A Thread for Small Questions XVIII

[Lykos]

@HannibalStark, read this and come back if you still have any questions.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

have you read where Dany goes bald again after being carried off by Drogan? I'm pretty sure surviving the pyre, dragon fire and the couple of other instances mentioned about her not being burnt, mean that being the "unburnt" is a gift, not a unique singular event.

Have you read where it clearly describes her ducking the flames and not taking them head on? Her hair caught fire but the rest of her didn't, evidenced by her unburned and unsinged clothing. She also sustained burns on her hands. She's not fire-proof. This madness needs to stop, seriously.

[kissdbyfire]

have you read where Dany goes bald again after being carried off by Drogan? I'm pretty sure surviving the pyre, dragon fire and the couple of other instances mentioned about her not being burnt, mean that being the "unburnt" is a gift, not a unique singular event.

Don't take my word for it, here are GRRM's own words:

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/945/

http://wayback.archive.org/web/jsp/Interstitial.jsp?seconds=5&date=970780874000&url=http%3A%2F%2Feventhorizon.com%2Fsfzine%2Fchats%2Ftranscripts%2F031899.html&target=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20001005212114%2Feventhorizon.com%2Fsfzine%2Fchats%2Ftranscripts%2F031899.html

[kissdbyfire]

Double post.

[kissdbyfire]

Have you read where it clearly describes her ducking the flames and not taking them head on? Her hair caught fire but the rest of her didn't, evidenced by her unburned and unsinged clothing. She also sustained burns on her hands. She's not fire-proof. This madness needs to stop, seriously.

Bottoms up, Apple Martini! :P

[HannibalStark]

then allow me to clarify, it would seem that even a dragon's breath might be a little hotter than sitting the middle of a funeral pyre, though I doubt we can ever know. I do not think (never thought) Dany was 100% fire proof, rather her "unique gift" is to endure fire/heat where others couldn't...or heal from burns/heat related injuries quickly.

It seems like her burns are healing extremely fast compared to other people, but again, this can not be known for sure, unless someone comments later on or about her having scars from burns, or there being a discussion about how she is healed or scar free.

*edited for grammar

But aren't there mentions of her withstanding heat which others couldn't before the blood magic?

Thank you for allowing me to clarify, I agree, there a many things that get carried away (*ahem ice dragons *cough) and crazy theories that need to be stopped.

[kissdbyfire]

then allow me to clarify, it would seem that even a dragon's breath might be a little hotter than sitting the middle of a funeral pyre, though I doubt we can ever know. I do not think (never thought) Dany was 100% fire proof. Her "unique gift" to endure fire/heat where others couldn't.. and it also seems like her burns are healing extremely fast compared to other people, but again, this can not be known for sure, unless someone there are comments later on about her having scars from burns.

But aren't there mentions of her withstanding heat which others couldn't before the blood magic?

Thank you for allowing me to clarify, I agree, there a many things that get carried away (*ahem ice dragons *cough) and crazy theories that need to be stopped.

The way I see it, Drogo's funeral pyre was the one occasion where she didn't suffer the injuries one would expect from the fire, what GRRM says confirms this.

What happened with Drogon in the fighting pit was quite different, and she still burnt her hands.

Is it possible that what happened at the pyre happens again? I suppose it is, but I'd say unlikely given what GRRM has said.

[ragcage]

I was wondering what the highest qualitey hardcover versions of the books are (which are still payaable), because I wish to start reading the series, and I want to have good books on my shelfs, not paperbacks.

I was thinking about buying this version: http://www.bookdepository.com/Game-Thrones-George-Martin/9780007459483. It sure has a nice cover but that;s about all the info I can find, does anybody know if this version has a sewn binding binding, and if not, which one has?

Thanks.

[kissdbyfire]

I was wondering what the highest qualitey hardcover versions of the books are (which are still payaable), because I wish to start reading the series, and I want to have good books on my shelfs, not paperbacks.

I was thinking about buying this version: http://www.bookdepository.com/Game-Thrones-George-Martin/9780007459483. It sure has a nice cover but that;s about all the info I can find, does anybody know if this version has a sewn binding binding, and if not, which one has?

Thanks.

