Dany's Reaction to Quentyn & would Dany have liked Quentyn if he was hot?

[Serie]

We dont know that thou, if he has the blood of the dragon in him, and if the TP theory is right, then he is quite the rider. And i dont think she is looking for a rider, she has enough friends as it is. what she needs is an army and lords and castles (which Dorne has next to none of)

to me its seems that having Targ blood doesn't necessarily make you a dragon rider. But I agree, I don't think that finding dragon riders at that point was her main concern. Lets not forget that she kept her dragons chained and almost forgotten.

[WenchofTarth]

HE DID!!! Of course, you blame him for that too.

He was perfectly willing to spend time with her, to the extent she permitted. He showed up on the even of her wedding. And then she flew off on Drogon. The situation was what it was.

I never said you should. But blaming him is silly.

Of course, he came up with something on the fly that was completely ridiculous and outright stupid

He was impatient and entitled is what it was

Blaming him is easy as he made so many foolish mistakes and assumptions he brought things on himself

[imany]

1. She didn't have to kill the hostages. But telling the Harpy of Meereen (the one who "treated her quite kindly face to face" and was working to destroy her behind the scenes) that she would not kill the hostages was about the stupidest thing she could have done. It all but said, "Do whatever you want, I won't go through with my threat." Having hostages only works if your enemies are convinced that you will carry out your threat if they misbehave (look at Theon and Ned). Telling suspiciously friendly old ladies that you're only taking hostages for the lulz kind of defeats the purpose of having them.

The Green Grace was not suspicious to Dany. She felt that this was another influential woman who wanted peace. It's quite possible and even likely that the Green Grace is the Harpy, but she would not be a very good Harpy if Dany had caught on based on their private conversations. The way I am reading this, you are angry Dany wasn't more suspicious of her. Misplaced trust is not the same as actively acting like an idiot.

2. It irks me to no end when people talk about sacking the cities as if it's something that happened to her -- like she's a passive player -- instead of something she actively did. She broke it, she bought it.

Perhaps I was unclear. I never said Dany was passive, simply that she had good reason for what she was doing. There aren't a lot of good and honorable ways to deal with guerrilla tactics, especially if you're essentially an outsider. Taking a break from conquest does not equal passivity. Dany was trying to fix it, hence the marriage to Hizdahr and the implementation of the Brazen Beasts.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The Green Grace was not suspicious to Dany. She felt that this was another influential woman who wanted peace. It's quite possible and even likely that the Green Grace is the Harpy, but she would not be a very good Harpy if Dany had caught on based on their private conversations. The way I am reading this, you are angry Dany wasn't more suspicious of her. Misplaced trust is not the same as actively acting like an idiot.

Actually, yes, I think she should have been more suspicious of the Green Grace and I think it's an issue that she wasn't. She's already been betrayed by one seemingly benevolent matronly lady -- why would she blindly trust another? The Green Grace is part of Meereen's higher social and political echelon, which Dany is actively working to undermine and in some cases destroy. The Sons of the Harpy are all supposed to be Meereenese nobles. The Green Grace's own family members were on the losing end of some of Dany's ruling decisions, and those freed weavers ended up dead in a Harpy attack. Dany marries Hizdahr and the fighting stops. But who is it who suggests in the first place that she should marry Hizdahr? The Green Grace. The people in Astapor impaled their Green Grace when she led them to destruction. But the Sons of the Harpy have yet to inflict any violence on their own Green Grace, who appears to be helping Dany. Why? The Green Grace seems to have remarkably accurate and early information about Harpy attacks. Dany asked the Green Grace to give up information on Sons of the Harpy members who are treated for wounds at the temple, yet no information ever surfaces. Go back and read -- between the lines, as some of it is spoken politely or eloquently -- and see what the Green Grace actually says to Dany. It's pretty clear: You're an invader here, we don't like you, you're crazy if you think we're giving up our culture for you, etc.

