[TWoW Spoilers] Tyrion I

[DragonSpawn]

Jorah will be LC of the Night's Watch. The Old Bear's dying words to Sam were to tell Jorah to take the Black. He'll do it to win back honour for his name and his house.

I agree... this is a more likely fate for Jorah, but it does beg the question: How did Jeor even know his son was still alive... and what makes him think that some chubby steward from the NW would ever come across Jorah and be able to ask him to take the black...? What made him think that Sam would even make it back to the Wall? or was that promise the thing that saved Sam and Gilly? Causing Coldhands and Bloodraven to intervene to honour an honourable dying man's wish...

[Braavosi Sealady]

I believe he knew that Jorah escaped to Essos before Ned Stark arrival at Bear's Island. And he spoke with the person who was with him when he was dying and told him his dying wishes... I doubt he was thinking if Sam would make it or any other details, he just said what was on mind at his time of death...

[lacunajilly]

I believe he knew that Jorah escaped to Essos before Ned Stark arrival at Bear's Island. And he spoke with the person who was with him when he was dying and told him his dying wishes... I doubt he was thinking if Sam would make it or any other details

I agree, even though this is way off topic, but I don't think the Old Bear was just speaking out his final wish. Out of everyone in the nights watch I think the Old Bear realized Sam would be in the best position to ever happen upon Jorah. The Old Bear knew Sam was sharp as nails and good at nothing but that, he would have sent him to the citadel himself if he felt he could be spared at the time. Not to mention Sam has access to the ravens so if Jorah would ever surface in Westeros again Sam would again be in the best position to complete this last wish of his. Both are long shots but its all the old man had in his final moments.

I don't think Jorah will care much about the final wishes of his father though. This is not Ned Stark we are dealing with, he was prepared to dishonor his father and family while they were alive... in death why should he care? If Jorah ends up there it will be an ironic fate that he is sentenced there because he is capable yet unable to play well with others.

[JonTargaryenW/Viserion4WIN]

Not sure if this has already been proposed but I foresee Tyrion will be the Second Sons saving grace when the Iron Fleet hits the shore.

Sitting in a tent, gaming and scheming with BBP, in walks Mormont with news of kraken sails and dragon banners. What does Tyrion do?

He orders the SS to paint some dragon banners of their own hella-quik. Get some white cloth and red paint/slave blood and mock up a three headed blob with a tail and bam. Iron born don't immediately axe rape you but your former Yunkish compadres may give you a funny look before they realize their former allies have reswitched sides.

To me it seems like the only way that Tyrion & Jorah can survive the battle for Meereen is to side with Vic and company. BBP is probably dragon food if Dany has a say, even if he does help take out the Yunkish slavers.

[Manus_Dei]

I think you will get your wish. In the above interview he says he will open with the battle of Slaver's Bay and the battle in the ice (most likely, Stannis) in the beginning. That should mean that Dany is out of Mereen by the middle of the book and traveling towards Westeros. Since the Euron plot-thread is hanging out there she might get sidetracked en route meaning a Westos landing might get delayed until the very end.

She will be delayed by Volantis. Tyrion is bringing the Widow's message....

[lovethyjaime]

I hate that this theory is bantered about, just as much as I hate the theory that somehow Jaime and Cersei are the children of Aerys Targaryen. All of Tywin's children are his. I agree that Tryion being a Targ would be way over the top. It would also ruin Genna Lannisters strong proclamation that Tyrion is Tywin 2.0.

Tywin 0.5***

[Tyrion4President]

Vic is not Dany's type. He may be big and strong, but he is neither dashing nor bright. Even Quentyn had a lot better chances to seduce/slip into Dany's bed. I admit that 'Fire and Blood' Daenerys might not be that opposed to the Ironborn's Old Way, but come on, no one can honestly believe that Dany will go along with Vic's own interpretation of freeing slaves.

If Dany is going to ally/team up with the Ironborn, if she is going to marry Victarion or Euron, she will come as a foreign conqueror to Westeros. Dragons or no, the whole Realm is going to unite against a Targaryen-Greyjoy puppet queen who serves as a tool to enforce Ironborn culture on the whole of Westeros...

