Mafia Mini 87.5 - Trouble at Wittlich - Game Ended.

[Gertrude]

Over explain much? WIFOM? Oh tammy...

You've explained that you think this is over-explanation, but not why you think it's overdone. Can you explain to me what tripped alarms?

Whiskeyjack is seems to be opening with the too chaotic/out there to be FM schtick. Lame. What do you think about his opening posts Tammytamtam?

On a scale from 1-5, how serious was this vote, Monday?

Now.. You are the one that's giving me the headache...

Why is me calling out Monday giving you a headache?

[Gertrude]

Monday; It's not 'defending' it's killing of an illogical reasons people have for their votes.

Eh ... it was defending.

BBmolla

He is a werewolf that cannot understand a joke. Of course it didn't work someone said very mean words about it (lame). He voted for me, From my 20 previous mafia games trends show that person who initially votes for me is 85% likely to be the killer. And you did do the same thing

And the question to you - on a scale from 1-5, how serious is this vote?

Have to admit, I don't like the vote and the reason doesn't appear to be serious.

Of the votes on BBmolla, SnowStorm's doesn't bother me as much as Arthur's. Arthur's seems lazy. He's always struck me as someone who strikes out in his own direction.

Sophie and Ethan I have just about no read at all. Nothing much to go on. While I can see Regfan's point that Sophie feels mechanical, I can also see it as not really knowing what to do or look for. I'm probably going to let Sophie and Ethan slide for today unless something else about them crops up.

[Regfan]

A newer player like Expecto probably saw me use it in the past, saw that I caught a few FM that way, and decided to try to apply it himself. But he clearly used it wrong. The relevant question here is if he was kind of clueless or if he did it because he's evil. Personally, I'm leaning toward the latter and suspect him for it. I'm in the process of replying to the new stuff. But the short answer is yeah, I don't like Monday or Expecto at all. I think some strong points have been made against both of them. And I think their recent interaction looks like distancing (which I'll get to in a second), so I could actually see them as a team.

I have a few reservations about Expecto being scum. The first and strongest one is that he legitimately seems to not have read my massive post on him and not noticed that I had voted him. I think scum are a lot more likely to keep close watch of the vote count and how many as well as who is voting them whereas town are a lot more carefree when it comes to that and since a few vote counts were posted between my vote and his realization of it I think that leads towards him being likely town. I also find his 'emotional outburst' so to speak to be some form of town tell and I think as scum he'd have wanted to appease me by answering my questions rather than ignoring them knowing I would bring them up again. Though I do see your point about an Expecto-Monday team being possible and would consider Expecto as likely scum if Monday were to flip mafia, until then I actually think he's town.

*sighs*

1. IF I KNEW WHY THEY WERE HARD TO UNDERSTAND I WOULD SAY IT AND/OR UNDERSTAND THEM. I said it.. I read you and I don't get your points... you say a lot without actually saying anything.. it's like you're just mixing words for the sake of it which makes me believe you are just fake case building =S

2. No, English is not my native language. Mind you. And no, I don't analyze what I write.. because I just do that.. I write whatever flows in my head. And I did write below THAT post that it was going to be strange to read because as I wrote it it seemed like so. But again, I was lazy to go back and edit it. And yes, I did take this to be rather rude of you. I would justify myself into why I think my english is not bad at all, but heck.. I'm not going to go into such discussions in a game. This is not what I'm here for. I'm here to enjoy myself, and that is what I intend to do.

1. See, this is why I have/had an issue with you. No one else in the room has had issue reading my posts at all. No one. My votes are not that complicated and I try avoiding using words and phrases that are difficult to understand so when you just blandly claim that I'm 'hard to understand' it makes little sense to me.

2. All you needed to say was that it wasn't your natural language but thank you for answering it.

Now that I'm feeling a lot better about Expecto I'm happy to move my vote towards Sophie. Her unvote in her post and no-revote as well as her complete lack of thoughts and analysis on Expecto when there was a lot to focus around him shows a complete lack of scumhunting on her part.