Any one or two or three of those issues should have made someone perk up or at least bother to ask some questions. Dany ends the book still thinking this woman is one of her strongest allies. She might not be a total idiot, but she's a terrible judge of character. Imagine her dealing with an Olenna Tyrell. And for supposedly working to knock down patriarchy, she never thinks that the Harpy -- despite, derp, being mythologically female -- could be a woman, and surely not this sweet little old lady.

Perhaps I was unclear. I never said Dany was passive, simply that she had good reason for what she was doing. There aren't a lot of good and honorable ways to deal with guerrilla tactics, especially if you're essentially an outsider. Taking a break from conquest does not equal passivity. Dany was trying to fix it, hence the marriage to Hizdahr and the implementation of the Brazen Beasts.

The way to combat guerrilla tactics is to never put yourself in a position where you're forced to face them. Barring that, you don't exacerbate the problem by killing several dozens nobles via crucifixion while leaving the rest of them intact (read: willing and able to come after you), putting your own foreign people in charge of the locals and, you know, torturing people.

[Lord Godric]

... what? That isn't why she rejected Quentyn, although the fact that he was not hot probably made the whole thing easier for her. Daario was unwise, but she was never going to defect on the marriage to Hizdahr after it had been arranged.

Dany so flippantly rejects Quentyn that she makes it clear regardless of her political arrangment in Meereen, she wouldn't pick him because he is boring and not attractive. And just the fact that she is more willing to engage in a marriage for Meereen's peace as opposed to seriously considering the best chance she has at getting a foothold back in Westeros is what frustrates me. She ignores Westeros, she has completely lost sight of her former goals to stay in Meereen because she has quite the life with a paramour and a pyramid.

When this point of view is presented on the forums, I become confused as to what Dany was expected to do. Take the advice of the Shavepate and actually kill the hostages? Not listen to the Green Grace, who has treated her quite kindly face to face? She sacked three cities and needed a place to rest; I can't really fault her for crying uncle after all the shit that was happening. It's tough to fight against guerrilla tactics.

Whatever Dany did or didn't do, you can not say she was a good leader or learned anything about ruling. The only major move she made to secure the peace of the city was engage in a marriage that effectively did nothing. This could have been a great oppurtunity to learn how to put down rebellion, instead it was an annoying tangent that accomplished nothing.

Dany is learning, I hope. That or she's taking Drogon and the khalasar back to raze the city. Either one would be fine with me.

My bet is on the latter, and it pisses me off that it took an entire book to learn that point.

[Fearsome Fred]

Of course, he came up with something on the fly that was completely ridiculous and outright stupid

Like walking into a bonfire?

[Faint]

Getting this discussion back to Quentyn, it will be interesting to see how Daenerys reacts to the news that he has been killed by one of the dragons.

I suppose a lot depends on whether Archibald Yronwood and Gerris Drinkwater are successful in their mission.

If they are, and she returns to Meereen before they leave, perhaps the situation may be rectified to some extent. But what if they, too, are killed in the fighting? Or what if they leave before she gets back?

In some ways, as terrible as it is to say it, it might be better if they are killed so that Daenerys can concoct whatever story she chooses to explain away Quentyn’s fate. Then again, it would be hard for me to envision Daenerys lying to Doran or Arianne Martell about Quentyn’s death.

The worst situation, obviously, is if Yronwood and Drinkwater leave before she gets back and tell Doran their own version of events.

And even if Yronwood and Drinkwater are still there when she gets back, what does she tell them to salvage an alliance with Dorne?

[teemo]

I can see Dany being really sad and call Quentyn one of her "children" or something and she can't believe he died like that, and feel a lot of pity for him.

[Fire_Kiss]

I can see Dany being really sad and call Quentyn one of her "children" or something and she can't believe he died like that, and feel a lot of pity for him.

I can see this too. I doubt she wanted Quentyn to die.

