Jon Snow Parentage

[Cory]

I also believe in r+l=j the name escapes me, but the woman Eddard supposedly had the bastard with..

Who's she in all this

[Roddy Darwin]

Ashara Dayne.

People just assumed it was her because Ned met with her at around the time it would have happened, and she was very beautiful.

When Robert asks him what the name of Jon's mother was, he answers "Wylla" though. If it really was Ashara, I do not see why he would not tell Robert.

[Mana Mir]

i think jon is son of Rheagar and lyanna, as she asked ned to promise her something.. i think the promise was that he never tell anyone about the truth that she also loved rheagar and had his son, also it was said in the POV chapter of Eddard where he robert tells the story about how jaime was sitting on the throne when he killed aerys and ned entered the throne room that the war was almost gone for a year whereas a baby to be born requires only 9 months..

Regarding the black hair and Targaryen eyes, it has been hinted that children carry their mothers traits as it did with the lannister incest kids, although this can be proved wrong as in this case both jaime and cersie are of the same seed..

[LitaJ]

There's Targareyans that don't have silver hair/violet eyes combination. Rhaegar's own daughter with Elia (Rhaeneys) had his mother's dornish features, brown hair and eyes. So Rhaegar's son with Lyanna could have his mother's features. And Jon has Stark features as Lyanna had, dark brown hair and grey eyes... There's references in the books that Jon and Arya look like Starks as Ned, and that Arya looks like Lyanna...

And Lyanna was hide from the world after leaving with Rhaegar, which is during the whole rebellion war, one year. If she died at childbirth, as is implied in the books, the child has to be Rhaegar's.

While I do believe that R+L = J, there is also the possibility that one of the Kings Guard at the Tower could be his daddy and Lyanna his mother

[MidnightAurora]

I believe the KG who were at the TOJ were Rhaegar's oldest and loyal friends so I would doubt they would be the daddy.

not sure if this is spoiler or not but the TOJ seemed to be at an old castle in ruins tha used to be the Targs. Rhagear would visited here often and was happiest here. I believe that is how his father found him more easily or knew where his son was.

[The guy from the Vale]

The Tower of Joy is an old Dornish watchtower. You're thinking of Summerhall.

[Anderson Homeu]

Ned's too honorable to have premarital sex.. but what of Lyanna then?

[silentwanderer]

Has anyone else come to the realization that Eddard Stark isn't the father of Jon Snow at all?

Every single person I know. It used to be the most popular theory until book 5 came along

and Jon was stabbed to death about the same time the son of Rhaegar resurfaced to claim the throne.

.

[MidnightAurora]

I haven't read the interview yet by GRRM since have not read all the books, but in it he states Jon's parents are very important. Of course he was vague all the same..

I just cannot see the timeline on how Ned would be Jon's father if he fathered Robb and both are w/in the same age. To me he would have had to impregnate someone before marrying Cat and knew about the child or soon after marrying and impregnating Cat.

[That Demon Monkey]

I also believe in r+l=j the name escapes me, but the woman Eddard supposedly had the bastard with..

Who's she in all this

LOL, sorry to answer a year old question, but I believe she was some whore Ned found who could take care of and feed the baby for him. He then probably used her as a story to cover himself against Robert.

A very strong clue I picked up in the book is that they describe Lyanna as dying in a bed of blood. Later on Mirr Maz Durr (however you spell that) tells Dany that she has experience in the ways of the bed of blood, refering to her skills in helping to assist her with childbirth.

Thus Bed of blood = childbirth

[That Demon Monkey]

Ned's too honorable to have premarital sex.. but what of Lyanna then?

I'm sure premarital sex was not an issue for them. He was already married when he left for Robert's war, so he would be too honorouble for adultery you mean.

Lyanna was (1) not married, and (2) she is described as wild at heart, so possibly much less quided by honour than her brother in any event.

[Josh546]

Has anyone else come to the realization that Eddard Stark isn't the father of Jon Snow at all? That infact Jon Snow is really Jon Stark as he is the son of Lyanna Stark? Lyanna Stark made her brother promise her something, it's never known what, she just simple said "Promise me, Ned."

Eddard Stark traveled to the "Tower of Joy" to retrieve his sister from Rhaegar's clutches but when he got to her she was dying in a bed of blood. It's not known if she was stabbed or not. I suggest this opinion because most women would have given birth in bed, and it would be assumed that Lyanna Stark died in similar fashion to Tyrion Lannister's mother who died giving birth to him.

Ned returns home from the "Tower of Joy" with a baby boy. Instead of telling anyone the truth he simple states that he's the bastard son of his. Why would he do this? Robert Baratheon had Rhaegar's family killed, including his kids. If he found out that Lyanna had a son by Rhaegar, especially being betrothed to Robert, he would have killed the baby off. Hence why Ned simply went with the story that Jon is his bastard son.

Actually his name would be Jon Targaryian, as was evident by the kings guard being with lyana her and ray gar were married as the targs did practice poligimy. You find this out later

[silentwanderer]

I just cannot see the timeline on how Ned would be Jon's father if he fathered Robb and both are w/in the same age. To me he would have had to impregnate someone before marrying Cat and knew about the child or soon after marrying and impregnating Cat.

According to the books, Ned and Catelyn conceived Robb in their first try (impressive for a virgin like Ned and a woman still in love with his brother).

So Ned came back with his bastard son not knowing Catelyn gave birth to his heir while he was trying to survive the war.

Judging by Sansa'a age, it took roughly 5 years for Cat to forgive Ned for this.

[Ürglõvi]

Judging by Sansa'a age, it took roughly 5 years for Cat to forgive Ned for this.

Huh? Sansa is ~3 years younger than Robb, Ned wasn't home for several months after Robb's birth and you have to substract 9 months Cat was pregnant with Sansa.

Jon is definitely younger than Robb: Ned laments to Robert about 'shaming' Cat who was carrying his heir and if R + L = J, then we can assume Lyanna had just given birth when Ned found her.

[She is the rightful heir]

I love this theory this is what keeps me hooked on the books, and i think ned wouldn't betray catelyn and go with another woman he has to much honor he reminds me of stannis all work and no play.

[silentwanderer]

I love this theory this is what keeps me hooked on the books, and i think ned wouldn't betray catelyn and go with another woman he has to much honor he reminds me of stannis all work and no play.

I lean towards what we were told:

Jon Arryn was going to die unless he was rescued, Wylla helped Ned cross in her boat, they both thought they were going to die during this mission and 9 months later Ned named his bastard son after Jon Arryn.

Ned wasn't in love with Catelyn when they got married, she's the reason he couldn't pursue Ashara Dayne despite he was clearly interested, and Wylla was the first woman who had nothing to do with it.

He didn't mean to disrespect Brandon's fiancee, Ned just didn't see Cat as "his" and wouldn't do so for years to come so it makes perfect sense under the circumstances.

[the_one_who_was_promised]

There is a lengthy and composite debate on this issue via the following link:

http://asoiaf.wester...4/page__st__440

As you can see, the thread is on its fifty-fourth issue, and I think vol. 55 will be opened soon, so keep your eyes peeled.

But, yes this is a generally accepted theory - the evidence seems to stack up (even the timeline as divulged by GRRM also seems to support this theory).

Each time Ned is cornered on this issue, he gets stressed and wants to avoid the question - he tells Robert one thing while allowing Cersei and Cat to believe something else, hence he attempts to divert attention on who Jon's mother actually is.

Another point we might consider is that we are told in GoT that Jon and Arya look alike, while Arya resembles Lyanna. Hence, Jon is indirectly being compared to Lyanna.

I would say the same about Jon's personality. Much is made of Ned's apparently honourable reputation, and other characters point to Jon's courage and integrity, hence we could be forgiven for thinking that Jon is Ned's boy through and through, but I'm inclined to think that Jon's honour is inherited from his real father, Rhaegar Targeryan - whom we are told through the likes of Ser Barristan and Dany, was a courageous and well-respected fellow.

Finally, in KL, prior to execution, Ned wants to write to Jon (he says "if only he could see the boy one last time"). Later during a conversation with Varys, the latter warns him that all his correspondences will be intercepted. Hence, why does he not choose to tell Jon who his mother is before his final date with his maker? IMO it is because his mother is Lyanna - a fact that can never be known to the Lannisters at this point in time because it would put Jon and the whole of the Stark clan in further jeopardy.

[MidnightAurora]

There is a lengthy and composite debate on this issue via the following link:

http://asoiaf.wester...4/page__st__440

As you can see, the thread is on its fifty-fourth issue, and I think vol. 55 will be opened soon, so keep your eyes peeled.

But, yes this is a generally accepted theory - the evidence seems to stack up (even the timeline as divulged by GRRM also seems to support this theory).

Each time Ned is cornered on this issue, he gets stressed and wants to avoid the question - he tells Robert one thing while allowing Cersei and Cat to believe something else, hence he attempts to divert attention on who Jon's mother actually is.

Another point we might consider is that we are told in GoT that Jon and Arya look alike, while Arya resembles Lyanna. Hence, Jon is indirectly being compared to Lyanna.

I would say the same about Jon's personality. Much is made of Ned's apparently honourable reputation, and other characters point to Jon's courage and integrity, hence we could be forgiven for thinking that Jon is Ned's boy through and through, but I'm inclined to think that Jon's honour is inherited from his real father, Rhaegar Targeryan - whom we are told through the likes of Ser Barristan and Dany, was a courageous and well-respected fellow.

Finally, in KL, prior to execution, Ned wants to write to Jon (he says "if only he could see the boy one last time"). Later during a conversation with Varys, the latter warns him that all his correspondences will be intercepted. Hence, why does he not choose to tell Jon who his mother is before his final date with his maker? IMO it is because his mother is Lyanna - a fact that can never be known to the Lannisters at this point in time because it would put Jon and the whole of the Stark clan in further jeopardy.

Good Point. Most I already discovered myself.

I am currently trying to piece together timelines of things based on people's memories and recollections of events especially the Tourney at Harrenhal which is repeated through different characters. It is especially noted when Jojen is telling Bran the story about HR and Harrenhal and surprised Eddard never told the story and asked repeated if he is sure he never heard it. So that is suspicious if Ned never told him that story of Harrenhal and probably because to keep people safe. Ned in his cell stated that the promise he made Lyanna cost him dearly. I know Brandon got Ashara to dance with Ned at the Harrenhal tourney feast because Ned was too shy. Per timeline in future books since Ashara and Ned were not pledged to anyone at this time they could have gotten together made Jon and when Ned returned the Dawn to the Daynes Ashara could have presented him Jon. That would not make sense of why Ned would take Jon to Winterfell because he stayed in Dorne for awhile and it seems like Ned named Jon and not the mother and probably to further protect Lyanna's son. Plus, Jon would be the nephew to the son of the Morning and by his reputation I am sure the Daynes would not refuse "Jon" if he surely were Ashara and Ned's son.

With each book I read I am more and more convinced Jon is Lyanna's son.

[Magpy]

I saw a brief interveiw with GRRM about how the producers managed to convince him to let the books be filmed. One question he asked them was who is Jon Snow's mother? He liked their answer, shocking though it was, so much he agreed to the project.

Seems there are 2 main theories:

Jon is actually the son of Lyanna by Rhaegar. He may or may not be legitimate, of course if he is then Jon is the rightful King not Deanerys.

Jon is Eddard's son by incest with Lyanna. This I think is more shocking, but ultimately doesnt take the plot anywhere.

Tim

[Lady Asha]

You know, honestly, I think all the signs point to him being Rhaegar's son by Lyanna. The big question is whether they were married or not, making him legitimate or illegitimate. I lean towards legitimate because there were 3 KG knights (the best three, from what I gather) staying to guard the Tower of Joy.

They are sworn to protect the rightful king...so it makes no sense that they would be there, protecting a mere hostage, when the war had already been lost. Aerys was dead. Rhaegar and his kin were dead. Ser Darry had fled with Viserys and Dany.

If Jon Snow was not Rhaegar's child, the KG would have no moral obligation to stay and guard that tower, even knowing that Rhaegar was dead.

They were doing it because Jon Targaeryn was (and is technically) the rightful king.

HOWEVER, this is all continent upon Lyanna having been his true wedded wife. Otherwise, Viserys was the heir and now Dany.

Gotta say, I still think Dany has a better claim than Jon Snow. She is a true Targaeryn, daughter of the King. Not the halfling baby son of the Crown Prince and his second wife.