I have those but I've never checked the binding. They're still in their amazon box, I don't want them to get dusty! But I'll check the binding and I'll get back to you. :P

[rmholt]

what? From where do we know the baby didn't come out deformed?

We dont know but that is more magic by orders of magnitude than we have seen up to now. Plus Jorah had motive to kill the baby. This is before he stopped spying on her and the order to kill the baby had come down. Plus we never see it.

Marie

[rmholt]

The way I see it, Drogo's funeral pyre was the one occasion where she didn't suffer the injuries one would expect from the fire, what GRRM says confirms this.

What happened with Drogon in the fighting pit was quite different, and she still burnt her hands.

Is it possible that what happened at the pyre happens again? I suppose it is, but I'd say unlikely given what GRRM has said.

She knew if she ran she would be crisped. She ducked under his flames. The only issue I have is with the burned hands. With the boar spear iron tip melting the wooden shaft could easily have been hot enough to give 3rd degree burns. However, I dont think GRRM was writing a book on materials.

[rmholt]

you don't suspect a Frey is capable of treachery? :bs:

I dont suspect Big Walder. He has honor and he seems to have been fond of his weasely cousin. Many of the Freys appear to be decent.

[rmholt]

then allow me to clarify, it would seem that even a dragon's breath might be a little hotter than sitting the middle of a funeral pyre, though I doubt we can ever know. I do not think (never thought) Dany was 100% fire proof, rather her "unique gift" is to endure fire/heat where others couldn't...or heal from burns/heat related injuries quickly.

It seems like her burns are healing extremely fast compared to other people, but again, this can not be known for sure, unless someone comments later on or about her having scars from burns, or there being a discussion about how she is healed or scar free.

*edited for grammar

But aren't there mentions of her withstanding heat which others couldn't before the blood magic?

Thank you for allowing me to clarify, I agree, there a many things that get carried away (*ahem ice dragons *cough) and crazy theories that need to be stopped.

When she could feel heat from the dragon eggs and other couldnt, and when she withstood flame to hatch the dragons, my personal theory is that the dragons gave her this superpower - but she doesnt have it now, and she doesnt think she has it.

The hand burns by description are superficial 2nd degree (blisters) so would heal quick.

I do know how to get Apple Martini to pop up and flame whenever desired.

[rmholt]

Have you read where it clearly describes her ducking the flames and not taking them head on? Her hair caught fire but the rest of her didn't, evidenced by her unburned and unsinged clothing. She also sustained burns on her hands. She's not fire-proof. This madness needs to stop, seriously.

I wonder if she has "hot buttons" :)

[Teal'c]

I wonder if she has "hot buttons" :)

Targaryens can't burn.

Targaryens can't get sick.

All Targaryens are silver haired with purple eyes.

Ned and Wylla are Jon's parents.

[kissdbyfire]

She knew if she ran she would be crisped. She ducked under his flames. The only issue I have is with the burned hands. With the boar spear iron tip melting the wooden shaft could easily have been hot enough to give 3rd degree burns. However, I dont think GRRM was writing a book on materials.

Yes, I agree. I don't think science as we know it applies in a fantasy universe. After all we have things like fraternal twins that are described as being identical.

[HannibalStark]

We dont know but that is more magic by orders of magnitude than we have seen up to now. Plus Jorah had motive to kill the baby. This is before he stopped spying on her and the order to kill the baby had come down. Plus we never see it.

Marie

didn't he already have his royal pardon? which is all he needed...and in the end, he is or seems to me to be a man of honor, I do not at all see Mormont has even having a motive to kill the baby at this point, if ever. I'm not sure Dany is actually barren as she is told she will be able to have kids when EAST/WEST yadda yadda...but this whole plot that he baby was normal and killed in cold blood seems way crazy. It seems there were more than a couple people who could/would have said, pssst., hey Khalessi, Mormont and the witch actually killed your normal healthy baby.. It seems there were a few people who saw the abomination.

plus it seems to make sense (at least in my bran :frown5: ) that the baby died and came out like we were told it did.

