Could Melisandre resurrect Jon Snow?

[Visual909]

The thing is Jon is not dead in the sense we think, his soul, essence is in Ghost. Man, wolf, than man again.

Yes but for the purpose of being released from the NW his first life ended his second life is in ghost so as far as the vows are concerned it technically counts as him dying.

You know, R'Hllor is not God ... only a god that reflects certain people's beliefs and observations of the world/ universe around them (people want explanations ).. It's the magic that's real..and would be real for anyone of any religion trying to do magic ( and they would probably credit their god or gods with the results ).

So there doesn't need to be an exact replay of the Azor Ahai story. There doesn't need to be a Nissa Nissa ... But I'm sure if Jon turns out to play a heroic role in defeating the Others ( If R'Hllor is not God , there is no specific Great Other ) , then R'Hllorists will be quick to proclaim him AA and point out Ygritte as having been Nissa Nissa , if he doesn't kill some other woman by his own hand in the meantime .

the problem is Ygritte wasn't killed by Jon. She was killed by a stray arrow from someone else he just blames himself as if he killed her. And so far the only two religions we have seen tangible results magically from is the R'hllor faith and the Old Gods they may be mirrors of one another or they might be the the same god in different forms like what the House of Black and White preach we don't really know and likely never will.

As for Melisandre.. My guess is that Jon 'warged' into Ghost. I think this is why Melisandre told Jon to always keep Ghost close, and always questioned why Ghost wasn't near Jon when he wasn't.

Simply put Jon didn't think about it. He was more concerned about the giant boar and ghost picking a fight with one another and killing each other. That's why he stayed locked in the armory, but Jon would still be able to warg into him he just didn't get to have the protection of his direwolf when he needed it the most.

[bemused]

We know Jon didn't kill Ygritte. I'm just pointing out that people will twist things to suit their beliefs. ( I mean the people in the story .) If they come to suspect John is Azor Ahai , they'll find a way to see his life as fitting the prophecy.

We've seen magic worked outside of religions , but we really haven't seen that much of other religions .. With the new outlawed and out-moded orders of The Seven coming back, and at least one new Damphair POV in the next book ,we may yet see more magic attributed to other gods.

Arya is told she will learn to work glamours... but the FM don't attribute the act to TGoMF..

I think Mel's vision of Jon being man , wolf , man again is probably just a depiction of his nature as a warg.

I don't believe he's dead, and while he does have to develop his bond with Ghost, that can come in a fairly short time while he's unconscious ( even if that's only for a few days, or even hours )... Once that's established , I don't think he'll have to worry so much about Borroq's boar, because he'll have better control of Ghost , and an experienced mentor at hand in Borroq.

[Visual909]

We know Jon didn't kill Ygritte. I'm just pointing out that people will twist things to suit their beliefs. ( I mean the people in the story .) If they come to suspect John is Azor Ahai , they'll find a way to see his life as fitting the prophecy.

We've seen magic worked outside of religions , but we really haven't seen that much of other religions .. With the new outlawed and out-moded orders of The Seven coming back, and at least one new Damphair POV in the next book ,we may yet see more magic attributed to other gods.

Arya is told she will learn to work glamours... but the FM don't attribute the act to TGoMF..

I think Mel's vision of Jon being man , wolf , man again is probably just a depiction of his nature as a warg.

I don't believe he's dead, and while he does have to develop his bond with Ghost, that can come in a fairly short time while he's unconscious ( even if that's only for a few days, or even hours )... Once that's established , I don't think he'll have to worry so much about Borroq's boar, because he'll have better control of Ghost , and an experienced mentor at hand in Borroq.

I agree with you on the twisting part then. But I like to think Mel's visions are a little more literal than that given she also saw Bran and Blood Raven in the same vision, but I could be wrong. I suppose in the end all our speculation won't really mean anything till the book confirms one way or the other.

[Tuor]

GRRM once said this

I always felt like Gandalf should have stayed dead. That was such an incredible sequence in Fellowship of the Ring when he faces the Balrog on the Khazad-dûm and he falls into the gulf, and his last words are, “Fly, you fools.”

