And the Iron Thrones goes to...

[Ladywhiskers]

Myrcella is back from Dorne and older than Tommen... she'll be able to carry a child soon...

They can fataly injure Tommen and bethrow Myrcella to Garlan or Willas and still keep a place on the throne...

That is if they accept the Dornish laws of succession !

Why, who else is there to inherit after Tommen? His uncles? I think Myrcella actually does come next, even under Westerosi law.

[Ladywhiskers]

I'm not sure what Jon has to do with Stannis and Daenerys claim to the throne, but anyway, we don't know if Jon is a bastard, the presence of the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy seems to point at Jon being legitimate. After all ,if Jon was not legitimate, they should have been in Dragonstone protecting Viserys and they weren't.

ETA: @MtnLion, we posted almost the same at the same time :D

That's not exactly true. Look at Mary Tudor. She outlived her father and younger brother, and was seated on the throne, even though she was married to a foreign power. There were male cousins once removed, and second cousins, but none of them were considered ahead of her, despite the many politically expedient reasons to do so. Putting Stannis ahead of Danaerys, if we're considering Targs, would be like putting Alexander Stuart ahead of Mary Tudor. It didn't happen. Nobody ever thought it would.

By the same token Sansa Stark is considered the heir to Winterfell, because all of her brothers are dead. She inherits before Benjen or any son of Lyanna, but after any children of Robb Stark. So women do in fact come to the throne. It's happened several times, under the same sorts of laws they have in Westeros. Sisters come before uncles or cousins. So Myrcella Baratheon comes before Stannis Baratheon, unless she is proven to be Myrcella Lannister.

[Landis]

That's not exactly true. Look at Mary Tudor. She outlived her father and younger brother, and was seated on the throne, even though she was married to a foreign power. There were male cousins once removed, and second cousins, but none of them were considered ahead of her, despite the many politically expedient reasons to do so. Putting Stannis ahead of Danaerys, if we're considering Targs, would be like putting Alexander Stuart ahead of Mary Tudor. It didn't happen. Nobody ever thought it would.

By the same token Sansa Stark is considered the heir to Winterfell, because all of her brothers are dead. She inherits before Benjen or any son of Lyanna, but after any children of Robb Stark. So women do in fact come to the throne. It's happened several times, under the same sorts of laws they have in Westeros. Sisters come before uncles or cousins.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand, the Targaryens follow a different line of succession from the other families in Westeros as a result of the Dance with Dragons. This allows for the passing over of daughters if there is an uncle or male cousin alive, so at the time of Aerys' death, the line of succession was:

1. Aegon

2. Jon (if he is actually Rhaegar's son and legitimate)

3. Viserys

This exhausts the male heirs of Aerys, and at this point it moves to the female heirs:

4. Rhaenys

5. Daenerys

If neither of them are available, then Aerys' line is ended, so you move to Aerys' brother's line or his sister's, if he doesn't have a brother. He doesn't have a brother, and he married his sister, so her heirs were his as well. Because Jahaerys II had no children besides Aerys and Rhaella, you then move to Jahaerys' siblings, the children of Aegon V. The only other child of Aegon V that had children (that we know of) was his daughter, also named Rhaella, who married a Baratheon. The Baratheons don't subscribe to the same succession laws as the Targaryens do, so the succession then goes:

6. Robert Baratheon

7. Joffrey Baratheon

8. Tommen Baratheon

9. Myrcella Baratheon

10. Stannis Baratheon

11. Shireen Baratheon

12. Renly Baratheon

Or variably, if they follow the Targaryen method:

6. Robert Baratheon

7. Joffrey Baratheon

8. Tommen Baratheon

9. Stannis Baratheon

10. Renly Baratheon

11. Myrcella Baratheon

12. Shireen Baratheon

If they are all removed, you have destroyed Aegon V's dynasty, and you move to Rhae and Daella Targaryen, Aegon's two younger sisters, whose descendants are unknown.

[the Remarkable Other]

What about Euron Greyjoy, the first of his name, king of the Andal and the Rhoynar...? We really haven't heard anything about him lately. He must be doing something else other than drinking and whoring until Vic comes back with his bride.