[Regfan]

Also I strongly despise the wagon on BBMolla, the entire reasoning behind the wagon seems to revolves around his vote on Ethan for misunderstanding the seriousness of his post, that's not a scum tell at all and his reaction towards the wagon on him and his reads make me a lot more certain of my town read on him.

Though right now my strongest town read is on Gertdude, partially for the reasons BBMolla stated but also because I find her thought process to be very similar towards mine and the strongest town tell I find for scum to fake is mimmicing a townies thought process. And when I say 'thought process', I mean things like questioning Monday, questioning Expecto and looking and reading into the emotions in 86.5.

[Gertrude]

Reg - what do you think of Monday?

[Regfan]

I'm conflicted on Monday. I can see the case of 'She backed down when pressured and never attempted to really defend her stance' and really dislike the fact that she copied the exact same question that I posed towards Expecto as it reeks of lack of individual scumhunting but I'm not sure if either of those are massive scum tells. I've heard that she often plays slightly erratic and illogical as town and that might be impacting my thoughts. I'll re-read her tonight though.

Heading out pubbing. Will be back in 7ish hours or so.

[Tammy]

You guys are boring. Gertrude has been around for awhile, posting here and there, but nothing serious or even semiserious. I'd have expected her to at least try and get things moving an eensy bit. Wish I could vote for her and Arthur.

Has this impression of Gertrude changed?

[Tammy]

Regfan - I agree with you on the BBMolla wagon and Gertrude being a strong town read, but I'm having difficulty with your Sophie vote. I understand where you're coming from in terms of her style seeming a bit mechanic, but the problem I'm having is that she's already explained that she's new. Sure she's read several games and is playing in a hydra at another site, but this is her first game here as she's already said. Does her newness have any impact on your vote?

[Tammy]

Tammy - again, wish I knew her style a bit more, but I'm getting a sense of a little forcedness. She's not as floaty and free flowing as I normally associate with her.

Eh, my style is not static. But, yeah, I did force mafia into a 12 hour workday :shrug: I should be able to be more helpful tomorrow...or today as it is.

[TheMalcolm]

Hi all.

Only player I suspect now is Monday, for same reasons already stated by others. Everybody else looks rather innocent.

And I agree Regfan's post are somewhat hard to read. Perhapf, because of too long paragraphs...

[Early Earl]

Good morning. Apparently I'm still allowed to do this, so

*ERRHHHmmmm* Listen up Townfolk and rally for the tally!

It is day 1

12 players remain: Whiskeyjack, Ethan Glover, Monday, Gertrude, Ser-Arthur-Dayne, SnowStorm, Sophie Baelish, Tammy, TheMalcolm, Regfan, Expecto Patronum, BBMolla.

7 votes are needed for a conviction or 6 to go to night.

3 votes for BBMolla (SnowStorm, Ser-Arthur-Dayne, Ethan Glover)

3 votes for Monday (Gertrude, Whiskeyjack, TheMalcolm)

1 vote for Expecto Patronum (Tammy)

1 vote for Ser-Arthur-Dayne (Monday)

1 vote for Regfan (Expecto Patronum)

1 vote for Ethan Glover (BBMolla)

1 vote for Sophie Baelish (Regfan)

1 player has not voted: Sophie Baelish.

[Monday]

Monday.....can you explain this? I actually agree that things like emoticons (and exclamation points!) can be indications of guilt, if the tone of the post looks awkward and nervous. I think I've made that argument a few times, and I'm wondering if you remembered that and it inspired your post against Arthur.

The problem is, a few people called you on making up your argument....and you admitted to it. Huh? Why did you make it up? What was the point? What were you trying to accomplish?

Dunno. I made up that Arthur doesn't usually use that many emoticons. I actually have no recollection of Arthur's usual emoticon posting frequency. Suppose I just wanted to add weight to my vote so he'd take it serious and respond in a way I could get a read from, like, rattle him a bit. Manufacture something worth talking about. Or...something?

