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turdle

[Book Spoilers]Tywinn not Roose

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I don't know about all the Roose / Ramsay speculations but I'm actually ok with the change of having Arya become Tywin's cup bearer instead of Bolton. Since the events are already a bit out of sequence and we know they need to cut scenes / characters where they can - this seems a logical change to make without changing the overall plot line too much. We know Arya has to be a servant of the castle in order for Jaqen to play out his three names for her, but it doesn't matter so much if she's not "Nan" and "Weasel" and all that. Weasel Soup was a great scene, but they may not do it that way in the end of her time at Harrenhal. I think so long as the general idea remains the same for the Jaqen / Arya interactions I'm fine with other changes to it. Being Tywin's cup bearer is a very minor detail change.

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Couldn't she still end up as Roose's cup bearer when he takes over Harrenhal?

she could, but that would be kind of redundant at this point, and the way they seem to be fast-tracking her story by combining scenes makes it seem unlikely to me that they would effectively double up on one element of her story. when tywin said that, i immediatly thought, "oh they're going to have her escape while tywin is there, that way she kills a lanister, and not a northman."

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I don't know about all the Roose / Ramsay speculations but I'm actually ok with the change of having Arya become Tywin's cup bearer instead of Bolton. Since the events are already a bit out of sequence and we know they need to cut scenes / characters where they can - this seems a logical change to make without changing the overall plot line too much. We know Arya has to be a servant of the castle in order for Jaqen to play out his three names for her, but it doesn't matter so much if she's not "Nan" and "Weasel" and all that. Weasel Soup was a great scene, but they may not do it that way in the end of her time at Harrenhal. I think so long as the general idea remains the same for the Jaqen / Arya interactions I'm fine with other changes to it. Being Tywin's cup bearer is a very minor detail change.

for the most part i agree with that, but i will miss the irony that arya helps free bolton only to have bolton do what he does to her family (if infact they skip that part).

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Episode 6's plot summary includes "Arya gets a surprise visit." Since according to the summaries this is after she meets up with Jaqen, I was having a hard time thinking who it would be besides Roose.

On the HBO website the quote under Bolton's portrait is Robb saying "He's good at skinning men alive, but diplomacy..." I can't think of any diplomatic mission he was sent on in the books, so I think either his time at Harrenhall or his trip up North will be explained that way. It also leads me to believe that Roose's cooperation with Tywin might be made more explicit to the viewers, though that would ruin the "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" payoff.

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i will be seriously pissed if they cut out weasel soup. they are already going to be changing the first death, since there's no weese--the whole northman bust out is like the highlight of her season 2 storyline. that and the escape, of course--but i would be super bummed if they cut that scene. though reading what people have said, i could see it--in terms of streamlining--but the whole 3rd death part and how that makes jaqen respect her and even fear her, seems to be why he gives her the coin--like he thinks she's got potential.

and i agree re: cutting down on whores to add in ramsay and give her storyline some time to breathe. plus, her as tywin's cupbearer, although it should make for interesting tv, makes me wonder how they will avoid her picking tywin--i get the sense that he will be kind to her--and maybe it will play out the same way as in teh books--that she hears some stuff right as tywin is leaving. tywin has to leave anyway b/c of the blackwater, so hopefully it will be early enough that someone else can come in and take over--even if roose isn't there--at least she can free the northmen--

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for the most part i agree with that, but i will miss the irony that arya helps free bolton only to have bolton do what he does to her family (if infact they skip that part).

She never freed Roose. She freed two other Northern commanders (Glover and Tallheart, IIRC). Roose came later, to hold Harrenhal once the Northmen had already taken the castle.

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If Roose doesn't go to Harrenhal, does Tywin get given Jaime, disfigured by Hoat? How is that going to work? (Hoat would die very very very quickly). Someone ostensibly on the "Starks' side" needs to take Harrenhal for that to occur. Is Hoat going to appear? Or are the horrible suggestions that Jaime loses his hand pre-release correct?

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She never freed Roose. She freed two other Northern commanders (Glover and Tallheart, IIRC). Roose came later, to hold Harrenhal once the Northmen had already taken the castle.

you may be right, i may have confused the details.

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Tywin won't stay in Harrenhal for too long assuming they follow the books, so there could be some room for Roose to take over. I don't think they will cut Ramsay, but its still too early too tell. I'm waiting holding out for some mention of the Bastard of the Bolton. If he is brought up throughout the course of season 2, it is still very possible for him to come in on season 3. if there is no mention...a pity. He's a fantastic villain. Merging him with Roose does make a lot of sense. Roose already expressed to Robb his fondness for flaying. :stillsick:

Either way, I am looking forward to some Tywin and Arya interaction. I'm already fascinated by these two.

Why would they make Arya Tywin's cupbearer unless they wanted to cut out Roose's role at Harrenhal? I dread this show taking out Ramsay. Although his role is small in the 2nd book, and he does not appear in the 3rd or 4th; he pretty much is the great villian of the north in the 5th. The Roose/Ramsay dynamic was also one of my favorite parts of that book.