He is disgusting and depraved enough that Dany might actually like him. He can presumably control both the dragons and Victarion. All problems solved.

[Walder_Frey]

All I'm sure of is that Stannis will be king, or hand to the king.

Melisandre had a vision of him sitting on the Iron Throne, and while her prophecies are often misinterpreted, they always seem to be literally correct. By that logic, Stannis will be sitting on the throne at some point, which only the King, King-In-Waiting, and Hand of the King get to do.

[Lady Octarina]

That's not exactly true. Look at Mary Tudor. She outlived her father and younger brother, and was seated on the throne, even though she was married to a foreign power. There were male cousins once removed, and second cousins, but none of them were considered ahead of her, despite the many politically expedient reasons to do so. Putting Stannis ahead of Danaerys, if we're considering Targs, would be like putting Alexander Stuart ahead of Mary Tudor. It didn't happen. Nobody ever thought it would.

By the same token Sansa Stark is considered the heir to Winterfell, because all of her brothers are dead. She inherits before Benjen or any son of Lyanna, but after any children of Robb Stark. So women do in fact come to the throne. It's happened several times, under the same sorts of laws they have in Westeros. Sisters come before uncles or cousins. So Myrcella Baratheon comes before Stannis Baratheon, unless she is proven to be Myrcella Lannister.

I'm not that sure about that. For instance, in our world, there are dynasties in which the daughter comes before her brothers if she is older, and others in which she has no rights to the throne at all (in the first case we had the Portuguese House of Braganza, for example). I don't think the succession traditions in Westeros were ever clearly explained, except in Dorne, and different Houses could follow different traditions in that aspect.

[Mist Isle]

All I'm sure of is that Stannis will be king, or hand to the king.

Melisandre had a vision of him sitting on the Iron Throne, and while her prophecies are often misinterpreted, they always seem to be literally correct. By that logic, Stannis will be sitting on the throne at some point, which only the King, King-In-Waiting, and Hand of the King get to do.

This is correct. The only thing is that Axell Florent was the one who saw the vision. Florent made no mention of whether Stannis was a king, but he may very well have assumed that Stannis a king in the vision.

It definitely means that at some point Stannis must be in a position to sit on the Iron Throne as Florent saw. I think that the less obvious possibility of Stannis becoming the Hand of the King fits with the trend of fire visions often not being manifest in the most straight forward manner.

[Tyler Snow]

I'll be honest, I had never thought off the "Ice and Fire" reflecting the North and the South being joined by a marriage after the fragmentation of this entire ordeal is settled. Initially, I want to say that it will be Jon T.(Targaryen) Snow and Dany tying the knot after he has defeated the Others and she has pacified the Southern kingdoms.

However, the only problem I have with that is the current positions Jon and Dany are in. Jon is a member of the Nightswatch and could be dead for all we know. He is sworn to give up all lands, titles, family, etc. If he didn't turn South to help his father (or the man who raised him at least), his half brothers, and half sisters (again, not really if R+L=J is true, but was rasied as such), I don't see him doing it in honor of people he's never met.

Likewise, Dany, since losing Rhaego, seems pretty determined to bear no more children (if she even can). Which leads me to believe that Jon and Dany union is a pipe dream.

Looking elsewhere in the Kingdoms, however, I do see another potential match that could happen. Sansa and Aegon. Jon dies fighting the Others or simply stays as Lord Commander in the North. Dany crosses the Narrow sea to help install her nephew to the throne, then returns to Essos to rule the Dothraki (whom she seems the most happy with). Sansa, after the maneuvering and counsel of Littlefinger, has claim to the Vale, The Riverlands, and the North. Aegon, in the Sotuh, will destroy the Lannisters and the Tyrells, thus gaining the Stormlands, Crownlands, Westerlands, and Highgarden with Dorne as a willing ally.

The Iron Islands will, in their quest for glory, be largely crushed but I do believe Asha and Theon will return and build the Iron Islands and be given the Westerlands, allowing them to abandon, or at least not be relient upon, the reaving ways of the past. Asha will rule the Iron Islands and Theon the Westernlands.

