Arkash Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 There must be a lot of topic about this around, but I didnt manage to find one after a quick search, so here is one:All the theories about it.Who was the Stark Ashara went with: was it Ned, as Allyria told her nephew (who, afterwards told Arya).Ned was supposed to be, like Benjen, calm and cold-tempered, I dont think he'd have fallen easily with Ashara.On the contrary, Brandon was much more "wolf-blooded" it would have been in accordance to what we can guess of him to make out with Ashara and not giving a fuck about her being pregnant.There is also the theories about the Stark + Ashara = Allyria...We also know Benjen was there so...I'd really love to meet Allyria Dayne. As much as I'd love to meet Howland Reed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Are we sure Rickard Stark was not at the Tourney? I don't think he was, all his kids were there, maybe his mysterious wife was already dead and there had to be a Stark at Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinebreaker Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Who was the Stark Ashara went with: was it Ned, as Allyria told her nephew (who, afterwards told Arya)....There is also the theories about the Stark + Ashara = Allyria... I think we've aready met Ashara Dayne. I think her death, and her stillborn daughter were fake. She merely disappeared, and took he child (actually a boy) and reapeared as Aegon and the 'Septa' accompanying him. Further, I think that Aegon is Ned's son. The only 'evidence' are the descriptions of the characters themselves, but dramatically, having Aegon, the pretender Targaryen, being the son of the character we all thought was going to be the protagonist... The narrative Irony of Ned Stark's ACTUAL bastard being alive and well, and pretending to be someone else while is just cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 From the story Meera Reed told Bran,Ned danced with Ashara after Brandon "intervened",if that sheds any light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 There are a few conflicting bits and pieces that Martin gave us but most recently.....(chap 67 pg 879 aDwD) Barristan digressesThat he was in love with Ashara so paid close attention- He asks the question that if he had won the tourney would Ashara turned to him {barristan} rather than Stark (he doesn't stipulate which one)- Dany has eyes like Ashara and sometimes it is like looking at Ashara when he looks at Dany- Ashara topped herself because she had a still born daughter.I FORGOT - he clearly states that Ashara had black hair with PURPLE eyes I think we've aready met Ashara Dayne. I think her death, and her stillborn daughter were fake. She merely disappeared, and took he child (actually a boy) and reapeared as Aegon and the 'Septa' accompanying him. Further, I think that Aegon is Ned's son. The only 'evidence' are the descriptions of the characters themselves, but dramatically, having Aegon, the pretender Targaryen, being the son of the character we all thought was going to be the protagonist... The narrative Irony of Ned Stark's ACTUAL bastard being alive and well, and pretending to be someone else while is just cool...That is just beautiful man :crying: You're my new hero :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evamitchelle Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I think we've aready met Ashara Dayne. I think her death, and her stillborn daughter were fake. She merely disappeared, and took he child (actually a boy) and reapeared as Aegon and the 'Septa' accompanying him. Further, I think that Aegon is Ned's son. The only 'evidence' are the descriptions of the characters themselves, but dramatically, having Aegon, the pretender Targaryen, being the son of the character we all thought was going to be the protagonist... The narrative Irony of Ned Stark's ACTUAL bastard being alive and well, and pretending to be someone else while is just cool...The only problem I have with this theory is that I don't see how black-haired Ashara and brown-haired Ned could have a silver-blonde haired son. Even if Ashara's brother had blonde hair himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 The Septa Lemore theory is interesting, she was one of the most intriguing character of Dance.But there are also possibilities that she is Tyene Sand mother... I like the latter most.It is fun to know Barristan was not supposed to be a PoV intially... in the end he's a perfect choice, he gives so much informations about the past story !Edit :The only problem I have with this theory is that I don't see how black-haired Ashara and brown-haired Ned could have a silver-blonde haired son. Even if Ashara's brother had blonde hair himself. Oops, that also kills the theory about Tyene, since she's blonde too...Anyway, yeah, let us not forget Rickard, but I dont think he's the one Ashara went with... but who knows ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinebreaker Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 That is just beautiful man :crying: You're my new hero :bowdown: I have to give some credit to Bedknobs and Boomsticks... For the theory as well as lending me the books in the first place...The only theory I've come up with independantly is that Varys, as well as being a Blackfyre, may well NOT be a eunuch... So someone out there MIGHT be his child... A little bit crackpot I know... The only problem I have with this theory is that I don't see how black-haired Ashara and brown-haired Ned could have a silver-blonde haired son. Even if Ashara's brother had blonde hair himself.Isn't 'Aegon/Young Griff's' Hair dyed Blue??? Pointed out many, many times by Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 But if he has to reveal himself, he'll have to have them Targaryen-silvery...And having them dyed all his life is really risky, he has to have them naturally.Otherwise, do the ages of Ashara and Lemore similar... if yes, she may well be Ashara...And maybe Howland Reed and Barristan are not the last living person who could answer us about a lot of stuff between the Targs, the Daynes and the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evamitchelle Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Isn't 'Aegon/Young Griff's' Hair dyed Blue??? Pointed out many, many times by Tyrion.And when the dye washes off it comes off silver-blonde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll have to reread Dance to ckeck if his hair are ever un-dyed... I dont remember so, it seems to me that they still blue alongside the whole book but I may be mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I have to give some credit to Bedknobs and Boomsticks... For the theory as well as lending me the books in the first place...you are all my new hero's then! :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan Baratheon Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 As much as i would love ashara dayne to reappear,she cant possibly be septa lomore:1)the septa is described as handsome woman but Ashara Dayne was painstakingly(sigh) hot!!2)Why would she diguise herself as a soiled septa and why would she try to encourage her "son" to another war?? After seeing her brother die in the last war,u wouldve thought that ashara knew better...the sensible thing would be too keep a low profile3)why hide from YG who he really is? Why not tell him she is his mother so that he dosent try to invade westeros thinking it to be his birthright..4)Lastly , there is much greater evidence to support the fact that the septa is actually tyene's mother not Ashara dayne...Sorry guys no ashara "hot-pants" Dayne :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordi Nietos Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The only problem I have with this theory is that I don't see how black-haired Ashara and brown-haired Ned could have a silver-blonde haired son. Even if Ashara's brother had blonde hair himself.With Westeros Genetics this might be true. In real genetics it would depend on how dominant the silvery hair is and what combo of genes is needed to bring it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 1)the septa is described as handsome woman but Ashara Dayne was painstakingly(sigh) hot!!Look at what aging does to Cersei ! ^^4)Lastly , there is much greater evidence to support the fact that the septa is actually tyene's mother not Ashara dayne...Again, Tyene is blonde... neither Lemore nor Oberyn are blonde.And I dont buy the theory that Ashara is the mother of (fake ?) Aegon.So maybe Lemore is Ashara and Aegon is not her son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dayne Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I know I am going to get crucified about this because of the timeline, but anyway...My theory was that Brandon went with Ashara at Harrenhal and made Jon Snow. Rhaegar and Lyanna had a baby and it was Edric Dayne (named by Lyanna for her brother). In the books Jon is in the 15/16 year range. Ned gets Edric at the TOJ. Possibly a year or two between Harrenhal and the TOJ? I am not sure. Ned brings Edric to Starfall when he returns Dawn. He tells the Dayne to raise and protect Edric like he is one of their own. Rhaegar was Arthur's best friend. He takes Jon as his brother's son/hostage to be raised with the Starks. Ashara is upset about her losing her baby, brother, and her lover's family causing this turmoil, she takes her life.We know Jon and Edric both had the same wet nurse, so they had to have been at Starfall. Edric is supposedly 12, but that is from Arya's POV. He could be a year or two older. He is a squire.Remember Arya's heart jumped when someone called Ned and it was Edric. Also, she stated Gendry (Robert's son) disliked Edric (Rhaegar's son). Edric also is portrayed by Arya as a reluctant warrior, also Rhaegar traits. Silver blond hair and purple blue eyes.Just my thought. Now for the comments.....Ned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 My theory was that Brandon went with Ashara at Harrenhal and made Jon Snow. Rhaegar and Lyanna had a baby and it was Edric Dayne (named by Lyanna for her brother).This theory can be discarded because forces Jon's conception to happen before Brandon's death. And if this was the case, Cat (and no one) would be fooled into believing that Jon is younger than Robb (who was conceived in the middle of the war). With little babies, a difference of one year is easily noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dayne Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 This theory can be discarded because forces Jon's conception to happen before Brandon's death. And if this was the case, Cat (and no one) would be fooled into believing that Jon is younger than Robb (who was conceived in the middle of the war). With little babies, a difference of one year is easily noticeable.What is the time frame between Harrenhal and when Brandon was killed? I thought Robb was conceived before Ned left for war after Brandon's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 What is the time frame between Harrenhal and when Brandon was killed? I thought Robb was conceived before Ned left for war after Brandon's death.Robb was conceived once Edd married Cat, which was in the middle of the war. In the same ceremony Jon Arryn married Lysa Tully, and with this two unions the rebels ensured that the Tullys joined the war at their side (they had been neutrals up to this point).We don't have the exact timeline of the war. In general terms we know the Year of the False Spring (Tourney of Harrenhal) is 281, and the war ends by 283 (Jaime enters the KG at 15 and kills Aerys at 17).But even if we don't have the exact timing, we can't say that all those things happened between Brandon's capture and Robb's conception:-Brandon goes to KL and demands to see Rhaegar. Aerys seizes him.-Aerys demands to Rickard Stark and all the fathers of Brandon's companions to come to KL. The message has to reach them, and then they all have to travel from their lands to the capital (most of them live in the North or in the Vale).-After some time, all fathers and sons get killed.-Aerys demands to Jon Arryn the heads of Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon. Jon Arryn refuses and calls his banners.-Civil war in the Vale. Jon Arryn has a decisive victory against the Targaryen loyalists in Gulltown.-Ned returns to the North to raise his banners. He gets shipwrecked and ends at the Three Sisters, from where he obtains passage to the White Harbor.-Ned raises his banners, and goes South to join his companions in the war.-This is the earlier point at which Eddard would be able to marry Catelyn (on the wedding night Robb was conceived).All the events described in that list would take, at the very minimum, six months (IMO it's more likely that it took about a year). That's why I find it really, really hard to believe that a potential son of Brandon could pass as younger than Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Also, she stated Gendry (Robert's son) disliked Edric (Rhaegar's son).I hate it when things are supposed to get that symbolic ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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