The chances for this happening are not that good. The Volantenes will come as well, and the Widow has already promised us that the tigers will rebel. This will give Daenerys yet another fleet, a fleet that is larger than Victarion's, which, combined with the long ships of the Ironborn, will enable her to get all her people to Westeros (i.e. her khalasar, Jhaqo's khalasar, the Unsullied, her freedmen/Meereenese shavepates - those among them who want to accompany her, at least - the Stormcrows, the Second Sons, the Windblown, the Ironborn, and the Volantene tigers).

I doubt that Dragonbinder will be able to separate Dany and Drogon. He is hers now, as I see it. And despite Victarion's attempts to use the horn to bind a dragon to his will, I'm quite sure that this will backfire is a rather unexpected way. If the information from Victarion I about the dusky woman putting Vic's blood on the horn is accurate, I fear for Victarion...

But even if everything works, it's already confirmed that one man can only ride one dragon - there was no exception to this rule even in Valyria. So if the horn works and Rhaegal and Viserion come to Victarion (that he intends to have Dragonbinder blown three times indicates that he hopes to subjugate all three dragons), whatever spell is going to bind them, it will break as soon as Vic chooses his dragon. The other will either leave and/or attack him, I guess.

As to the first meeting between Tyrion and Barristan:

I strongly suspect this will be an utter surprise for Tyrion. Tyrion and Selmy should be acquainted from court, but it's remarkable/suspicious that Tyrion does not remember a conversation with Selmy when he remembers considering revealing himself to him and Dany in ADwD. I strongly suspect Selmy will be the man who reveals a certain thing about Tyrion's heritage. If he is indeed Aerys's bastard, this will be his entrance into the court. It will be the one thing that is going to prevent Selmy from executing Tyrion on sight. There is no way that Selmy would accept a condemned kin- and kingslayer among Dany's council. But considering the fact that Dany has (supposedly) no living relatives left, and killing Dany's half-brother would be considered kinslaying as well, Selmy will stay his hand. Tyrion needs a chance to prove his worth. And being not Tywin's biological son and Dany's half-brother will give a new purpose. Both Dany and Tyrion need to form a lasting alliance, some kind of connection that will motivate them to return to Westeros. Back in ADwD Tyrion finally ended up not wanting to kill himself, but he still lacked a strong motivation to return to Westeros.

Being Dany's half-brother could open more than just a door to him. He will be one of the dragonriders, that much we all expect to happen, but considering the Targaryen incest thing this could even make it possible for Tyrion to become Dany's consort. I'm not sure that she will end up loving him (nor am I sure that Tyrion will be all that attracted to Daenerys), but they might, well, be more fond of each other than Hizdahr and Dany were... ;-)

I dont think i missed anything but where does this theory of tyrion being half targ come into play? Is there is evidence from the past to even suggest this?

[Tyrion4President]

It makes a lot of sense. The three main characters all had mothers who died giving birth to them. All three are thought little of because they were born girl, dwarf, and bastard, yet come to excel above those lacking those properties. It makes sense that all three also have a Targaryen father, and it's nicely symmetric that Jon thinks he is a bastard but isn't while Tyrion thinks he is not a bastard but is. There's also a nice interlocking symmetry with Tyrion and Jaime each killing each other's father.

This theory seems like a long shot. There is no evidence to really prove any of it. We know that Jaime and Cercei are Lannisters and we know that Cercei saw Tyrion after he was born. We know that Jaime and Cercei have memories of their mother so how could it possibly be that Tyrion is not a Lannister. What would explain the death of their mother and what would explain Tywins hate for Tyrion if he was a Targ all along? For me im sticking with R + L = J because there happens to be alot of evidence and foreshadowing.

[aryagonnakill]

This theory seems like a long shot. There is no evidence to really prove any of it. We know that Jaime and Cercei are Lannisters and we know that Cercei saw Tyrion after he was born. We know that Jaime and Cercei have memories of their mother so how could it possibly be that Tyrion is not a Lannister. What would explain the death of their mother and what would explain Tywins hate for Tyrion if he was a Targ all along? For me im sticking with R + L = J because there happens to be alot of evidence and foreshadowing.

Tyrions mother doesn't determine his name, his father do. The Tyrion is a Targ theory stems from his mother supposedly having been raped by Aerys.