I also am a fan of this scenario because it means that Littlefinger and Varys, respectively, were each responsible for one half of the royal couple that will pacify the land. Will this be revealed as their plan all along, or at least one they established at some point of their time together in King's Landing? Who knows.

The big thorns in this whole thing are Stannis and Harrold Hardyng. Stannis won't bend the knee and seems determined to be King. Whether he is killed by the Boltons or the Others remains to be seen but I do not see him lasting much longer. Unless I'm totally wrong, haha, which is most likely.

Sansa has to marry Harrold to get the Vale IF Robert Arryn dies. If he doesn't, she still has claim to the Riverlands and the North. If that was the case, Arya, though 100% against her character as she stands now, could be married to Aegon to bind the North to the South.

In the end, in this whimsical fantasy of prediction, I feel that a Sansa/Arya/Aegon union unites the kingdoms of Fire and Ice with the best claims and with the poetic backing of Littlefinger and Varys.

[Itai Peer]

I like the idea of Sansa/Arya/Aegon union ( although I think it is Aegon Blackfyre)

Just don't rush to kill Stanis. He believe that he must be the king because it is his duty - but he might be convinced to bedn the knee to Dany - let says after she some to save the day and her dragon burn the white walker just as they corner Stanis to the wall..

[Tyler Snow]

I would actually love for Stannis to stay on and serve as Aegon's (love the thought of him being a Blackfyre) Hand. He was the only one contending for the throne actually trying to protect the Kingdoms and should be rewarded as such.

The only thing I'm worried about is how he'll be able to reconcile basically changing loyalties from the Targaryens to his brother Robert, back to the Targaryens. Something like that seems almost impossible for a man like Stannis to do. It'll take something drastic for him to justify it, like you say.

[Landis]

I'm actually a big fan of Arya/Aegon, especially if Aegon is real, because it would basically solve the war with the same thing that started it: the love between Lyanna and Rhaegar. Admittedly, Aegon seemed a bit like a spoiled brat when we first met him, but I thought he handled himself much better with the Golden Company. And I agree that Arya falling in love with a pretty boy (eeeeeeeeewwwwwww cooties!!!) is completely against her character, but she is said to be just like Lyanna, who also seems to have been abhorrent of the prospect of marriage (at least where Robert was concerned), but it seems that she wasn't immune to Rhaegar's charms, crying after his little harp song for her, and presumably eloping with him. She was hardly more "ladylike" than Arya either... there's strong speculation that she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree at the tourney of Harrenhall, when she would have been about 16, dying shortly thereafter. Arya's hardly ready for marriage just yet, but if she were to marry Aegon, it would be a little unexpected, but it would hardly blow my ever loving mind.

[Jory]

All I'm sure of is that Stannis will be king, or hand to the king.

Melisandre had a vision of him sitting on the Iron Throne, and while her prophecies are often misinterpreted, they always seem to be literally correct. By that logic, Stannis will be sitting on the throne at some point, which only the King, King-In-Waiting, and Hand of the King get to do.

I wish I could believe this, but Axell Florent is kind of a fuckhead scheming idiot and I wouldn't trust a word out of his mouth, unlike Melisandre, who I can at least trust to be an honest zealous idiot.

[Tyler Snow]

After a lot of thought I'm pretty much on board with the theory of Lyanna being the Knight of the Laughing Tree. I'd like to believe that theory because it makes Howland Reed, trying to repay Lyanna for the kindness she did him, such a beautiful yet futile homage that he accompanied Ned Stark to the Tower of Joy. Especially when you consider Howland and his crannogmen ways, had to be the least comfortable fighting on land, in the open, against some of the best swords in the Kingdom. After all that he is not only one of the two to surivive, but, according to Ned, saved his life and triumphed against the odds.

After all this I think Howland may be my favorite character that we haven't met yet.

Arya/Aegon would be an interested mix with the Lyanna/Rhaegar comparison. I know GRRM has put her far away from Westeros but her return would be a triumphantly unexpected one and, after her years away, perhaps she grew into the beauty that Lyanna had and she thought she did not. I feel like Arya would like Aegon (much like I got the feeling she liked Gendry) and I could see that down the road blossoming. Hard to tell though, and its a long way from Braavos to the Iron Throne right now. A lot will have to happen in the next book to set Arya up for a return to Westeros.

