The Future of House Baratheon

[danm_999]

Actually I believe he was, the storm kings before him had another name but I get your point.

Orys Baratheon was Aegon the Conqueror's bastard brother. He married into the Storm King line through the females, making House Baratheon a line of legitimised bastards.

Still why would any future king want to legitimise them?

A future king might want a compliant Baratheon bastard who is legitimised to rule the Stormlands. There are so gosh darn many of them I can't imagine Martin has introduced them to completely ignore them in subsequent novels.

[Fire and Blood!]

Orys Baratheon was Aegon the Conqueror's bastard brother. He married into the Storm King line through the females, making House Baratheon a line of legitimised bastards.

I know he was Aegon's bastard brother but house Baratheon didn't exist before him so he couldn't have gotten the name from his wife.

A future king might want a compliant Baratheon bastard who is legitimised to rule the Stormlands. There are so gosh darn many of them I can't imagine Martin has introduced them to completely ignore them in subsequent novels.

I'd say there would be better options for the future king/queen for lord of the Stormlands.As for the bastards sure they'd probably have some role to play but I just don't think they'll be very important.

[danm_999]

I know he was Aegon's bastard brother but house Baratheon didn't exist before him so he couldn't have gotten the name from his wife.

No, it was made from a legitimised bastard. Hence legitimised bastards seem very well suited to continue the House's name if Stannis and Shireen can't.

I'd say there would be better options for the future king/queen for lord of the Stormlands.As for the bastards sure they'd probably have some role to play but I just don't think they'll be very important.

This is speculative territory, but I honestly think at least one of Robert's many established bastards will be in the position to carry on the Baratheon name, if not Stannis' line.

Otherwise, what's the point of establishing them?

[lojzelote]

Orys Baratheon was Aegon the Conqueror's bastard brother. He married into the Storm King line through the females, making House Baratheon a line of legitimised bastards.

A future king might want a compliant Baratheon bastard who is legitimised to rule the Stormlands. There are so gosh darn many of them I can't imagine Martin has introduced them to completely ignore them in subsequent novels.

I don't think his marriage to Argella legitimised him. Ramsay Snow didn't become legitimate after marrying Lady Hornwood. Orys only married spoils of war woman with a claim to the Stormlands. His children by her were legitimate, the heirs, but he himself stayed a bastard as far as we know, although one with rich and noble wife.

What king/queen would legitimise Robert's bastards? They would only mean danger to them and their descendants. It would be far more practical to give the Stormlands to one of their faithful followers, or even keep it for themselves, just like the Crownlands.

[Shoemaker]

I thought Orys was only rumored to be Aegon's bastard half-brother as the appendix stated, so I checked the wiki. It was in agreement with that. Additionally it states that he married Argella and adopted the banners, honors and words of her line. So to me it seems like he married Argella to, in a way, legitimize his claim to the Stormlands (same reason as Ramsay marries fake Arya) and taking her banners, honors and words is a strategy to endear him to the former Stormking's vassals.

And I don't see any problems with the next Lord of Storm's End is to be one of Robert's bastards (possibly a return to their roots?). But I don't see anyway for Robert's bastards to make Lord/Lady of Storm's End but as a pawn for somebody else to appease the Stormlands. And for that, Edric Storm is the best candidate (of some of the same reasons as marrying Argella was a good move for Orys. Edric Storm is of noble birth, he is Robert's only recognized bastard, he has the grooming/education for it and he is familiar to the Stormlands, its lords and probably their customs. Stannis offering to legitimize Jon just shows what a valuable pawn a recognized bastard can be + the occasional lord of the Stormlords, such as Cortnay Penrose, has been shown himself).

So maybe it isn't accidental that GRRM shipped him off to Essos?

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

In fact, it's just Shireen and Stannis, and it's unlikely that Stannis would father another child, I don't know if he has plans for Edric, he was with the boy and told people he really like the boy.

So, maybe some plan with Edric being a king?

[Stormking Alesander I]

The true Stormking, Alesander Durrendon (aka Beron Northolt) will march to Storm's End, kick the shit out of everyone and restore Durrendon rule on the Stormlands, Crownlands and Riverlands. Alesander FTW

[averde]

Once the male line is extinct the house is considered gone as we saw with the Blackfyres

For house Baratheon to survive either Stannis needs to live long enough to have a son or Tommen needs to live long enough to have a son. One of them isn't interested in the marriage bed with his wife and the others a child. On top of that they are both in precarious positions where they could easily die.

House Baratheon seems to be pretty screwed.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

House Baratheon is going the way of the Blackfyres. They sealed their fate when they screwed with the main family of the series.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

I don't see why Shireen's children wouldn't be Baratheon, or at the very least, her heir. After all, it is daughters before brothers in inheritance. It would make more sense in cases where such as this, the daughter passes her name to the children. Otherwise, a family could lose their lands despite having plenty of members still in which makes little sense.

