[Book Spoilers] Pre-airing Discussion

[Jamie Lannister]

I felt so guilty so ROFLing at this but it's just so funny. Found it on an imdb thread titled "Luwin pays the Iron Price"

http://cdn.wg.uproxx...012/05/nooo.gif

Hahahahaha oh wow.

Anyway, I think Robb is talking about Theon in the trailer. He's going to go batshit when he learns about Bran and Rickon.

[Strider]

Surely Robb is talking about tracking down Jaime Lannister, whom his mother helped to escape (the betrayal of which the preview speaks).

[Jamie Lannister]

Eh, yeah... that does seem more likely. The "betrayal" might be related to Karstark though.

[Silverx2]

with the end of the season coming and the leaving of JH it does bring up certain questions.

!.) are they going to show that he can change his face?

2.)is it going to be the same actor with makeup/prostetic, or a different actor?

3.)is this going to be the actual last time we see him? Clearly george has a plan which is why we see him in AFFC, however what are they going to do for the 2 seasons hes not doing anything?

4.)could we possibly get an early look at the temple of black and white on bravos, maybe JH telling the kindly old man to expect a young highborn visitor?

[DragonAge93]

Just because Dagmer is taking Ramsay's part of this storyline doesn't mean he is Ramsay. Dagmer is a whole character in himself, and you can tell he's lived among the Ironborn for his life, whereas that would never be the case with Ramsay. The writers probably just wanted an Ironborn at Theon's side, to further his allegiance to the Iron Islands, instead of having the prisoner Ramsay somehow worm his way into Theon's good graces.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Have we been watching the same show?

This is one of the least faithful adaptation of a book series I've ever seen with most of the deviations made apparently for the hell of it when the plots from the book could have been filmed just as easily. It's such a shame considering how faithful season 1 was.

One of the least faithful adaptations you've ever seen? Seriously, this makes me wonder if you've ever seen ANY other adaptations of novels, comic books, stage plays, or video games. This is, bar none, one of the most faithful book-to-screen adaptations I've ever seen; and I've seen a lot of them. Just for an example, care to list a few adaptations that were more faithful to the source material than Game of Thrones? ...I'll wait...

[protar]

One of the least faithful adaptations you've ever seen? Seriously, this makes me wonder if you've ever seen ANY other adaptations of novels, comic books, stage plays, or video games. This is, bar none, one of the most faithful book-to-screen adaptations I've ever seen; and I've seen a lot of them. Just for an example, care to list a few adaptations that were more faithful to the source material than Game of Thrones? ...I'll wait...

Perhaps one of the worst is an exaggeration, but yes I think it's done pretty badly as an adaptation. As a standalone show it's some of the best TV out there, but Season 2 at least is fairly unfaithful to the show, especially in these last few episodes. It's just that it most adaptations I've seen mostly are just constrained to cutting things out or compressing them, which is irksome but necessary with time and budgetary constraints. I could probably think of an example but off the top of my head I can't think of any other adaptation which outright adds so much material. That's my main gripe.

As for more faithful examples. Well what about Lotr, or Harry Potter, or Twilight? (even though I hate Twilight.)

We didn't have Snape beating Proffesor Slughorn to death did we? Or we didn't have Haldir stealing the one ring in order to become King of the elves and open Lothlorien to the world did we? Now before you go all mad, please note that they're exaggerated arguments but they get my point across. Most adaptations I have seen simply compress or cut. GOT is outright adding stuff. So no I don't think it's being very faithful. It was but no more, and I can only hope that Martin has some strong words with D+D so they get their act together for S3.

[Targaryen Kaiser]

We didn't have Snape beating Proffesor Slughorn to death did we? Or we didn't have Haldir stealing the one ring in order to become King of the elves and open Lothlorien to the world did we? Now before you go all mad, please note that they're exaggerated arguments but they get my point across.

They don't get your point across exactly because your arguments are exaggerated. There were no changes in GoT tv of the magnitude you just described. I think that considering the television's rules, restrictions and timelines, the series are quite faithful to the books.

[ledlevee]

As far as Ramsay goes, I think he will show up at the beginning of next season. They'll work it out so it can be done this way. They won't introduce a main character who will need a good, expensive actor to play him, at the end of a season so he can just do a few shows with a few scenes of him in there. Doesn't make sense for television. They'll probably talk about him, but find a way to not introduce the character until Season 3, so they can give the actor a prominent role.

[protar]

They don't get your point across exactly because your arguments are exaggerated. There were no changes in GoT tv of the magnitude you just described. I think that considering the television's rules, restrictions and timelines, the series are quite faithful to the books.

Fine, if you weren't satisfied with those examples lets go to the show itself shall we?

Lets take Jon's story. What was the purpose of Jon tying up Ygritte and then getting captured by the widlings? They could easily have filmed it as it happened in the books, so it would go like:

E5: Jon chosen by Qhorin.

E6: Meets Ygritte and lets her go

E7: Jon has his wolf dream (sans the eagle.). Then him and the others are pursued by rangers and a couple go back to hold the pass.

E8: Qhorin sends a ranger back to the fist to bring word to the fist of what Jon saw in his wolf dream.

E9: Jon doesn't appear.