[Lady Octarina]

Arya or Sansa marrying Aegon (revealed to be real) just sounds too romantic and poetic - it could become true in any other fantasy series, but not ASoIaF. Arya joined a group of killers - do you really think there's any chance she would be queen some day? The girl is damaged beyond repair - she might have resembled Lyanna in many ways in AGoT, but the next two years she lived through events her aunt could never dream about. Too different circumstances. And Sansa, all evidence leads us to believe she's slowly turning into a scheming b*tch - something like a smarter, sane version of Cersei. And why would Varys want to give Littlefinger that kind of power, why would he give him any power to rival his own? They both know one would always be trying to find a way to kill the other, or his protegé(e). Whatever happens in the end will be darker than this; this isn't bittersweet enough to match Martin's words.

This theory sounds too much like summer, when the best we can hope for is the shadow of spring.

[Landis]

There is always the possibility that Arya and Aegon fall in love, and then Aegon gets killed XD I don't know though. People on this board seem to be incredibly intent on Jon Snow, and his coming to the throne as king at the end, which is no less cliched and poetic than the proposal of Arya/Aegon. The amount of love for Jon would mean that if he were to die towards the end, it would cast an enormous shadow over everything for the overwhelming majority of readers. So Jon dies, Arya marries Aegon and they rule Westeros, but none of the readers are really happy about it because of what has been lost. Which, to be honest, is precisely what Tolkien intended to do with LotR: you have the eucatastrophe of thinking the world is going to end when something saves it at the last minute, but the victory feels somewhat hollow because there has been an enormous loss over the course of everything.

I agree with you that it seems too romantic for Arya/Aegon to happen, but I don't think it's any less plausible than the bastard who becomes king. Not at all.

[MtnLion]

I agree with you that it seems too romantic for Arya/Aegon to happen, but I don't think it's any less plausible than the bastard who becomes king. Not at all.

But, we don't know that he is a bastard, since there is solid evidence that the King's Guard at the Tower of Joy would not stay and fight to the death for a bastard.

[Landis]

But, we don't know that he is a bastard, since there is solid evidence that the King's Guard at the Tower of Joy would not stay and fight to the death for a bastard.

Sorry, I wasn't overly clear with that. I meant he's perceived as a bastard by everybody, but is secretly a prince.

[Smuggler]

How bad would it be if the whole R + L = J was completely off? like he never even thought of putting it in the book that far fetched?

[Landis]

How bad would it be if the whole R + L = J was completely off? like he never even thought of putting it in the book that far fetched?

I sometimes feel so tired of all the Jon Snow love that I hope against hope that this is true. I'm sure GRRM has picked up on the overriding suspicions of fans, and maybe perpetuates the rumours in some ways, but at the same time, there is a lot of evidence in support of the theory. The thing that I've never gotten over is that despite us having Ned as a POV character, he never once thinks to himself about Jon's heritage. We get all of a POV character's thoughts, and despite the amount of talk of bastards, Targaryen hate, and Lyanna, Ned never once thinks "Oh yeah, it totally makes sense that Baratheon black hair should overpower Lannister gold, after all, Jon has Lyanna's dark hair, when Rhaegar had silver hair," or "Man, I wish Robert would stop asking me about Jon. Gods forbid he ever finds out that Jon's Rhaegar's son. Hey, maybe I could tell him, and he wouldn't kill Jon because he's all that's left of Lyanna? ... Nah, best not." The same argument can be made against the Ned/Ashara theory, and the Ned/Wylla theory, but at the same time, the opportunities for him to think about Ashara or Wylla are much less frequent because those characters are barely even names to the reader of book one. I'm really pulling for Ned/Ashara since DwD, because if Septa Lemore is Ashara, she can confirm that Ned Stark's bastard was her bastard too, thus solving the issue of proof. But I guess we're all just fools in love with our own theories until the truth comes out. Assuming it ever does.

[Arkash]

Jon is the son of Trystane Martell and the Green Grace, enough said !