Really stands out to me as suspicious. I'm kind of wondering if you've been caught bullshitting and just didn't know how to react.

That's fairly accurate. Reg caught me off guard. I was expecting to have a more meaningful exchange with Arthur, but the spaghetti I threw at the wall splattered back in my face a bit.

Has this impression of Gertrude changed?

The werelion jokes dried up, so yeah. Why? Doesn't she seem serious to you? Her thoughts below on you and Expecto are stolen right from my brain, so I like where her head is at.

I could vote Expecto or Tammy as well. Sadly, I don't know Expecto's style well enough to know his inno craziness from his evil craziness, but he is hard to follow, man, and looks ... I don't even know how to categorize it. That's kind of why I think I'd rather let him sit for a day and see how things shake out.

Tammy - again, wish I knew her style a bit more, but I'm getting a sense of a little forcedness. She's not as floaty and free flowing as I normally associate with her.

Ethan is a strange one. Like BB said, the only reason Ethan (who has 20 games worth of experience) is voting for him is because BB voted for Ethan.

Also, what is with that 85% statistic Ethan? That's a pretty wild number. Did you make it up? Are you some magic FM magnet? Why do think the FM vote for you so often? Is your early play style specifically geared to attract the votes of the FM? Is there a reason BB as FM would be more likely to vote you than if he were town?

[Monday]

Also Ethan, if you weren't voting for BB right now, who would you be voting for and why?

[Ethan Glover]

Good morning. Apparently I'm still allowed to do this, so

*ERRHHHmmmm* Listen up Townfolk and rally for the tally!

Morning

Ethan is a strange one. Like BB said, the only reason Ethan (who has 20 games worth of experience) is voting for him is because BB voted for Ethan.

Also, what is with that 85% statistic Ethan? That's a pretty wild number. Did you make it up? Are you some magic FM magnet? Why do think the FM vote for you so often? Is your early play style specifically geared to attract the votes of the FM? Is there a reason BB as FM would be more likely to vote you than if he were town?

I have only 2 full games of experience here, My main board for mafia is a private board with old friends called Utopia. The real issue is since I work unique hours as well as I make alot of jokes along the way it causes confusion especially since many westerosi do not know me well. And on Utopia i tend to be a scapegoat. The only reason I know this stat roughly is that over 20 games, I didn't get voted for twice and the third time I did it was what is referred to here as a roleless innocent. My reasoning behind my vote (very bad post organisation #141) was yes I did start posting on the sixth page because when I first got onto the board today although it was the sixth page and I like to open with a joke and sometimes some RP, why else would I say the Healer wasted his heal on Piper who committed suicide, And paraphase WJ saying he is a werewolf. My playing style is unique here that is why it gathers attention both good and bad.

Next Point. The way I have noticed the FM here they have a few common tactics

1. Lead the town against fake FM whilst they themselves are FM,

2. Find a Scapegoat and transfer the towns focus onto them

3. Stay as low as possible although always this has being done because of time zones among other things.

4. Fake claim and act as if they are CI

5. In big games earlier act as the lynch mob and convert followers.

Think about It every real day allows there to be 2 less cards in the deck. Even if they draw the attention away they allow it to be one more day of kills. BBMolla yes he did not understand the joke but I think he was scumhunting whether fake to draw attention away from himself and his partner or whether he was playing the game, I do not know the real reasoning behind it. I took it as the former since it appeared to me he analysed whether my inital post was serious or not yet his post after seemed to me as weird,

On another note I do not understand the process here If you slightly do not understand something you vote for them (One of the tactics I tried in that post)

Also Ethan, if you weren't voting for BB right now, who would you be voting for and why?

I don't know most likely I would of being holding my vote till closer to lynch. At the moment I cannot gather real reads on people.

Ethan any particular reason you are buddying Arthur?

Not acting as his buddy but since his name also appears in asoiaf similar to mine, I made a small joke about it referring to how trustworthy he is.

And the question to you - on a scale from 1-5, how serious is this vote?