What power that had, how that grabbed me. And then he comes back as Gandalf the White, and if anything he's sort of improved. I never liked Gandalf the White as much as Gandalf the Grey, and I never liked him coming back. I think it would have been an even stronger story if Tolkien had left him dead.

Why would he bring Jon Snow back now?

[bemused]

It's not a question of GRRM bringing him back.. he hasn't killed him. ( yet )

Jon hasn't fallen into some vast chasm from which there would logically seem to be no escape. He's been stabbed 3 times that we know of. We know the first wound was superficial.We don't know the severity of the other 2...and there's the cold , the question of how many layers of leather , mail , or whatever he was wearing at the time , etc.,etc.

Even in our non-magical world , people frequently survive attacks with more wounds. It all depends on what the attacker manages to hit.

And particularly since GRRM left the narrative in the middle of a scene with so many possible variables , it's too soon to leap to the most extreme assumptions.

[darkstar16]

This may have already been brought about in this thread and probably has been in another one at the very least. So forgive me. But the way I read Jon's "death" was like the story of AA. (Quick note: I haven't read it in forever and can't remember the small details, but the main thought process is still there). There were salty tears and smoke in Jon's wounds, both mentioned in the story of AA. There was also blood on the star of a shield (maybe the red star in the sky was a red herring). IF I read this correctly and it does point to Jon being AA reborn, then for him to be reborn the most important thing to him has to die, as did AA's wife. It seems that the prologue of ADWD shows that when a warg dies his soul lives on in the animal he is warged to (also happens with Orell). So when Jon died his soul would have "warged into" Ghost. With this logic it may be that for Jon to be reborn Ghost has to die. Yes, very sad seeing that Ghost is a complete badass. Just seemed to me to be the logic that made the most sense. Please reread the chapter and rip my theory to threads. Or help prove it. Either way, if I'm right I will be both very sad and quite excited because I think it would be pretty epic and very Martin-esque.

[aryagonnakill]

This may have already been brought about in this thread and probably has been in another one at the very least. So forgive me. But the way I read Jon's "death" was like the story of AA. (Quick note: I haven't read it in forever and can't remember the small details, but the main thought process is still there). There were salty tears and smoke in Jon's wounds, both mentioned in the story of AA. There was also blood on the star of a shield (maybe the red star in the sky was a red herring). IF I read this correctly and it does point to Jon being AA reborn, then for him to be reborn the most important thing to him has to die, as did AA's wife. It seems that the prologue of ADWD shows that when a warg dies his soul lives on in the animal he is warged to (also happens with Orell). So when Jon died his soul would have "warged into" Ghost. With this logic it may be that for Jon to be reborn Ghost has to die. Yes, very sad seeing that Ghost is a complete badass. Just seemed to me to be the logic that made the most sense. Please reread the chapter and rip my theory to threads. Or help prove it. Either way, if I'm right I will be both very sad and quite excited because I think it would be pretty epic and very Martin-esque.

i've been saying that for a long time.

[DavidMx8]

i really think Melisandre will resurrect Jon Snow, but in today episode i was really sad to hear that Berric Dondarrion said that there wasn't another side (I put it white for people who haven't seen it yet) since i had the theory that during the time he is "dead", Jon Snow would have a moment with Ned Stark (and maybe Ygritte), who would tell him the truth about his mother (R + L), fullfiling the promise he made to Jon in the first book (The next time i see you i will tell you the truth about your mother).

[Black Crow]

Interesting, not seen it done that way before. Most folks round here place that kind of thing in a spoiler box

[Brian King]

I was thinking this was a strong possibility that Mel would be able to resurect John. Also if John was Un John then technically wouldnt he be free of the nights watch and able to go South? The only other option to free him of his oath would to disband the nights watch.

[MikeDC]

It's not a question of GRRM bringing him back.. he hasn't killed him. ( yet )

Jon hasn't fallen into some vast chasm from which there would logically seem to be no escape. He's been stabbed 3 times that we know of. We know the first wound was superficial.We don't know the severity of the other 2...and there's the cold , the question of how many layers of leather , mail , or whatever he was wearing at the time , etc.,etc.