[Tyrion4President]

But even if R+L=J IS correct - Jon is still a bastard, surely? He's not a legitimate Targ - he's Rhaegar's by-blow. OK, he's a 'royal' bastard - but still a bastard. The whole Baratheon bastardy story has been so crucial in starting the war of the kings, that I - personally - think it would be pretty lame if we ended up with another bastard ruling Westeros in some way. Or would there be a way to legitimise Jon? And if so, how?

Jon has almost been legitimized twice so far, 3rd times a charm?

[Tyrion4President]

Archmaester Marwyn is an archmaester (the Archmaester for Magic) who Sam Tarly meets at the Citadel. He left the Citadel with the expressed intention of crossing the sea to meet Daenerys, and provide her council. We have not heard from him since, but we have not been given any hints that his intention to meet Queen Daenerys have changed.

I think Ser Barristan will only consider joining Aegon if he thinks that Daenerys is dead. As long as he believes her to be alive, he will stay loyal.

He might advise Dany to join forces with her nephew but only if he believes that Aegon is real, and not touched by Targaryen madness. It will be interesting to see what Barristan makes of Aegon. And what Varys will do about Barristan. If Aegon is fake, Varys might fear that Barristan could prove it, as Barristan is one of the last people alive who were close to baby Aegon during the last days of the siege.

Rhaegar went for Lyanna who was 9 years younger then her, Viserys was intending to marry Dany who was like, seven years younger then her, Ramsey married Lady Hornwood who was way older then him, Tywin offered Cersei's hand in marriage to Rhaegar who was 6 years older then her when she was like, 12, Willas is a lot older then Sansa, Walder Freys wives go without saying, Lysa Tully was married of to Jon Arryn when she was like 14 when Jon Arryn was old enough to be her grandfather, Arya was suppose to be an 11 year old girl when Ramsey married her.

18 year old Aegon marrying 23 year old Arianne is nothing, come on now.

dont forget tyrion was married to sansa, dont know the age difference but its clearly more then 10 years

[The King of the Night]

i hope danny doesnt fall for victarion but instead pays the iron price for his fleet.

i think it is more likely that jaime and cersei are targs bc tyrion is described as tywin 2.0 (0.5) and the brief info about Aerys taking the bedding "too far" durring tywins wedding would make sence for jaime and cersei, there is no further evidence of any later rape. This still fits nicely with the symetry of jaime and tyrion both having killed their own fathers.

I dont think Aegon will be one of the three heads. I just wanted to throw it out there but what are the odds of a non-targaryen dragon rider... if there is no chance then Aegon is real or another targaryen has to be revealed.

Aegon could be a fake targaryen and a real Blackfire but i still dont think he will be one of the three.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

i hope danny doesnt fall for victarion but instead pays the iron price for his fleet

Khal Drogo, Daarhio, there is a pattern. As she let Quentyn know, she likes bad boys. Vic is just her type and it makes sense.

[aryagonnakill]

i hope danny doesnt fall for victarion but instead pays the iron price for his fleet.

i think it is more likely that jaime and cersei are targs bc tyrion is described as tywin 2.0 (0.5) and the brief info about Aerys taking the bedding "too far" durring tywins wedding would make sence for jaime and cersei, there is no further evidence of any later rape. This still fits nicely with the symetry of jaime and tyrion both having killed their own fathers.

I dont think Aegon will be one of the three heads. I just wanted to throw it out there but what are the odds of a non-targaryen dragon rider... if there is no chance then Aegon is real or another targaryen has to be revealed.

Aegon could be a fake targaryen and a real Blackfire but i still dont think he will be one of the three.

Every lannister we met except for Tyrion is introduced as having golden blonde hair, Tyrion as hair so blonde is it almost white, several Targs have combo colored eyes like Tyrion, and Tyrion dreams of Dragons. IDK what will happen but I would say that the theories are not baseless.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

Every lannister we met except for Tyrion is introduced as having golden blonde hair, Tyrion as hair so blonde is it almost white, several Targs have combo colored eyes like Tyrion, and Tyrion dreams of Dragons. IDK what will happen but I would say that the theories are not baseless.

