A Roose Bolton Appreciation Thread

[Konrad Richtmark]

My point is he couldn't have possibly made the decisions he did knowing he'd be put in this situation. People defend Roose by saying he was picking the lesser of two evils but that isn't remotely true. He wanted to be Warden of the North, took his shot and condemned himself to death. All his decisions stemmed from Tywin having his back, the moment he died Roose's whole world fell apart. He sees the writing on the wall and no doubt realizes he made a mistake now, but its already way too late to save himself.

Well, he hasn't quite condemned himself to death, just put himself in a precarious situation. Roose's position worsened a lot because of Tywin's death and Stannis's appearance in the North, but those are unlucky occurrences that nobody could have foreseen. His betrayal was a good move given the circumstances, that's a fact that stands regardless of how subsequent strokes of bad luck drastically worsened his position.

Making the gamble where statistically the odds are the best you can get but losing due to bad luck does not mean you did an irrational decision, let alone imply that you are an idiot. No more than making a gamble with bad odds but winning due to luck implies that you are a genius.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Well, he hasn't quite condemned himself to death, just put himself in a precarious situation. Roose's position worsened a lot because of Tywin's death and Stannis's appearance in the North, but those are unlucky occurrences that nobody could have foreseen. His betrayal was a good move given the circumstances, that's a fact that stands regardless of how subsequent strokes of bad luck drastically worsened his position.

Making the gamble where statistically the odds are the best you can get but losing due to bad luck does not mean you did an irrational decision, let alone imply that you are an idiot. No more than making a gamble with bad odds but winning due to luck implies that you are a genius.

You can't really think he's going to survive this. Saying he's in a precarious posituin is a gross understatement. Him being an idiot is entirely my opinion, true. But saying the odds were in Roose's favor isn't true. The truth of what he did would always be the sword hanging over his head. Its just a matter of time.

[The Marquis de Leech]

How is Roose an idiot? Robb had condemned himself through a trilogy of idiocy (claiming a crown, sending Theon home, and then screwing over the Freys). Roose wanted to be on the winning side, and Starks were already doomed by the time of the Red Wedding.

[Erkan12]

How is Roose an idiot? Robb had condemned himself through a trilogy of idiocy (claiming a crown, sending Theon home, and then screwing over the Freys). Roose wanted to be on the winning side, and Starks were already doomed by the time of the Red Wedding.

He is idiot because he thinks he can rule the north.

[Konrad Richtmark]

You can't really think he's going to survive this. Saying he's in a precarious posituin is a gross understatement. Him being an idiot is entirely my opinion, true. But saying the odds were in Roose's favor isn't true. The truth of what he did would always be the sword hanging over his head. Its just a matter of time.

During normal times, sure, but the times weren't normal, nor did they seem like they would become normal any time soon. The military strength of the North was depleted, every noble who had proclaimed Robb as king was guilty of treason, and ironmen were still invading and already held pretty much the entire Western coast. Oh, and winter was coming too. Submitting to Roose's overlordship was the key to peace with the Iron Throne, something the North needed to be able to fight the ironmen. Thus the Northern lords bitterly bend the knee to Roose, and he knows this. Also, in strict terms of hard power, Roose and his Frey allies probably have enough forces to match whatever scraps of military might remain in the hands of Roose's new vassals.

[The Marquis de Leech]

He is idiot because he thinks he can rule the north.

Roose's plan of getting Ramsay and Fake Arya to produce a Stark heir (then presumably offing Ramsay) was perfectly reasonable. Not least because if necessary he could always dump the Lannisters and claim he was duped via Fake Arya ("I'm shocked, shocked!").

Combine this with the lack of available genuine Starks, the necessity of getting rid of the Ironborn ahead of winter, and the fact that his forces outnumber those who are grumpy at him, Roose is fine.

[Erkan12]

Roose's plan of getting Ramsay and Fake Arya to produce a Stark heir (then presumably offing Ramsay) was perfectly reasonable. Not least because if necessary he could always dump the Lannisters and claim he was duped via Fake Arya ("I'm shocked, shocked!").

Combine this with the lack of available genuine Starks, the necessity of getting rid of the Ironborn ahead of winter, and the fact that his forces outnumber those who are grumpy at him, Roose is fine.

No, if he is in south maybe, Freys have better chance for Riverlands, but North remembers...

Boltons are sure scary and strong in North but only Starks can rule the north under one power, Boltons have no potential for that.

[The Marquis de Leech]

No, if he is in south maybe, Freys have better chance for Riverlands, but North remembers...

Boltons are sure scary and strong in North but only Starks can rule the north under one power, Boltons have no potential for that.

And as far as most people know, there ain't no Starks out there, save for Fake Arya. Roose wants a Bolton with "Stark" blood to rule the North.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

And as far as most people know, there ain't no Starks out there, save for Fake Arya. Roose wants a Bolton with "Stark" blood to rule the North.

Roose and Ramsay know Rickon and Bran are still alive. Ramsay is even offering a reward for Wolf skins. And the rest of the Northern lords know the boys are probably on the lam with the Reeds and that "Arya" is an imposter. Roose's plan is seriously flawed and he's probably just NOW seeing that.

[Erkan12]

Roose and Ramsay know Rickon and Bran are still alive. Ramsay is even offering a reward for Wolf skins. And the rest of the Northern lords know the boys are probably on the lam with the Reeds and that "Arya" is an imposter.

:agree:

And using Frey troops in North another stupidity.

[Konrad Richtmark]

Roose's plan of getting Ramsay and Fake Arya to produce a Stark heir (then presumably offing Ramsay) was perfectly reasonable. Not least because if necessary he could always dump the Lannisters and claim he was duped via Fake Arya ("I'm shocked, shocked!").

Combine this with the lack of available genuine Starks, the necessity of getting rid of the Ironborn ahead of winter, and the fact that his forces outnumber those who are grumpy at him, Roose is fine.

Roose isn't likely to off Ramsay. In a conversation with Theon (or someone else, but heard by POV Theon) Roose laments how Ramsay is the only thing he has left, that he'll not likely live long enough to see any of his possible children through Fat Walda reach maturity. And that he fully expects Ramsay to try to assassinate the kids, but that it's probably for the best since an underage Lord of the Dreadfort would likely be the undoing of House Bolton.

The only way I can see Roose off Ramsay is if Ramsay tries to assassinate Roose to speed up his succession, in which case Ramsay would have become too much of a liability to be kept around, child Lords be damned. Heck, Roose didn't off Ramsay when he originally found out he had impregnated his mother. Even Roose Bolton fears the curse of the kinslayer. If Roose was deterred from offing Ramsay then, he's even more deterred from doing so now when Ramsay is his only viable heir.

[Jamie Lannister]

He is idiot because he thinks he can rule the north.

A fair few northern lords are fine with his rule. By their own admission, they can deal with Roose as an overlord and they've all known worse. Ramsay is the problem.

[Zaphodess]

Roose isn't likely to off Ramsay. In a conversation with Theon (or someone else, but heard by POV Theon) Roose laments how Ramsay is the only thing he has left, that he'll not likely live long enough to see any of his possible children through Fat Walda reach maturity. And that he fully expects Ramsay to try to assassinate the kids, but that it's probably for the best since an underage Lord of the Dreadfort would likely be the undoing of House Bolton.

The only way I can see Roose off Ramsay is if Ramsay tries to assassinate Roose to speed up his succession, in which case Ramsay would have become too much of a liability to be kept around, child Lords be damned. Heck, Roose didn't off Ramsay when he originally found out he had impregnated his mother. Even Roose Bolton fears the curse of the kinslayer. If Roose was deterred from offing Ramsay then, he's even more deterred from doing so now when Ramsay is his only viable heir.

Now that's something I wouldn't take on face value. Why would Roose tell Theon what he really thinks? Imo, he wants this to get back to Ramsay, either to scare him off or to make him over-confident. If he really plans on a Bolton dynasty, he needs to get rid of fake Arya and Ramsay as soon as they have given him an heir with a claim.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

A peaceful land, a quiet people. I hope he survives.

