Moments of Foreshadowing

[Wouter]

In ACOK:

"Harren and all his line had perished in the fires that engulfed his monstrous fortress, and every house that held Harrenhal since had come to misfortune. Strong it might be, but it was a dark place, and cursed."

Very foreshadowing

Doesn't sound good for Bolton, and probably not for LF either. :)

[Fire Eater]

Alyssa Arryn had seen her husband, her brothers, and all her children slain, and yet in life she had never shed a tear. So in death, the gods had decreed that she would know no rest until her weeping had watered the black earth of the Vale, where the men she had loved were buried. . . . Catelyn wondered how large a waterfall her own tears would make when she died.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Much and more is made of Ned's idea that the lord who condemns a man to death should execute that man himself. This action is considered extremely honorable, very Stark and very Northern, so much so that people who are entitled to, or want to, take Ned's place try to emulate Ned. Theon does it, Robb Stark does it, Jon does it – and Arya does it. She executes a deserter from the Night's Watch with her own hand, just like a Lord of Winterfell. Hmmmn . . .

[FittleLinger]

Much and more is made of Ned's idea that the lord who condemns a man to death should execute that man himself. This action is considered extremely honorable, very Stark and very Northern, so much so that people who are entitled to, or want to, take Ned's place. Theon does it, Robb Stark does it, Jon does it – and Arya does it. She executes a deserter from the Night's Watch with her own hand, just like a Lord of Winterfell. Hmmmn . . .

Hmm, I think this is to show us that she is still a Stark deep inside - Stark instincts emerge - to kill the deserter (and not any deserter - night's watch deserter). Also - only the Stark boys are shown the executions, and I think Arya would be fascinated by them more than her sister's songs and tapestries.

Now, it could also be foreeshadowing. Are you suggesting that she could rule Winterfell one day, or that awful things happen to those who have done it the Stark way?

[Xango]

Much and more is made of Ned's idea that the lord who condemns a man to death should execute that man himself. This action is considered extremely honorable, very Stark and very Northern, so much so that people who are entitled to, or want to, take Ned's place. Theon does it, Robb Stark does it, Jon does it – and Arya does it. She executes a deserter from the Night's Watch with her own hand, just like a Lord of Winterfell. Hmmmn . . .

I took this as a sign that she'll be a Stark and not no one by series end.

Well, that and dead. Plenty foreshadowing of that too.

[Fwaatcha]

I think Euron is in league with the Storm god.

Aeron states that he himself fears no mortal man, but Aeron is afraid of Euron. Aeron is particularly opposed to Euron, calling him a godless man; the Storm god is the historical enemy of the Ironborn.

Euron may have summoned the wind the blew Balon off the bridge.

After the sack of the Sheild Islands, Victarion visits Euron in the captured lord's chambers and the description of the wind swirlng around Euron seems like he actually summoned it. This would also explain all his sailing feats, if he can command the winds.

And yes, the castle at Storm's End is enchanted against some powerful magical enemy; its very name suggests the identity of this enemy force.

So Euron and the Storm god may be another invasion front for Westeros.

My crackpot creepy theory is that there will be 7 forces of nature altogether that Westeros will face. They all will have their own brand of undead servants, and they will have historical alliances and animosities with one another, and also strengths and weaknesses against each other, kind of a rock, paper, scissors, lizard, Spock. Kirk, Khan game.

So far we've got ice (Others), fire (Rh'llor), water (Drowned god) and wind (Storm god). Three more forces we haven't seen yet or not noticed.

Bran and the Weirwoods might be conisdered an "Earth god"

[ARYa_Nym]

I don't think Arya killed Dareon because she was trying to emulate the Starks and their brand of justice.

She never thinks that my father would have killed him. What she does think is that she wanted him to take her to Eastwatch.

“When Dareon had first appeared at the Happy Port, Arya had almost asked if he would take her with him back to Eastwatch, until she heard him telling Bethany that he was never going back.”

She contemplated killing a woman who cheated her when she wanted to sell Craven. She didn't have enough money to go to the Wall then.

I think for both cases she was angry and resentful.

Also, Arya doing it isn't the same. She didn't have the jurisdiction to do that. & Ned always preached about looking a man in his eye then beheading him. Arya didn't do that.

"If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die....A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is."

Not to mention the KM told her afterwards that she cannot be judge and executioner. That's not what the FM do.

[Ice Turtle]

I don't think Arya killed Dareon because she was trying to emulate the Starks and their brand of justice.