As an aside, I feel she is going to be (initally) pissed at Barriston the Badass for imprisoning Hizdahr. Though she is going to get over it.

[LittleAndLess]

I think Q wouldve had much more success if, instead of being super-fine, he had brought some arms to show that he could back up his claims of 50,000 (!) spears. As committed as the Mother might be to her 'children', I also feel that Dany was a bit desperate and trapped in her Knot. She had committed to a marriage she clearly has no true desire to enter because of the promise of stability. This is Dany trying to do the right thing at the cost to her own personal happiness. Ideally, she would not have to marry anyone in Essos if she had the army/ships she will need to invade Westeros. Her marriage to Chubby H is a move of desperation.

In walks Quentyn, at a time where Dany really wouldve LOVED to see one of the Seven Kingdoms arrive with a formidable fleet and bring about a true martial alliance. But instead of entering as a savior, Quentyn arrives like another petitioner. Handsome or not, Quentyn was destined to fail because he wasn't impressive.

If we look at Dany's sexual experiences, they are with impressive people. Khal Drogo had never lost a battle, had a super-braid that exemplifies his power. Daario is cocky as shit, ridiculously outlandish, yet is impressive in his gross, Jersey Shore way. (btw, I now pcture his weapons to have a fat gold naked Snookie for handles!).

This is why I think Victarion is going to be successful, handsome or not. He's got ships, he's got a potential dragon-controlling horn, he's got creepy BAMF swagger. Dany is going to be butter in his salty hands.

[Lady Blackfyre]

And even if Yronwood and Drinkwater are still there when she gets back, what does she tell them to salvage an alliance with Dorne?

She could give them a dragon? :P

Seriously now, there's one thing I have been wondering. Doran must have considered the possibility of Quentyn not coming back, right? I mean, it's a very long way to Meereen, and a lot of (bad) things can happen in a lenghty sea journey like that. How much do you think Doran was actually expecting Quentyn to return? I don't mean he purposefully sent his son in a suicidal mission, but I'm not sure if we're overestimating Doran's reaction when he learns Quentyn failed and got himself killed.

[Faint]

I can see Dany being really sad and call Quentyn one of her "children" or something and she can't believe he died like that, and feel a lot of pity for him.

I can see this too. I doubt she wanted Quentyn to die.

I don't doubt she'll feel bad about it but what about dealing with its ramifications?

You also have to consider that, based on her last chapter, Daenerys has switched course and is now probably actively trying to get to Westeros. Indeed, she might even want to marry Quentyn at this point, not knowing he is dead. I'm betting 50,000 Dornish spears sounds great just about now.

[teemo]

I'm betting 50,000 Dornish spears sounds great just about now.

This!!! Oops.

[PatrickStormborn]

If Quentyn had have shown up with enough military power to help Dany get out of Meereen, she probably would have bitten his arm off and gone with him (after sorting everything out). Instead he showed up with two bodyguards, because Doran was too scared to come up with an effective plan. Compare this with Victarion, who is showing up with the Iron Fleet to help Daenerys.

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

I imagine she'll be saddened by his death but also angered he tried to steal her dragon and subsequently released them upon "her" people. i doubt it will have much impact on her. He wasn't anything to her. im curious as to whether Daario is well and truly dead (via catapult) or if he managed to save himself perhaps through traitorous means.

[dark sister]

I just wonder, if Quentyn was some hottie like Daario (well, in Dany's eyes), would she have done the same thing? Or "Wow, this guy really looks like a prince. Maybe I should reconsider this marriage to Hizdahr..."?

Weirdly enough, I think Dany, like everyone else, enjoys attractive people, but on the other hand, she seems horny enough to be tempted to have sex with a gay guy (Xaro on one of his ambassador visits ["let me help convince you." for a moment, she was tempted]). Hizdahr only seems moderately handsome, prob about as handsome as Q is.