Roose taking one of Ramsay's lines only sours my hopes. It seemed rather stupid and reckless of Roose to suggest doing something that was supposedly outlawed a thousand years ago. Is Robb supposed to believe the Dreadfort doesn't do that if Roose has so casually suggested it to his face.

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Roose taking one of Ramsay's lines only sours my hopes. It seemed rather stupid and reckless of Roose to suggest doing something that was supposedly outlawed a thousand years ago. Is Robb supposed to believe the Dreadfort doesn't do that if Roose has so casually suggested it to his face.

i agree, i thought it was another example of HBO trying to rush info about a character into the story when it A- doesn't make sense for that character to be saying what they are saying in the circumstance they are saying it in, and B- removes the gray area that should exist about that character (at least for the moment). much like little fingers sexposition in season 1, although less significant given we're still a ways a way from bolton showing his true colors.

i will say, however, that robb would not necessarily assume that roose would just flay people willy-nilly seeing as they are currently in the midst of a war, and wars tend to make people do things they normally wouldn't. but still, roose is more careful than that.

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Cutting Ramsey would be a big clue that they have no plans to take it past book 3. That or they are not thinking that far ahead and will sort the problem then. I saw an interview last year where they said they wanted to get up to and do the RW justice but weren't sure if they'd continue after that.

Perhaps they'll do the next two series (for book 3) and then take a couple year break while they figure out how they're going to sort out the narrative. I imagine though as Ramsey isn't big until book 5 they wouldn't like to introduce him until that series. They probably don't think the viewer has the attention to track a character every year from series 2 until 4.

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Cutting Ramsey would be a big clue that they have no plans to take it past book 3. That or they are not thinking that far ahead and will sort the problem then. I saw an interview last year where they said they wanted to get up to and do the RW justice but weren't sure if they'd continue after that.

Perhaps they'll do the next two series (for book 3) and then take a couple year break while they figure out how they're going to sort out the narrative. I imagine though as Ramsey isn't big until book 5 they wouldn't like to introduce him until that series. They probably don't think the viewer has the attention to track a character every year from series 2 until 4.

The Wire could have a minor detail mentioned in season 1, and then expect to viewer to pick up on it when they re-explored it in season 5. And that's considered my many, if not most, people to be the best TV show ever made. If the GoT writers ever want to achieve long-living critical claim and leave an artistic legacy, they can't go around being to blatant and obvious about every damn thing. Subtlety rewards repeated viewings and dedication.

I love the show, but they simplify too much at times.

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Why would they make Arya Tywin's cupbearer unless they wanted to cut out Roose's role at Harrenhal?

Lots of reasons:

- Maisie Williams is doing a great job as Arya and they wanted to give her some scenes with another great actor (Charles Dance)- I think I read the producers specifically saying this

- avoids having to introduce even more new characters (ie., that sadistic jerk she works for while Lannisters control the castle)

- expands Tywin's role in the show (as opposed to the book where he's only seen from afar)

- useful way for Arya to learn about how the war is going

- combines Arya being awesome with some exposition- arya-sposition, way better than sexposition

- Explanation for why Arya doesn't have Jagen kill Tywin. He's directing the war against her brother; and tv-show Arya is old enough to know that and know that killing him would help her family. However, Tywin has saved Gendry from torture and death, and being his cupbearer, Arya would see Tywin as a person and would find it harder to have him killled. Presents interesting moral dilemna for Arya and interesting area to explore for her character growth.

Based on plot descriptions, I think Weasel soup (or some variation) is still on the table. One of the future episodes features a description to the effect of "Arya calls in her debt with Jag'hen, in a manner he doesn't like."

I don't think they'll cut much of Arya's stuff from ACOK. It's some of the best stuff from the book, and everyone's recognized that Maisie Williams is awesome.

Maybe this is wishful thinking on my part (I hope not). The Boltons are some of my favorite characters and I'd hate to see them cut.

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Or are the horrible suggestions that Jaime loses his hand pre-release correct?

That would be horrible! I can imagine it being used as his season cliffhanger, but if Catelyn is involved, I'll probably lose all sympathy for show-her. I can understand changing the cup bearer situation, but to completely eradicate major events like the Weasel soup and time of Jaime's maiming would change the entire storyline. Already they're messing with Jeyne/Alyssa and most likely replacing Alyayaya (sp?) with Ros. I really hope it's not dumbed down too much.

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So Roose just dances his way past the Neck all the way north, burns winterfel, comes back down to for a nice weading. Heads back north again, but cant get past the neck so he materializes himself north again with another army to take the neck and welcome himself... :bs:

lol, that puts it into presceptive. I don't think that Ramsey has been entirely cut from the series, I just think he (like the Reeds) will be pushed back to next season. I don't think this season will progress so far that Bran and his gang emerge from the crypts to find Winterfell razed. And even if they do, I don't think we need to have Ramsey explained as a character. We could just have random Bolton men with a helmeted leader who next season will be introduced.

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I saw an interview last year where they said they wanted to get up to and do the RW justice but weren't sure if they'd continue after that.

I think you're misremembering. They've said previously that they're committed to the show however long it takes.

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