She never thinks that my father would have killed him. What she does think is that she wanted him to take her to Eastwatch.

She contemplated killing a woman who cheated her when she wanted to sell Craven. She didn't have enough money to go to the Wall then.

I think for both cases she was angry and resentful.

Also, Arya doing it isn't the same. She didn't have the jurisdiction to do that. & Ned always preached about looking a man in his eye then beheading him. Arya didn't do that.

Not to mention the KM told her afterwards that she cannot be judge and executioner. That's not what the FM do.

She might have been angry, resentful and absolutely morally wrong but I disagree that she killed Dareon because he refused to take her to the Wall, she killed him because he confirmed he deserted. That she decided to do it as Arya Stark and not Cat is telling.

The end of the rant. Sorry for being off topic

Now three little Arya quotes:

“I wish I had a good mean dog,” said Arya wistfully. “A lion-killing dog.”

“I wish I had a flaming sword.” Arya could think of lots of people she’d like to set on fire.

“I wish I was home,” she said miserably. She tried so hard to be brave, to be fierce as a wolverine and all, but sometimes she felt like she was just a little girl after all.

She got the dog, sort of, but the quote about the sword is interesting, another red herring for AA candidate.

[ARYa_Nym]

She might have been angry, resentful and absolutely morally wrong but I disagree that she killed Dareon because he refused to take her to the Wall, she killed him because he confirmed he deserted. That she decided to do it as Arya Stark and not Cat is telling.

The end of the rant. Sorry for being off topic

She did kill him for deserting. If he had not deserted then he possibly could have taken her to the Wall. I don't think it was about Stark justice at all.

[Pod The Impaler]

I don't think Arya killed Dareon because she was trying to emulate the Starks and their brand of justice.

She never thinks that my father would have killed him. What she does think is that she wanted him to take her to Eastwatch.

Also, Arya doing it isn't the same. She didn't have the jurisdiction to do that. & Ned always preached about looking a man in his eye then beheading him. Arya didn't do that.

I disagree. She is of the North, she has known what happens to NW deserters since she ever heard they exist. The Starks have always hunted such deserters down.

And she did look him in the eye - when she was speaking to him, deciding. What she didn't do was say "I sentence you to death in the name of ...". But he betrayed the NW - she's of the North, and more to the point, Jon is one of the NW "brothers" that Dareon betrayed by deserting.

She did do the execution herself. She was acting as Arya Stark when she did it - the Kindly Man even says so.

[7V3N]

I disagree. She is of the North, she has known what happens to NW deserters since she ever heard they exist. The Starks have always hunted such deserters down.

And she did look him in the eye - when she was speaking to him, deciding. What she didn't do was say "I sentence you to death in the name of ...". But he betrayed the NW - she's of the North, and more to the point, Jon is one of the NW "brothers" that Dareon betrayed by deserting.

She did do the execution herself. She was acting as Arya Stark when she did it - the Kindly Man even says so.

But Arya did not execute him out of a sense of justice and respect for law. Actually, the opposite. She did it out of anger and in ignorance of all laws (those in Braavos and those for the FM).

[Field of Asphodel]

Tyrion and Lady Oleanna, from Joffrey's Wedding:

"...The master of coin must remain at court to see that all the armies are paid for."

"To be sure. Dragons and stags, that's very clever. And dwarf's pennies as well. I have heard of these dwarf's pennies. No doubt collecting those is such a dreadful chore."

"I leave the coin collecting to others, my lady."

"Oh, do you? I would have thought you might want to tend to it yourself. We can't have the crown being cheated of it's dwarf's pennies, now. Can we?

"God's forbid." Tyrion was beginning to wonder whether Lord Luther Tyrell had ridden off that cliff intentionally.

It's not really foreshadowing so much as a very very veiled reference to something that can't at all be anticipated. On the face of it, Oleanna is just kind of being a B. about Tyrion's dwarfism. Bonus points 'cause the dwarf girl who will reappear later is at the wedding. And finally, I understand now why Tyrion hated Penny's name (it's an allusion to a dwarf penny).

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Hmm, I think this is to show us that she is still a Stark deep inside - Stark instincts emerge - to kill the deserter (and not any deserter - night's watch deserter). Also - only the Stark boys are shown the executions, and I think Arya would be fascinated by them more than her sister's songs and tapestries.