[rmholt]

didn't he already have his royal pardon? which is all he needed...and in the end, he is or seems to me to be a man of honor, I do not at all see Mormont has even having a motive to kill the baby at this point, if ever. I'm not sure Dany is actually barren as she is told she will be able to have kids when EAST/WEST yadda yadda...but this whole plot that he baby was normal and killed in cold blood seems way crazy. It seems there were more than a couple people who could/would have said, pssst., hey Khalessi, Mormont and the witch actually killed your normal healthy baby.. It seems there were a few people who saw the abomination.

plus it seems to make sense (at least in my bran :frown5: ) that the baby died and came out like we were told it did.

I'll have to review the whole thing agains. I dont recall any other witnesses besides Jorah and Mirri. Jorah did not have his pardon - he still doesnt have it as far as I know. Mormont was the Lannister tool, the only one. So if an order went out to have her or her baby killed, he would be the agent. I dont think the Sorrowful Man came from an order from Westeros. They were thinking of Faceless Men and never mentioned Sorrowful Men. If they had Jorah they probably didnt think they needed to spend the money on anyone else. They had Jorah until some point in Qarth.

Another possibility is that Mirri magicked Jorah into thinking the baby was deformed or that Mirri killed the baby and Dany made an erroneous assumption that Jorah did it.

As to a reason not to believe what we are told I refer you to, well, a lot.

[WightWolf]

Well...Important events directly related to ASOIF? Not that many yet. Hopefully there will be more to come, such as more information about Bloodraven or the importance of the she-wolves (which is likely to be discussed in the next installment). There are some subtleties though. For example, in the Mystery Knight, did you notice a certain 4-year old boy attending the wedding? A certain boy that may have learned weddings are a perfect place for treachery...

Edited spelling

thanks. yea, i did notice. i hate freys.

[Ghost714]

I'll have to review the whole thing agains. I dont recall any other witnesses besides Jorah and Mirri. Jorah did not have his pardon - he still doesnt have it as far as I know. Mormont was the Lannister tool, the only one. So if an order went out to have her or her baby killed, he would be the agent. I dont think the Sorrowful Man came from an order from Westeros. They were thinking of Faceless Men and never mentioned Sorrowful Men. If they had Jorah they probably didnt think they needed to spend the money on anyone else. They had Jorah until some point in Qarth.

Another possibility is that Mirri magicked Jorah into thinking the baby was deformed or that Mirri killed the baby and Dany made an erroneous assumption that Jorah did it.

As to a reason not to believe what we are told I refer you to, well, a lot.

I think your seriously confused, and you should do a reread. The Sorrowful Man was sent by the Warlocks of Qarth, and that was completely unrelated to Dany's baby, and the Iron Throne. Mormont was not a "Lannister tool", if anything he was Varys's "tool", but that's irrelevant, because Mormont would not slay a healthy baby in cold blood. By that time, Ser Jorah had already started to love Daenerys, and he is just not that kind of person. It also was not a matter of spending money, the Crown offered a Lordship to whoever killed Dany and her child, and that's why the wine seller tried to poison Dany, he wanted that Lordship. The book even said something like "assasigns are expensive, but Lordships are cheap", because they can make anyone a Lord, and just give them some old rundown Keep, or Holdfast that nobody is using.

Besides, I also always got the impression that more than Jorah and Mirri Mazz Durr saw Rhaego.

I agree that Dany might be able to have children, but it's completely ridiculous to say that Ser Jorah killed Dany's baby, and there is absolutely nothing to suggest such in the books, and everything to suggest that, that's not the case. Informing on someone, and killing their baby is totally two different things. Had Ser Jorah done this, he would never have been able to look Dany in the eyes again, much less kissed her.

When Dany asked Ser Jorah when he stopped sending reports about her to Varys, he told her he sent the last one back in Qarth. He could have lied to her, in fact it would have been much better for him had he lied, but he didn't, he told the truth. Had Ser Jorah killed Dany's baby, then he would have had no problems lying to her about the last message being sent from Qarth.

We all understand that we can't always trust what the books says, but that's only when we have reason to not believe what the books are saying. There is absolutely no reason to doubt what the book said, in this situation, and again, Ser Jorah Mormont is just not that type of person, especially when comes to Dany, and the fact that he loved her.