E10: Jon and Qhorin are alone. We get the whole false oathbreaking thing.

Perfectly manageable, exciting TV, no reason whatsoever not to do it like that. But instead of an exciting chase through the wilderness and a budding mentor relationship between Jon and Qhorin that remains faithful to the books, we get about 10 minutes of Ygritte talking about boners. Can you honestly tell me that that was an improvement, or justify such a change? And that's just one possible example of many.

[Laohu]

This is one of the least faithful adaptation of a book series I've ever seen with most of the deviations made apparently for the hell of it when the plots from the book could have been filmed just as easily.

Apparently, you never read The Sword of Truth book series and subsequently watched its TV adaptation, Legend of the Seeker...

[protar]

Apparently, you never read The Sword of Truth book series and subsequently watched its TV adaptation, Legend of the Seeker...

I believe i've seen a film called legend of the seeker. Haven't read the books though no. My real point though wasn't to rank GOT in a list of adaptations, it was to point out that it adds a lot of stuff in where it should merely be compressing.

[PatrickStormborn]

Perhaps one of the worst is an exaggeration, but yes I think it's done pretty badly as an adaptation. As a standalone show it's some of the best TV out there, but Season 2 at least is fairly unfaithful to the show, especially in these last few episodes. It's just that it most adaptations I've seen mostly are just constrained to cutting things out or compressing them, which is irksome but necessary with time and budgetary constraints. I could probably think of an example but off the top of my head I can't think of any other adaptation which outright adds so much material. That's my main gripe.

As for more faithful examples. Well what about Lotr, or Harry Potter, or Twilight? (even though I hate Twilight.)

We didn't have Snape beating Proffesor Slughorn to death did we? Or we didn't have Haldir stealing the one ring in order to become King of the elves and open Lothlorien to the world did we? Now before you go all mad, please note that they're exaggerated arguments but they get my point across. Most adaptations I have seen simply compress or cut. GOT is outright adding stuff. So no I don't think it's being very faithful. It was but no more, and I can only hope that Martin has some strong words with D+D so they get their act together for S3.

Personally I prefer adaptations which change elements of the book in order to advance the story, as opposed to adaptations which just summarise the books (Harry Potter, for example).

[protar]

Personally I prefer adaptations which change elements of the book in order to advance the story, as opposed to adaptations which just summarise the books (Harry Potter, for example).

So do I. I don't think GOT has done that. Or if it has it's also been adding stuff.

[PatrickStormborn]

So do I. I don't think GOT has done that. Or if it has it's also been adding stuff.

I don't think any changes have been detrimental to the plot; in fact, I think everything they've added has been beneficial -- even the stealing of Dany's dragons, if it turns out the way I'm expecting it to.

[protar]

I don't think any changes have been detrimental to the plot; in fact, I think everything they've added has been beneficial -- even the stealing of Dany's dragons, if it turns out the way I'm expecting it to.

So you actually think that these changes are better than the book? Honestly being curious here. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree but personally I want as little added stuff as possible. It would be great if D+D could like make a list of all the deviations and give their justifications. It'd be a great gift to the book purists and it'd really put me at ease if I knew that D+D hadn't just stopped caring about the source material as I'm sometimes resigned to thinking.

[PatrickStormborn]

So you actually think that these changes are better than the book? Honestly being curious here. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree but personally I want as little added stuff as possible. It would be great if D+D could like make a list of all the deviations and give their justifications. It'd be a great gift to the book purists and it'd really put me at ease if I knew that D+D hadn't just stopped caring about the source material as I'm sometimes resigned to thinking.

The book is the book, and the show is the show. The books aren't perfect, and the show is not perfect. I've never said I prefer the changes; I do, however, think they are all beneficial to the plot in a way that sticking to the books would not be.

[protar]

The book is the book, and the show is the show. The books aren't perfect, and the show is not perfect. I've never said I prefer the changes; I do, however, think they are all beneficial to the plot in a way that sticking to the books would not be.

An example perhaps? For instance why do you think that it wouldn't have worked to keep Jon's plot the same as in the book?

[gogorath]

I believe i've seen a film called legend of the seeker. Haven't read the books though no. My real point though wasn't to rank GOT in a list of adaptations, it was to point out that it adds a lot of stuff in where it should merely be compressing.

That's not how you do an adaptation. Or rather, it's a disastrous way to do an adaptation.

You almost always have to cut content going from a novel to a movie or show. But if it's well-written source material, the development of the themes and characters took place in those scenes. So often you need to rewrite or replace scenes -- to add content -- just to accelerate or accentuate the development.

[protar]

That's not how you do an adaptation. Or rather, it's a disastrous way to do an adaptation.

You almost always have to cut content going from a novel to a movie or show. But if it's well-written source material, the development of the themes and characters took place in those scenes. So often you need to rewrite or replace scenes -- to add content -- just to accelerate or accentuate the development.

I understand that. So some of the added scenes I do this, like Theon writing his letter and being baptised and later him executing Rodrik. I don't for example think that Jon's changed story arc has done this. Especially seeing as it wouldn't have taken up any more space to do it as it was done in the books so your idea that such a change served to convey information that had to be cut from the show doesn't work.