Now, it could also be foreeshadowing. Are you suggesting that she could rule Winterfell one day, or that awful things happen to those who have done it the Stark way?

Yes, I think that she demonstrated that she has the right stuff to stand in Ned's shoes and do the tough stuff a Lord of Winterfell needs to do.

I think she did have jurisdiction to deal with Dareon, too. She may not be the Stark of Winter yet, but she IS the Stark of Braavos, the only person there who knew or cared what needed to be done with a deserter from the Night's Watch. I think that's why she told the Kindly Man that "Arya Stark" had done this thing. It also doesn't seem like the Braavosi are that hard on murderers – the bravos apparently fight to the death in a public square, bodies are found floating in the canals, etc. The KM's main interest, however, is enforcing the rules of his sect – which, I might add, he did in a much better way than the High Septon enforced his – and so he penalized Arya. On the other hand he let her skip a grade in FM training because her execution of Dareon showed that she had the right stuff to be a FM, too.

However, I DON'T WANT ANY MORE STARKS TO DIE, so even though I think Arya could be the She-Wolf of Winterfell, I don't want her to do so if it means her siblings and their wolves have to die.

[FittleLinger]

I don't think Arya killed Dareon because she was trying to emulate the Starks and their brand of justice.

She never thinks that my father would have killed him. What she does think is that she wanted him to take her to Eastwatch.

She contemplated killing a woman who cheated her when she wanted to sell Craven. She didn't have enough money to go to the Wall then.

I think for both cases she was angry and resentful.

Also, Arya doing it isn't the same. She didn't have the jurisdiction to do that. & Ned always preached about looking a man in his eye then beheading him. Arya didn't do that.

Not to mention the KM told her afterwards that she cannot be judge and executioner. That's not what the FM do.

It's open to discussion, and more importantly - irrelevant. We are talking foreshadowing and parallels here - she is Arya Stark, and she killed a Night's Watch deserter.

[ARYa_Nym]

The KM was going to blind her anyway. She had to be blind longer because killing Dareon showed that she needed discipline.

"I killed Cat when I killed that singer. The kindly man had told her that they would have taken her eyes from her anyway (...) but not for half a year."

“When you slew the singer, you took god’s powers on yourself. We kill men, but we do not presume to judge them. Do you understand?” No, she thought. “Yes,” she said. “You lie. And that is why you must now walk in darkness until you see the way. Unless you wish to leave us. You need only ask, and you may have your eyes back.” No, she thought. “No,” she said.”

It's open to discussion, and more importantly - irrelevant. We are talking foreshadowing and parallels here - she is Arya Stark, and she killed a Night's Watch deserter.

I think it's relevant if it's interpreted that she did something Ned Stark would do so that means that she'll be a Stark at the end. That's not what happened.

The Dareon episode might signify a bittersweet ending for her. She won't be able to have a stable life because she won't be able to stop killing. She played at a stable life as Cat then when she killed Dareon the KM prevented her from being Cat. When her blindness was over he said that you could be Cat forever but she said no and chose killing instead. She also said that Arya Stark was dead.

[FittleLinger]

The KM was going to blind her anyway. She had to be blind longer because killing Dareon showed that she needed discipline.

I think it's relevant if it's interpreted that she did something Ned Stark would do so that means that she'll be a Stark at the end. That's not what happened.

The Dareon episode might signify a bittersweet ending for her. She won't be able to have a stable life because she won't be able to stop killing. She played at a stable life as Cat then when she killed Dareon the KM prevented her from being Cat. When her blindness was over he said that you could be Cat forever but she said no and chose killing instead. She also said that Arya Stark was dead.

I disagree with both your points sorry.

First, I think foreshadowing works regardless of her intentions. I mean - even if she killed him, say, unintentionally, we still would have the case of "Arya Stark killed a night's watch deserter". If we counted intentions, it would be simple hinting, and not foreshadowing. One of the most interesting things about foreshadowing is that two things happen under different circumstances, but the result is the same in the end. I might not be using the best wording here, but I think you're catching my drift.

And second, I don't think Dareon's killing was an emotional outburst, I think she judged him, and killed him mainly because he was NW deserter. She admitted to the Kindly man that Arya Stark did it, and he told her, as per your quote, that they shouldn't judge. And then we have the fact that he abandoned his brothers on the wall, and one of these brothers happens to be her beloved brother - Jon. It was not as impulsive as the stable boy killing.

