing to happen in this series? I mean, I suppose Danerys could always just marry Aegon but I'm rooting against Danerys.

On another note, could be Howland Reed + Lyanna = Jon Snow. YOWZA. haha

[Im With Stannis]

This is correct. The only thing is that Axell Florent was the one who saw the vision. Florent made no mention of whether Stannis was a king, but he may very well have assumed that Stannis a king in the vision.

It definitely means that at some point Stannis must be in a position to sit on the Iron Throne as Florent saw. I think that the less obvious possibility of Stannis becoming the Hand of the King fits with the trend of fire visions often not being manifest in the most straight forward manner.

If Axel was the one to see it, does that mean it will happen then? Axel might have been mistaken, or maybe he was just trying to brown nose Stannis some more vying for the Hand position he longed for (I can't remember the chapter this happened in, I assume it's around then). Besides, it's not the only time the fires were wrong. Melissandre saw Stannis winning Blackwater, when he actually lost it (albeit, she says it was because he made her stay away from the battle). Perhaps this vision is wrong since Stannis never burned Edric?

Plus, the Florents are a bunch of hacks, if you ask me.

[Mist Isle]

If Axel was the one to see it, does that mean it will happen then? Axel might have been mistaken, or maybe he was just trying to brown nose Stannis some more vying for the Hand position he longed for (I can't remember the chapter this happened in, I assume it's around then). Besides, it's not the only time the fires were wrong. Melissandre saw Stannis winning Blackwater, when he actually lost it (albeit, she says it was because he made her stay away from the battle). Perhaps this vision is wrong since Stannis never burned Edric?

Plus, the Florents are a bunch of hacks, if you ask me.

I think that all the visions seen by characters in fires do happen. But, many (maybe most) of the characters severely misinterpret the visions or come to false conclusions about what is happening.

It is possible that Axell Florent is wrong about Stannis sitting the Iron Throne if he is basing that specific claim on the vision of a "great king" who was watching dancers in yellow garb that he saw in ACoK. But, it is uncertain which vision Axell Florent is basing the claim he made in ASoS on. It could be the same or totally different. I now think that it is possible that he could be wrong. The question is whether Axell Florent saw a vision in which he observed Stannis himself (ignoring the possibility of illusions for now) on the throne and such a vision is the basis for his claim that Stannis will sit the Iron Throne.

It is true that Axell Florent could simply be lying.

Melisandre's vision about the Battle of Blackwater Rush was actually correct, but she did not realize that Garlan Tyrell was the one underneath Renly's armor.

The vision Melisandre had of the Battle of Blackwater Rush was of a day in which Stannis's forces were smashed at King's Land by someone she (apparently) thought was Renly. It appears that her vision included a man who was wearing Renly's armor, but in fact was really Garlan Tyrell. The vision that Melisandre saw in the fire therefore did occur, but she seems to have misinterpreted it.

[The Onion KING]

There are really only a few players that can become King/Queen: Stannis, Tommen, Bran, Asha, John, Arrya, Sansa, or Dany.B

To me it has to be Bran, based on bloodline, circumstance and being true born.

I see Sansa rallying the North, John rallying beyond the Wall, and Arrya delivering the South. With the support of the Starks in the North, the Eyrie and beyond the Wall, they will be too difficult to deal with. Throw in Bran's ability to communicate with the Children and he also has a mystical claim.

I believe Dany will be a victim. She has made too mistakes in who she trusts, and it will be her downfall. She will be turned on, and I have a feeling it will be her servant, whose name escapes me.

Tommen will be spared, but the Barantheon house will fall to a lesser house.

I see the following "tree" happening:

The Iron Throne: Bran

The Hand:Tyrion

The Eyrie: Sansa

Beyond the Wall: John

Dorne and the South: Arrya-with the help of Bravoos

Riverrun-Edmure Tully

Iron Islands and Casterly Rock-Asha (as a thank you for helping defeat Stannis and the Lannisters along the Starks. She will join the Starks after Theon convinces her)

Storm's End-Davos (after saving Rickon)

I see the following dying:

Jamie-at the hands of Catelyn Stark

Brieanne-at the hands of Jamie

Cersei-at the hands of the poeple

Stannis-at the hands of Asha

Milasandre-at the hands of Davos

Theon-at his own hands

Catelyn-at her own hands

Littlefinger-at the hands of Varys

Dany-at the hands of her servant girl

[that tall hedge knight]

Im not trying to argue with you but where it stands now, Bran is fused into a tree and even of he could get out he still can't walk. Also, how do you propose arrya rallies drone and the south?