I think she was exasperated more than disrespecting Quenten. She had a large army right outside her walls and for all his talk of 50,000 spears (which they don't have), it would make little difference is they were killed in Mereen overrun by enemies with all of the 3 people they offered to help. The "cuter" comment was thrown in just to show us once again that she is a teenage girl, she thought it would be suicide to drop her marriage to Hizdar and just thought that Quenten wasn't the guy to die for love for (potentially, considering she just met him)

I agree, but as I explain below, I don't think it would be suicide for her to drop her marriage to Hiz. She's broken her word before. I believe she had other options.

What I can't wrap my head around concerning Dany is the way she acts sometimes in political situations.

On the one hand, she laughs at Quentyn the first time she meets him, but doesn't explain the "joke" in the Common Tongue, then reads the parchment sealing their marriage, and "feels a chill" (I remember her thinking seriously if she should consider this proposal because of the way it made her feel). Then she says that she can't marry Q because she's already engaged to Hizdahr - but before, she coyly said to Hiz that if he can keep violence from breaking out, she MIGHT marry him, or she might just ask for another magic sword and such nonsense. Ok, that's fine, but in Astapor, shepromised one of her dragons to the slavers, but then betrayed them. That was a coldly calculated decision.

Meanwhile, she seems so wrapped up in maintaining Meereen, as others have pointed out, that she seems to remember Westeros once every month or so. Then, Daario gives her some good advice, Red Wedding style -- pretend to marry Hiz, get all the people out of the pyramids, and slaughter them. That would be an effective end to the shadow war of the Harpy's Sons. Kill Hizdahr while they're at it.

So basically, what's really confusing to me, is why she can make such coldly manipulative moves sometimes, but then other times she wants to act with honor and keep her promises. Why does she give a flying fuck whether she keeps her promise to Hizdahr? Again, as other people have pointed out, Westeros would HATE the idea of some "savage" eastern king from a place they never heard of. Worst of all, HE WOULD BE KING - all of Westeros is used to having a king, especially a Targaryen king, never a queen, since Rhaenyra tried and the catastrophe of the Dance.

If Dany eventually remembered "oh it's time to go back to Westeros now, with my King, who is possibly the Harpy, in tow" -- not to mention thousands of Unsullied slave eunuchs -- I highly doubt she would be welcomed with open arms.

IF, however, she sucked it up and married Quentyn, who does have Targ blood, she'd have the most stubborn of the 7 kingdoms on her side, people could probably overlook all the Unsullied [and other foreigners] she brought with her, and all the Houses who were loyal to Targs would welcome her.

It's just frustrating to me that she won't make up her mind about how she will act as a ruler. Sometimes she tries to be Rhaegar (we have the famous quotation from Jorah to remind her how he died by acting honorable) and sometimes she tries to be kinda like Tywin.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Weirdly enough, I think Dany, like everyone else, enjoys attractive people, but on the other hand, she seems horny enough to be tempted to have sex with a gay guy (Xaro on one of his ambassador visits ["let me help convince you." for a moment, she was tempted]). Hizdahr only seems moderately handsome, prob about as handsome as Q is.

I agree, but as I explain below, I don't think it would be suicide for her to drop her marriage to Hiz. She's broken her word before. I believe she had other options.

What I can't wrap my head around concerning Dany is the way she acts sometimes in political situations.

On the one hand, she laughs at Quentyn the first time she meets him, but doesn't explain the "joke" in the Common Tongue, then reads the parchment sealing their marriage, and "feels a chill" (I remember her thinking seriously if she should consider this proposal because of the way it made her feel). Then she says that she can't marry Q because she's already engaged to Hizdahr - but before, she coyly said to Hiz that if he can keep violence from breaking out, she MIGHT marry him, or she might just ask for another magic sword and such nonsense. Ok, that's fine, but in Astapor, shepromised one of her dragons to the slavers, but then betrayed them. That was a coldly calculated decision.