That being said, even if my points in the previous paragraph are not correct, and you are in fact right, which I don't think is the case, it would still be foreshadowing (should something happen in the future to prove it was foreshadowing, of course).

[ARYa_Nym]

I disagree with both your points sorry.

First, I think foreshadowing works regardless of her intentions. I mean - even if she killed him, say, unintentionally, we still would have the case of "Arya Stark killed a night's watch deserter". If we counted intentions, it would be simple hinting, and not foreshadowing. One of the most interesting things about foreshadowing is that two things happen under different circumstances, but the result is the same in the end. I might not be using the best wording here, but I think you're catching my drift.

And second, I don't think Dareon's killing was an emotional outburst, I think she judged him, and killed him mainly because he was NW deserter. She admitted to the Kindly man that Arya Stark did it, and he told her, as per your quote, that they shouldn't judge. And then we have the fact that he abandoned his brothers on the wall, and one of these brothers happens to be her beloved brother - Jon. It was not as impulsive as the stable boy killing.

That being said, even if my points in the previous paragraph are not correct, and you are in fact right, which I don't think is the case, it would still be foreshadowing (should something happen in the future to prove it was foreshadowing, of course).

It definitely wasn't impulsive like the stable boy. For the first time she committed calculated murder. She has become a predator. It parallels nicely with her links to cats. She observes her prey first and waits to strike for the right moment. Then goes in for the kill.

She did kill him for deserting like I said. I also said that she was angry because he was deserting. She wanting him to take her to the Wall. He could not do that anymore if he was deserting. She observed him for a while and got angrier with him.

He is a man of the Night’s Watch, she thought, as he sang about some stupid lady throwing herself off some stupid tower because her stupid prince was dead. The lady should go kill the ones who killed her prince. And the singer should be on the Wall.

She's been wanting to go to the Wall since AGoT. This was a good chance for her and as far as she was concerned he blew it.

My point still stands that after she got her discipline for killing Dareon she decided that Arya Stark was dead.

[FittleLinger]

It definitely wasn't impulsive like the stable boy. For the first time she committed calculated murder. She has become a predator. It parallels nicely with her links to cats. She observes her prey first and waits to strike for the right moment. Then goes in for the kill.

She did kill him for deserting like I said. I also said that she was angry because he was deserting. She wanting him to take her to the Wall. He could not do that anymore if he was deserting. She observed him for a while and got angrier with him.

She's been wanting to go to the Wall since AGoT. This was a good chance for her and as far as she was concerned he blew it.

My point still stands that after she got her discipline for killing Dareon she decided that Arya Stark was dead.

She didn't kill him because "I could be on the wall if he wasn't a deserter", but "He should be on the wall". And the quote you picked was the "Starkiest" possible - we've got a Night's watch deserter, Arya Stark, a song about a lady jumping off a tower for her son being dead (Ned Stark/Brandon Stark - Ashara Dayne, anyone?), and the Wall mentioned in one sentence.

[ARYa_Nym]

She didn't kill him because "I could be on the wall if he wasn't a deserter", but "He should be on the wall". And the quote you picked was the "Starkiest" possible - we've got a Night's watch deserter, Arya Stark, a song about a lady jumping off a tower for her son being dead (Ned Stark/Brandon Stark - Ashara Dayne, anyone?), and the Wall mentioned in one sentence.

I don't think there is anything "Stark" really. The Starks have ranges. Ned was nothing like some of the Kings of Winter that we know like Brandon Ice Eyes for example. He's not like his immediate siblings either.

That quote showed vengeance. The woman threw herself off a tower because someone killed her prince. Arya thinks that the woman should get vengeance and kill those who took her loved one from her. Then she thinks that Dareon should be on the Wall. It links to what she previously said about wanting to ask him if he was going to Eastwatch.

[FittleLinger]

I don't think there is anything "Stark" really. The Starks have ranges. Ned was nothing like some of the Kings of Winter that we know like Brandon Ice Eyes for example. He's not like his immediate siblings either.

That quote showed vengeance. The woman threw herself off a tower because someone killed her prince. Arya thinks that the woman should get vengeance and kill those who took her loved one from her. Then she thinks that Dareon should be on the Wall. It links to what she previously said about wanting to ask him if he was going to Eastwatch.

Ok, I think we exhausted the topic, we agree to disagree. I don't want to niptuck on this anymore, people who read our discussion will make up their minds for themselves.

My greater point was that her intentions really don't matter in interpreting whether this is foreshadowing or not.