Speak softly and carry a sharp flaying knife!! :thumbsup:

I LOVE THE ROOSE, I just can't help it. The more we see and HEAR from him, the more compelling he becomes. I do want him justice done before the story is over, but I can't help but hope that he lasts until the end.

The more I reread, the more.......I try to pay attention to just when and WHY Roose turned, how much of it was circumstance and Ramsey forcing his hand, how much of it was the position Robb put him in as things became more difficult for The Northern Cause, and how much of it was pure ROOSE ambition. I do think lots of the reasons are striking combination of all the above and maybe even more. I need The Roose to last long enough to answer some of these questions for me.

LOVE HIM and LOVE THE GUY who plays him on the series, he is PERFECT!! I want many more years with both ROOSES, I hope the Leeches make an appearance eventually, too. :wub:

[Konrad Richtmark]

Now that's something I wouldn't take on face value. Why would Roose tell Theon what he really thinks? Imo, he wants this to get back to Ramsay, either to scare him off or to make him over-confident. If he really plans on a Bolton dynasty, he needs to get rid of fake Arya and Ramsay as soon as they have given him an heir with a claim.

Why would Roose tell Theon? Honestly, I think it's just for narrative purposes. GRRM wants to show what Roose thinks, but might have some reason not to write a full Roose POV chapter (though that would be an awesome thing indeed).

Is there something implausible with the notion that Roose indeed intends to use Ramsay for the Bolton dynasty? Roose knows well enough how unsuited Ramsay is to be a ruler, but maybe he still thinks he can straighten out Ramsay. Or at least considers that to be a better bet than counting on his prunes and leeches to keep him alive for long enough to get another adult heir.

[Erkan12]

A fair few northern lords are fine with his rule. By their own admission, they can deal with Roose as an overlord and they've all known worse. Ramsay is the problem.

You are talking about different thing. Robett Glover and a knight from WH said that. But he didn't meant this. He said, Boltons always cunning and cruel but Ramsay is monster. Roose is not like this of course.

I meant no one bow to Boltons as long as they conquer all of them or keep their hostages. Sure they are strong but why they should bow to them ? Umbers, Manderlys, Karstarks, Mormonts maybe even Reeds are not weaker than Boltons. Starks has over 1000 year more domination in north, they won their loyalty with friendship on long history. While Boltons flay their skin. Boltons never played big like this, we will see Roose can deal with it or not.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I love Roose. He's evil and doesn't give a shit. The man wears pink and talks quietly, but people stop and listen whenever he speaks.

[Northbound]

I love Roose. He's evil and doesn't give a shit. The man wears pink and talks quietly, but people stop and listen whenever he speaks.

"The loudest guy in the room, is the one you fear the least."

[Zaphodess]

Is there something implausible with the notion that Roose indeed intends to use Ramsay for the Bolton dynasty? Roose knows well enough how unsuited Ramsay is to be a ruler, but maybe he still thinks he can straighten out Ramsay. Or at least considers that to be a better bet than counting on his prunes and leeches to keep him alive for long enough to get another adult heir.

Yes, it is highly implausible. Ramsay even managed to drive fake Arya to flee from him, so the plan to get a 'legitimate' claim on Winterfell went out of the window. He burnt Winterfell down when he took it instead of keeping it intact for the Bolton dynasty.

If Roose has any sense at all, he would have killed Ramsay as soon as fake Arya was pregnant and let her die in childbed. Or he lets him kill off fat Walda and her offspring, sentence Ramsay to death for it and marry fake Arya himself afterwards. (the second plan is probably better, less risk that the claim child doesn't survive and no bastard stain on his/her family tree.) Why should he fear that he doesn't manage to live another 15 or 20 years to raise an heir if he still believes he can pull off the take-over?

[Sweet-N-SourRobin]

The crowd isn't BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOing.

They're yelling ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE.

:P

Bolton may not be the best villain left in ASOIAF (Cersei still has something to say) but damned if Roose isn't the most fun.

EDIT: and how could I forget him giving some of the sagest advice in the series?

"Fear is what keeps a man alive in this world of treachery and deceit."

I wish I'd written that. Love GRRM for it.