A 3, initially it was a 2 but my gut is not starting to tell me that BB is scum (assuming 1 = nothing 5 = my soul

[Sophie Baelish]

I have a few reservations about Expecto being scum. The first and strongest one is that he legitimately seems to not have read my massive post on him and not noticed that I had voted him. I think scum are a lot more likely to keep close watch of the vote count and how many as well as who is voting them whereas town are a lot more carefree when it comes to that and since a few vote counts were posted between my vote and his realization of it I think that leads towards him being likely town. I also find his 'emotional outburst' so to speak to be some form of town tell and I think as scum he'd have wanted to appease me by answering my questions rather than ignoring them knowing I would bring them up again. Though I do see your point about an Expecto-Monday team being possible and would consider Expecto as likely scum if Monday were to flip mafia, until then I actually think he's town.

1. See, this is why I have/had an issue with you. No one else in the room has had issue reading my posts at all. No one. My votes are not that complicated and I try avoiding using words and phrases that are difficult to understand so when you just blandly claim that I'm 'hard to understand' it makes little sense to me.

2. All you needed to say was that it wasn't your natural language but thank you for answering it.

Now that I'm feeling a lot better about Expecto I'm happy to move my vote towards Sophie. Her unvote in her post and no-revote as well as her complete lack of thoughts and analysis on Expecto when there was a lot to focus around him shows a complete lack of scumhunting on her part.

Really? Really? So, in the same post you say you feel better about Expexto, you vote me because I didn't give my thoughts on Expecto, and accuse me of lack of scumhunting. Do you want me to vote him? Why? I thought you said you felt better about him. I don't think he's the scummiest player. He did light up some red lights for me, but his 'breakdown' made ME feel better about him, so I didn't give my reads, for the moment. But hey, that's OK.

[TheMalcolm]

Not much happened during last six hours.

Trying to integrate into discussion... I did fake contribute as innocent, a couple of times. But I'd never admit it during the game, it would be very counterproductive. Being in Monday's position, I'd probably say "I sincerely thought Artrhur uses less smiles usually, looks like I misremembered".

Admitting a lie is really queer move and only explanation for this I could imagine is that it was a panic move. And only killers might panic now, I believe.

So I think my vote is in right place.

[SnowStorm]

(OOC: THE LURKING MODS HAVE FORGOTTEN TO BEG PLAYERS TO AVOID ASOIAF SPOILERS, SINCE THERE MAY BE PLAYERS THAT ARE STILL READING THE BOOKS)

THANK YOU!

I don't love BBMolla's vote on Ethan, but I'm not seeing it as scummy. Those of you who do, let me know what you're seeing, because it reminds me of 'Grams is not town. If you don't think so, show me a duck.'

Both their first posts involved some sort of joke towards WJ's first post, which puts them on the same side. But Ethan's post looked weird, which for some people also means scummy. If BB was scum he wouldn't want to be related to Ethan's scumyness, thus the distancing.

I don't think it could be the case now. I liked BB's reaction and his latest posts seem townish.

[Sophie Baelish]

I don't think it could be the case now. I liked BB's reaction and his latest posts seem townish.

Are you going to change your vote then?

[SnowStorm]

Are you going to change your vote then?

I am.

[Tammy]

The werelion jokes dried up, so yeah. Why? Doesn't she seem serious to you?

So, uh, it's perfectly all right for you to make up something in order to make someone seem guilty for the sake of discussion, but it's not all right for me to ask you a perfectly reasonable question? You seemed suspicious of her earlier, I asked you if your impression of her has changed. I didn't realize your suspicion was based on the werelion jokes, I thought you were seeing something I wasn't, and I wanted to see where your head is at.

What gives me pause is why you're attempting to turn it around on me. Seems strange since I wasn't accusing you of anything with that question...just asking a question. And, if you'd read what I wrote to Regfan you would know that I already said I agree with him on Gertrude being a strong town read, which answers the question you asked.

I've got a class to teach; I'll be back in a few hours and will be here until lynch.