[Lady Octarina]

How bad would it be if the whole R + L = J was completely off? like he never even thought of putting it in the book that far fetched?

Well, I remember around the time the TV show began, I read an interview with the producers in which they said that they had to go through a test with Martin or something, to see if they really knew ASoIaF and could actually make a good show. Martin asked them who Jon Snow's mother was, and they said something like: "that was not in the book, but we had this theory and told him and he said we were right, and that's how we got the job". That's what settled the R+L=J thing for me. What other reason could they have to need a theory about it?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Well, I remember around the time the TV show began, I read an interview with the producers in which they said that they had to go through a test with Martin or something, to see if they really knew ASoIaF and could actually make a good show. Martin asked them who Jon Snow's mother was, and they said something like: "that was not in the book, but we had this theory and told him and he said we were right, and that's how we got the job". That's what settled the R+L=J thing for me. What other reason could they have to need a theory about it?

I never heard that before, but it's interesting and makes a lot of sense. I can't believe that they'd get the job and have this question be a big deal if the answer was, "Jon's mother is Wylla the wet nurse."

[Smuggler]

there is only one way to find out if the whole R + L = J... and that is to wait a pain staking year, 2 years, and for all we know another 6 years, im just happy i started the series late enough that i didn't have to wait those years, must have been looonngg!

[LordJon]

Florent's vision if true could be Stannis as Hand to King Jon if R+L=J is correct. There is respect between the two of them to not make it so far fetched.

[Landis]

Well, I remember around the time the TV show began, I read an interview with the producers in which they said that they had to go through a test with Martin or something, to see if they really knew ASoIaF and could actually make a good show. Martin asked them who Jon Snow's mother was, and they said something like: "that was not in the book, but we had this theory and told him and he said we were right, and that's how we got the job". That's what settled the R+L=J thing for me. What other reason could they have to need a theory about it?

That's a very interesting quote, but I'd be very interested to know the date when Weiss and Beinhoff had that discussion with GRRM. The R+L=J theory is so ridiculously widespread on this forum and others that it has become accepted as fact. Presumably, anybody wanting to turn these books into a show or movie would have done massive background reading prior to meeting with the author and pitching their plan to him. I find it incredibly hard to believe that being familiar with the R+L=J theory would be an uncommon thing for anybody who had done any background on the series. Again, not knowing when those talks took place is problematic, but I would almost say that if that was the thing that sealed to deal for GRRM, it was because they presented a theory that was not so widely known by fans as the secret Targaryen one.

[ledlevee]

Florent's vision if true could be Stannis as Hand to King Jon if R+L=J is correct. There is respect between the two of them to not make it so far fetched.

I don't know. It doesn't seem like Stannis has any love for the Targs, having fought a war against them and all. If Jon tried to take the throne as a Targ, Stannis would probably fight him for it.

[Tyler Snow]

I don't know. It doesn't seem like Stannis has any love for the Targs, having fought a war against them and all. If Jon tried to take the throne as a Targ, Stannis would probably fight him for it.

I agree. I'm willing to bet that, in Stannis' rather strict and unbending mind, he has marked himself a traitor. He rebelled with his elder brother as he was dutifully bound to do but probably realizes that this has made, himself, a traitor and that he cannot live if a Targaryen regains the throne, since that would mean living as a traitor. Something that I don't think Stannis could do. He'll fight for the throne until he is killed to not only gain power but to legitimize having rebelled against the Targs in the first place.

[The Onion KING]

Im not trying to argue with you but where it stands now, Bran is fused into a tree and even of he could get out he still can't walk. Also, how do you propose arrya rallies drone and the south?

I know Bran is fused into a tree, but I'm assuming he won't be forever. When he is freed, he will be the trueborn heir to the North and have their backing when they rise against the Lannisters.

As for Arrya, I believe she will unite the bravoosi and such. She is a born leader, and more importantly, a born fighter.

[Lady Octarina]

That's a very interesting quote, but I'd be very interested to know the date when Weiss and Beinhoff had that discussion with GRRM.

I would put the link here, but that website where I read it was closed a few months ago, and I have no idea where it was originally posted. What I do know for sure is that I read this interview last march, as soon as they put it online.

I agree. I'm willing to bet that, in Stannis' rather strict and unbending mind, he has marked himself a traitor. He rebelled with his elder brother as he was dutifully bound to do but probably realizes that this has made, himself, a traitor and that he cannot live if a Targaryen regains the throne, since that would mean living as a traitor. Something that I don't think Stannis could do. He'll fight for the throne until he is killed to not only gain power but to legitimize having rebelled against the Targs in the first place.

I have to disagree with that. He was, what, 16 during Robert's rebellion? What choice did he have but to follow his brother's lead? He was his dependent in all aspects, so he can't really be blamed for that. Besides, he didn't have that much of an active part on the war - he mostly fought against hunger without much help from anyone. And most important, I assume if he helped put a new Targaryen on the throne (and I can only see him doing that for Jon, who he respects), that would basically erase his treason. He would certainly be forgiven under such circumstances.

[Lady Octarina]

I know Bran is fused into a tree, but I'm assuming he won't be forever. When he is freed, he will be the trueborn heir to the North and have their backing when they rise against the Lannisters.

Bran is handicapped, and no matter how much magic goes around in Westeros, it's very unlikely his crushed bones will ever be healed. It would be taking too many risks to follow a Lord or a king who can't lead an army - if we make parallels with our world, that would never happen during medieval days. A Lord will only be respected if he goes o war with his men, otherwise he's considered weak and easily disposable. And the North has three other Starks to follow (not to mention Jon) - Arya and Sansa may be lost to them, but as long as Rickon lives they don't have to worry about following Bran. So, yes, I think he'll be a tree forever, and that will be much better for Bran than growing up in that world with his difficulties. And, honestly, doesn't it seem wrong to you that someone who saw the past and the future would have any interest in getting involved in something as irrelevant as politics?

[Tyler Snow]

I would put the link here, but that website where I read it was closed a few months ago, and I have no idea where it was originally posted. What I do know for sure is that I read this interview last march, as soon as they put it online.

I have to disagree with that. He was, what, 16 during Robert's rebellion? What choice did he have but to follow his brother's lead? He was his dependent in all aspects, so he can't really be blamed for that. Besides, he didn't have that much of an active part on the war - he mostly fought against hunger without much help from anyone. And most important, I assume if he helped put a new Targaryen on the throne (and I can only see him doing that for Jon, who he respects), that would basically erase his treason. He would certainly be forgiven under such circumstances.

A normal person yes. But Stannis is the same guy who cut of Davos' fingers for being a smuggler, even though it was Davos that let him and his garrison survive in Stom's End. It'll be interesting to see what Stannis will do if confronted with a Targaryen claimant and himself.

[MtnLion]

I can vouch for Lady Octarina's citing of that quote, it is precisely as I remember it, with no embellishments. I think that it was on the GoT web site at HBO. DB and Dan were interviewed by GRRM prior to starting filming of GoT, make it spring of 2010, and one of the questions that GRRM posed was "who is Jon Snow's mother?" Again, they did say that they had a theory, and once they had placed it before GRRM he acknowledged that it was correct.

There is enough proof in the books before aDwD to actually be considered as settling the point. As I have mentioned there is only one reason for the King's Guard behavior at the Tower of Joy. Once a reader has satisfied himself that he understands the mentality of the KG, they need only reread the conversation to understand exactly.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

I can vouch for Lady Octarina's citing of that quote, it is precisely as I remember it, with no embellishments. I think that it was on the GoT web site at HBO. DB and Dan were interviewed by GRRM prior to starting filming of GoT, make it spring of 2010, and one of the questions that GRRM posed was "who is Jon Snow's mother?" Again, they did say that they had a theory, and once they had placed it before GRRM he acknowledged that it was correct.

There is enough proof in the books before aDwD to actually be considered as settling the point. As I have mentioned there is only one reason for the King's Guard behavior at the Tower of Joy. Once a reader has satisfied himself that he understands the mentality of the KG, they need only reread the conversation to understand exactly.

Agreed. R+L = J has long been settled for me. For Arthur Dayne and Gerold Hightower to not have been on the Trident something must have been of the upmost importance (protecting Rhaegar's son). You don't go into the biggest game of the year without Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson.

[Lady Octarina]

A normal person yes. But Stannis is the same guy who cut of Davos' fingers for being a smuggler, even though it was Davos that let him and his garrison survive in Stom's End. It'll be interesting to see what Stannis will do if confronted with a Targaryen claimant and himself.

Hmm, that makes me wonder if Stannis would insist on having himself maimed as a form of punishment. And how he would react if this Targ refused to do something that barbaric...