Let's take another example, Cersei. Cersei is now the ruler of Casterly Rock. Is there any way that the Lannisters are going to lose the Westerlands to "House Baratheon?" *Or is it most likely that Myrcella or one of Tommen's future children will simply take the Lannister name and continue the line?

*Assuming they live which I am sure is what the Lannisters are planning on.

[averde]

I don't see why Shireen's children wouldn't be Baratheon, or at the very least, her heir. After all, it is daughters before brothers in inheritance. It would make more sense in cases where such as this, the daughter passes her name to the children. Otherwise, a family could lose their lands despite having plenty of members still in which makes little sense.

Let's take another example, Cersei. Cersei is now the ruler of Casterly Rock. Is there any way that the Lannisters are going to lose the Westerlands to "House Baratheon?" *Or is it most likely that Myrcella or one of Tommen's future children will simply take the Lannister name and continue the line?

*Assuming they live which I am sure is what the Lannisters are planning on.

The "blood" is still there but the name is gone. For example house Blackfyre is considered gone because the male line is extinct.

In the case of CR with Cersei, I would assume she would want Myrcella or if Tommen has a few extra sons to rule the Rock, but they would remain Baratheon. They might do something like have a quartered sigil with both the Baratheon stag and Lannister lion to represent their mixed blood. There's plenty of examples of this from the book such as Lancel and his Frey wife who get castle Darry, they quarter their sigil with the Darry plough man to show they have blood linking them to the previous rulers even though the ruler is a Lannister.

[Syrio the Dancer]

I can see Dany picking up Edric in Free Cities, legitimising him on the way and using him to rally at least some Baratheon bannermen to her cause. After all he is similar to both Renly and Robert, the two Baratheons actually liked by their bannermen, so this might work.

This is what I would do, but more importantly I believe this is what Tyrion would do, so if he ends up Danys advisor its totally probable

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

House Baratheon is going the way of the Blackfyres. They sealed their fate when they screwed with the main family of the series.

I don't know the Starks love Baratheons.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

The "blood" is still there but the name is gone. For example house Blackfyre is considered gone because the male line is extinct.

In the case of CR with Cersei, I would assume she would want Myrcella or if Tommen has a few extra sons to rule the Rock, but they would remain Baratheon. They might do something like have a quartered sigil with both the Baratheon stag and Lannister lion to represent their mixed blood. There's plenty of examples of this from the book such as Lancel and his Frey wife who get castle Darry, they quarter their sigil with the Darry plough man to show they have blood linking them to the previous rulers even though the ruler is a Lannister.

Except that's not the same thing. House Darry has been proclaimed "destroyed" by the "winning" side in a war. That's a bit different simply losing land and title because the current ruler only had (a) daughter(s). Add in the obvious case of nepotism from a corrupt ruling House, it's hard to claim this was standard procedure.

If it was, why would daughters come before brothers? They can rule in their own right, but not keep the lands in their family? Power comes from family and it seems odd to let it be destroyed when others could conceivably keep it alive.

I will say that there might not be a standard procedure, and it may end up on a case to case basis. For example, a second son from a powerful family might overtake his wife's family while a second son from a less powerful family does not.

But considering that Stannis does not appear to see any threat of House Baratheon ending because he has no son, I figure he is not worried for good reason.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

I don't know the Starks love Baratheons.

With the exception of maybe Arya, this current generation of Starks doesn't love them.

[Pod The Rod]

The "blood" is still there but the name is gone. For example house Blackfyre is considered gone because the male line is extinct.

In the case of CR with Cersei, I would assume she would want Myrcella or if Tommen has a few extra sons to rule the Rock, but they would remain Baratheon. They might do something like have a quartered sigil with both the Baratheon stag and Lannister lion to represent their mixed blood. There's plenty of examples of this from the book such as Lancel and his Frey wife who get castle Darry, they quarter their sigil with the Darry plough man to show they have blood linking them to the previous rulers even though the ruler is a Lannister.

This is not true, as I tire of explaining. Blackfyre is considered extinct because none of the women engaged in matrilineal marriages to pass the name on. It is entirely possible to do so. Ask yourself- if women cannot pass on the family name, THEN HOW IS HOUSE MARTELL STILL AROUND?

[I Remain Unvanquished]

This is not true, as I tire of explaining. Blackfyre is considered extinct because none of the women engaged in matrilineal marriages to pass the name on. It is entirely possible to do so. Ask yourself- if women cannot pass on the family name, THEN HOW IS HOUSE MARTELL STILL AROUND?

There is also the Mormonts, the Waynwoods, the Stokeworths, and the Oakhearts. For that matter, if the house lost it's name because of a female heir than House Arryn would have gone extinct after the Dance of Dragons since it was being led by a woman.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

With the exception of maybe Arya, this current generation of Starks doesn't love them.

Sansa and Mya, BFFs