There is an entire thread devoted to this topic in the other section. I, like many, many others believe that Tywin's children are his and no one else's (not Aerys'). I don't like to call theories baseless either, but this is pretty far fetched.

1. The timeline simply does not work. You have to put the king of the realm and the wife of the most powerful lord in the seven kingdoms together nine months before Tyrion's birth. In other words, Aerys had to have raped Joanna without anyone knowing about it (guards, servants, spies, etc.).

2. Abortion is readily available in the seven kingdoms. Joanna would have drank moon tea to kill any potential child from her rapist. The only reason she would not is b/c she knew she was already pregnant with Tywin's child.

3. From what we know of Lannisters, they are proud, arrogant, strong-willed, and vengeful. There is no way she would have kept quiet or hid signs of a rape from Aerys. This is the woman that ruled Tywin Lannister. There is no way she would have birthed a child for anyone but her husband, or asked Tywin to spare a child born of Aerys. If Tywin had any inkling that Tyrion was not his, he would have did him in long ago. We would have seen Tywin's rebellion instead of Robert's.

4. Tyrion's spots of blonde-white hair are likely due to his deformity much like bloodraven. Bloodraven had bone white hair, instead of silver gold or platinum hair. Tyrion also grows a beard that has blonde and black hair (maybe his part-Baratheon, now thats irony). Mismatched eyes of green and black does not seem very Targaryen. Just b/c we have not seen any other Lannisters with Tyrion's odd features means nothing. No other Lannisters have his deformity.

5. Every child in Westeros has likely dreamt of dragons. Huge, powerful creatures that fly. I'm sure any child like Tyrion would dream of a creature that let him fly above all others.

6. Aerys was mad, not stupid. He was not truly mad until after Duskendale (well after Tyrion's birth). He feared Tywin was overreaching, so he took his son (Jaime), not his wife. I know people are pointing to the liberties at the wedding, but that is likely no more than groping if anything. If you are suggesting Aerys some how sleeping with Joanna on her wedding knight, thats pretty far fetched. People point to Aerys' treatment of his wife to call him a rapist. Historically, during these periods there was no rape of man and wife. To all, Aerys was likely claiming his marital rights (albeit violently). There is no other evidence of Aerys being a serial rapist.

7. I will not even address Jaime and Cersei.

As I said, there is a whole other thread devoted to this so I will not touch it again. Sorry for slightly going off topic.

[Tini]

Khal Drogo, Daarhio, there is a pattern. As she let Quentyn know, she likes bad boys. Vic is just her type and it makes sense.

No, it doesn't. She likes bad boys. Charming, good-looking bad boys. Victarion and flattery? Don't make me laugh. And Dany will most likely find his new improved hand off-putting. Most likely Dany won't be interested in him at all. Drogo had been dead for some time when she got involved with Daario. Daario isn't dead yet, or at least not dead for very long.

There is no clear-cut pattern yet.

[Tini]

dont forget tyrion was married to sansa, dont know the age difference but its clearly more then 10 years

Don't forget that grandson of Lord Walder Frey who got married to a widow 20 years his senior when he was but a boy himself. These are dynastic marriages. As long as the price is right, and the woman can still bear children, age doesn't mean anything.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

No, it doesn't. She likes bad boys. Charming, good-looking bad boys. Victarion and flattery? Don't make me laugh. And Dany will most likely find his new improved hand off-putting. Most likely Dany won't be interested in him at all. Drogo had been dead for some time when she got involved with Daario. Daario isn't dead yet, or at least not dead for very long.

There is no clear-cut pattern yet.

You found Drogo charming and good-looking? Perhaps you found the Hound charming and good-looking, and that he would have made a suitable match.

[Tyrions_Big_Toe]

I reckon now that Dany has met the kalasar she'll destroy jhaqo and a good few dothraki, take the kalasar back to mereen annihilate the enemy and once more regain her ruthlessness. I also reckon there's not going to be much left of mereen after the battle, finally making her realise that now is the time to go to westeros. Shell finally have a full blown army made up from a ton of different peoples and factions which ties in well with her being the 'mother' and slowly but surely make her way back.

[KJR the PR of TaFW]

i cant wait till vic meets barristan and tyrion. lots of exelent writing up ahead!