Meanwhile, she seems so wrapped up in maintaining Meereen, as others have pointed out, that she seems to remember Westeros once every month or so. Then, Daario gives her some good advice, Red Wedding style -- pretend to marry Hiz, get all the people out of the pyramids, and slaughter them. That would be an effective end to the shadow war of the Harpy's Sons. Kill Hizdahr while they're at it.

So basically, what's really confusing to me, is why she can make such coldly manipulative moves sometimes, but then other times she wants to act with honor and keep her promises. Why does she give a flying fuck whether she keeps her promise to Hizdahr? Again, as other people have pointed out, Westeros would HATE the idea of some "savage" eastern king from a place they never heard of. Worst of all, HE WOULD BE KING - all of Westeros is used to having a king, especially a Targaryen king, never a queen, since Rhaenyra tried and the catastrophe of the Dance.

If Dany eventually remembered "oh it's time to go back to Westeros now, with my King, who is possibly the Harpy, in tow" -- not to mention thousands of Unsullied slave eunuchs -- I highly doubt she would be welcomed with open arms.

IF, however, she sucked it up and married Quentyn, who does have Targ blood, she'd have the most stubborn of the 7 kingdoms on her side, people could probably overlook all the Unsullied [and other foreigners] she brought with her, and all the Houses who were loyal to Targs would welcome her.

It's just frustrating to me that she won't make up her mind about how she will act as a ruler. Sometimes she tries to be Rhaegar (we have the famous quotation from Jorah to remind her how he died by acting honorable) and sometimes she tries to be kinda like Tywin.

You make good points. What I wonder is if the loss of her best advisor can be attributed into her bigger than normal in comparison to the past failures in Mereen. Not saying that she doesn't deserve merit for her previous successes but she also had Jorah Mormont to advice her so at least partially that must have played some role. Though to be honest Mormont although his advice can make Danny more efficient his advice would make Danny a more efficient conqueror and not a better liberator. She also wants to rule and to bring prosperity. Mormont advice could be helpful but he would mostly be advising her to conquer Westeros.

Those contradictory aspects of her personality sort of remind me her little story in Game of Thrones. She wants the Dothraki to conquer Westeros for her because she believes she is entitled to it but that would happen through fire and blood and suffering. But on the other hand she wants to show compassion to the ones that Drogo's army caused suffering to and tries to save them as much as possible and even trust MMD. But it is kind of pointless at that point to save them as they have already lost everything due to the Dothraki of her husband.

She sees in herself being a monster but she doesn't like what she sees. She causes a lot of suffering yet she wants to be known as liberator of slaves, (or mother of them). There is an anthithesis between the part of her who wants to be an efficient monster (ala Tywin) and the other that is more idealistic and compassionate.

I actually don't think that it would be for her benefit if she succumbed to her to put in a cliche manner, dark side. Or at least it wouldn't be for the benefit of Essos and Westeros. I actually think that Danny will bring fire and blood and end up killed by Barristan and end up as a rather interesting tragic figure, though that is another matter I am diverting from the topic.

Anyway, those contradictions of her personality make her an interesting character to me, though an inefficient one in Mereen so far and I admit her storyline there for the most part was kind of boring.

[reek it rhymes with meek]

Quentyn is hot, if he is not then arriane cannot be. I saw pictures of quentyn and daario, and those artist really draw them as they are described in the books. Daario is just puke ugly as GRRM is and quentyn is hot super super super hot

[Arkash]

Yeah, I truly wonder how Dany will emotionally react to the news of the deaths... I guess she'll be sad a realize her mistakes and the waste it was.

[reek it rhymes with meek]

here are the pictures

http://www.henningludvigsen.com/images/uploads/artwork/agot_Quentyn_Martell.jpg

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/1/1f/Daario_Naharis.jpg/250px-Daario_Naharis.jpg

Compared to her fetish daario quentyn is hot as dragon breath... oh wait :cool4: