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teemo

[Book Spoilers] Who is Talisa?

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She says a name, says she's from Volantis, and doesn't she say she's just a "spicer"? I don't know if I would tell the king of my enemies exactly who I was should I happen upon him in a battlefield, especially if I was really a lady. The Westerling married Spicer - so there is some truth there. I don't know why HBO is putting the scenes in, except it does help set up what really happens when she and Robb get together in the Crag. It might be they want to show that the love is not a set up - or could be a set up for the scheming Spicers and they sent her to seek him out. We will have to see how this plays out in the show. I just think HBO is making things much more clear by showing more detail in the story, we are limited in the books by POV so there is a lot left to the imagination and you have to be very observant to catch all the detail. The TV show has to be more obvious, there's just not time to go into the detail that the books do.

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Do people really think the show was just not going to show Rob's relationship with whoever the girl is, that she and Robb would dissapear for awhile and then would just pop up and then we would have the RW. Come on. And once you realize there was no way this storyline could be bypassed then you realize that however they did it we were going to have some sappy intro to his love interest, b/c thats how they happen-sappy. Perhaps they should have started right off with after Robb gets injured and her healing him, but it was going to happen one way or another and irregardless of her background. Also making her from Volantis gives the creator an outlet for some needed exposition-and given her background she could probably tell us about anywhere and it would be semi-believable. If I have a critique of the purists its that I don't feel they appreciate how necessary it is to put a lot of exposition in the show, and I would argue esp in regards to the Stannis storyline they haven't done it nearly enough. Its why we have to get a clunky Quarthe scene.

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I get the feeling you are talking about yourself, not Robb. People's tastes differ, and Robb is being characterised as liking this girl who talks back.

Think of it from his point of view. He's one of the richest, most powerful young men in the land. He's not some high-school student who is stunned that a girl would actually want to talk to him, and he's used to all the girls he knows (who are all his father's servants and vassals and their family) being super-submissive and attentive. When the heir to Winterfell says jump, you jump. A girl who has no respect for him and his position is the novelty.

And I get the feeling you are trying to be judgemental about myself.....which is not so nice. We are here discussing Game of Thrones and not me. If you would lilke to discuss about me, then you will need to get to know me first for you to have any credits at judging who i am or what i like.

Robb is 18....or should be....in the books he is even younger. People at that age do not think that much. And I am not saying that I did not think that much at that age. I am not talking about myself here. I am talking about teenagers in general. And if you want to fight with me because I think teenagers are not really hard thinkers.....then I will refuse to discuss that with you.

But, lets get on topic again:

I answered you when you said that sweet and shy girls that dont show up a lot are not interesting on tv (not your exact words but close). Do you care to discuss my examples of Arwen in LOTR and Muron in Braveheart? The 2nd one is really a perfect example and i dare you to say that she did not get the point that she was needed for on that movie. She did! And she was so important to the plot that we had her showing up even after being dead....even if she did not speak that much after dead. She was mostly there to look pretty and to give our hero some motivation. Like it or not, it works and it sells. And again, this may or may not be my own personal preference, I am not adressing that here.

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Nothing wrong with liking sweet, shy girls, but saying that all teenage boys like sweet, shy girls is poor criticism of a TV series.

Which is why that was something aditional to my topic and not my critic at all. I was just adding my understanding of Robb and Jeyne´s relationship as the book portrays it. Like it or not, that was the story in the book.

But I never said "all" teenage boys like that kind of girl....if you care to read what I did say once again, you will not find this "all" there.

And...my point with you is: justifying a change by saying the original story would not sell is also a poor point given that Talisa is Jeyne´s complete oposite and there are tons of well known female characters in movies and series who will fall in bettween Talisa and Jeyne. Therefore, it was possible to go way closer to Jeyne if they wanted to. Your point of "it would not be interesting" seems to me a feeble point. Again, I wonder if you got the feeling of "meeehhh" with the lady on Braveheart. Did you not enjoy her? Because Jeyne could be like that. Simple! It would be all on chemistry, good acting and nice music to convey that she was getting to Robb. And that would be far easier on screen then it was on the book.

And this is my biggest issue with this Talisa. Because I had hopes that seing Jeyne and Robb fall in love would help cement the book story. The screen would be perfect to flesh it a bit more and make it really romantic. Now that chance seems to be lost and Robb will look even more foolish this time around....because when all is said and done, I hope they can really pull the love out of this relationship considering the cost that it will have for everyone involved.

But i will enjoy the show for what it is :) No need to worry about that.

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She says a name, says she's from Volantis, and doesn't she say she's just a "spicer"? I don't know if I would tell the king of my enemies exactly who I was should I happen upon him in a battlefield, especially if I was really a lady.

Really? I would. It would save me from rape at the hands of enemy soldiers. Being publicly acknowledged as a lady would mean that Talisa/Jeyne would be taken captive and held for ransom, true, but she would be protected from sexual violence. Jaime uses Brienne's status (and the price on her virginity) to save her from exactly that fate in ASOS.

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Really? I would. It would save me from rape at the hands of enemy soldiers. Being publicly acknowledged as a lady would mean that Talisa/Jeyne would be taken captive and held for ransom, true, but she would be protected from sexual violence. Jaime uses Brienne's status (and the price on her virginity) to save her from exactly that fate in ASOS.

Easy now Council Member - that's just my opinion on why they had her "give a different name and background". So why didn't HBO have her say, "King Robb - I'm Jeyne Westerling, highborn lady, take me captive". I didn't see any of his soldiers trying to rape her, but I only watched the episode once. Brienne is a totaly different situation IMHO, the bloody mummers had her, not Robb Stark.

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Easy now Council Member - that's just my opinion on why they had her "give a different name and background". So why didn't HBO have her say, "King Robb - I'm Jeyne Westerling, highborn lady, take me captive". I didn't see any of his soldiers trying to rape her, but I only watched the episode once. Brienne is a totaly different situation IMHO, the bloody mummers had her, not Robb Stark.

:) I wasn't trying to attack you. I actually thought that, if it turns out that Talisa is Jeyne W. in disguise (increasingly seems unlikely) then that would be the explanation that the TV show might use when they revealed her real name. Doesn't mean it isn't a weak explanation though.

I don't think Talisa is in a very different situation from other women in a war zone. Robb Stark's honor has nothing to do with that of his soldiers. During Blackwater, Cersei warns Sansa that the women of the Red Keep will be in danger of rape if the castle falls to Stannis' men, and this is despite Cersei acknowledging that Stannis himself is not that kind of man.

Even Randyll Tarly, the champion of misogynists, acknowledges that Brienne would have been in danger if he hadn't put an end to the knights' competition for her, and this is Renly's war camp that we're talking about. Very few people are as squeaky clean as Renly, and most of his men are obsessed with honor and glory - like Robb Stark's men. And Renly didn't even have monsters like the Freys and Boltons riding with him.

The point is that in this society, women have no protection during war unless it's by birth, wits or their own skill at arms. (And I would argue that even intelligence isn't enough if you don't have a powerful family or a powerful sword arm). We've seen time and again that women on a battlefield/around a traveling army are treated like camp followers or spoils of war. Even if some knight is chivalrous enough to just employ a captured woman as his laundress, there's no guarantee that the other men in his retinue will have the same gallant instincts. It's messed up, but it is what it is.

So if I was a female aristocrat, especially a young and pretty one, who wanted to be a healer/nurse, I would wear my family name openly. If my army was defeated, I would either try to flee or, if caught, reveal my name in order to protect myself. It seems like the common sense thing to do in this world.

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You are practically writing a fanfic about a character we know barely anything about, ATFW. How do we know she doesn't have protectors? How do we know she is a noblewoman? Maybe she's with the church of the Seven as a healer. Maybe her father is employed as a surgeon to the army and her five strong brothers are just out of sight of the camera. I guess we'll have to keep watching to find out. Why criticise the writers for things that may not turn out to be true?

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You are practically writing a fanfic about a character we know barely anything about, ATFW. How do we know she doesn't have protectors? How do we know she is a noblewoman? Maybe she's with the church of the Seven as a healer. Maybe her father is employed as a surgeon to the army and her five strong brothers are just out of sight of the camera. I guess we'll have to keep watching to find out. Why criticise the writers for things that may not turn out to be true?

I've been criticizing based on a popular assumption, while acknowledging that it may not be true, and responding to posts that were based on a similar assumption. And my main argument - that whether Talisa is commoner or noble, her first appearance doesn't fit with the world of ASOIAF - still seems fair to me. But I'm willing to wait and see what happens.

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Why does Ran in the interview published a couple of days ago say that he knows that Talisa is her actual name? I think they changed her name as to not confuse her with Jeyne Poole. They can't change J. Poole's name, because of the whole "Jeyne Jeyne it rhymes with pain" thingy.But why make her from Volantis?

They may have changed her name but I bet all her other details remain the same. I'm thinking it's not a good idea to run around a Northern camp telling everyone you belong to a Lannister Bannerman family. She's there with someone (someone's driving the wagon she rides off on) so I guess her fear of rape is not that great (at least not as great as being held captive for ransom). So if she remains "Talisa" I'm guessing everything else stays "Jenny Westerling" about her

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I hadn't read the entire thread, so sorry if this has already been tackled, but has anyone noticed how all of Talisa's scenes are merged with Roose Bolton's and how Roose eyes Talisa in a couple scenes? In any case, that was great incorporation, I think, and a good nod to readers as well. :)

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When I heard about Talisa, I was afraid they were replacing Jeyne entirely. Glad to hear they're being more clever about it.

(I haven't watched Season 2 yet)

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