Even in our non-magical world , people frequently survive attacks with more wounds. It all depends on what the attacker manages to hit.

And particularly since GRRM left the narrative in the middle of a scene with so many possible variables , it's too soon to leap to the most extreme assumptions.

The last knife was planted in his back square between the shoulder blades. I don't think there's any reasonable interpretation of that being a survivable wound.

So I guess to me, the question is where and how he comes back, because I don't see any way that he's simply and finally dead. Lots of ways it could happen, but...

[darksellsword]

I hate using deviations that have happened in the Tv show to hypothesize about what will happen in the books to come,

but Mellisandre in the show has seen how Thoros resurrected Dondarrion, is this evidence that she will resurrect

Jon in a similar way in the books and therefore the Tv show?

[~Shiera Seastar~]

I was thinking this was a strong possibility that Mel would be able to resurect John.

We can't be sure yet if she can, or if the Red Priest/ess are all able to do it (Thoros tried it before, if I'm remembering it right, but it was Beric whom he was able to resurrect), so I'm still hoping Jon isn't dead. And if Jon's dead and will be brought back to life, he won't be the same. See Lady Stoneheart? Beric also said that there were things from his past life that he scarcely remember.

Also if John was Un John then technically wouldnt he be free of the nights watch and able to go South?

If he lived after the resurrection, I guess he will stay to fulfill his oath. 'Coz if he leave, some of his brothers who desire to leave NW might follow his example: die and ask a Red Priest to resurrect them so they will be freed (coz finally, there's a loophole so no need to take their vows seriously).

The only other option to free him of his oath would to disband the nights watch.

Without the NW, Westeros is doomed. So even if Jon can be king afterwards, there won't be a kingdom to rule. But if the Wall falls, I believe Westeros will rebuild it in case the Others will return on the next long winter (unless they are all extinguished at the end).

[WildBlood]

IMO, I think Melisandre will simply heal Jon's stab wounds similar to Moqorro's healing of Victarion....with fire. Victarion is amazed that his hand is stronger than ever, even though its burned and black. I think Melisandre's fire healing will make all of Jon's wounds stronger than ever, including his previously wounded, burned hand. She did say to Jon that she was his only hope.

:agree: well said :)

[WildBlood]

We can't be sure yet if she can, or if the Red Priest/ess are all able to do it (Thoros tried it before, if I'm remembering it right, but it was Beric whom he was able to resurrect), so I'm still hoping Jon isn't dead. And if Jon's dead and will be brought back to life, he won't be the same. See Lady Stoneheart?

But Lady Stoneheart was dead floating in a river for 3 days or so.... not to mention she had a red smile from ear to ear. That is a little worse than a few stabs IMO

[darksellsword]

The only way for Jon to be released from his oath to the NW is by his death, just a few healed stab wounds wont do that.

[~Shiera Seastar~]

But Lady Stoneheart was dead floating in a river for 3 days or so.... not to mention she had a red smile from ear to ear. That is a little worse than a few stabs IMO

Technically, Beric gives his life to resurrect LS (his death pays for LS life) coz Thoros refuses to do the kiss of fire ritual. Like what I said, we can't be sure yet if all the Red Priests/Priestesses are able to do it. Maybe they are (if they learned how to do it from the Red Temple, or if R'hllor grant that ability to each of them like they believe) coz their magic are stronger now but not sure if they all have the same/equal ability/power/expertise.

[VladofWallachia]

Does anyone else think that having Melissandre and Thoros meet in the last episode points to her rezzing Jon in WOW? You know, setting up that instead of Melissandre having an internal monologue about the possibility of doing that...

Also, on a completely different topic, the line she said to Arya about how they will meet again, is it possible that Melissandre will be one of her targets as an assassin, thus creating conflict between herself and Jon, who was saved by Mel?

[A Son of Ice and Fire]

Does anyone else think that having Melissandre and Thoros meet in the last episode points to her rezzing Jon in WOW? You know, setting up that instead of Melissandre having an internal monologue about the possibility of doing that...

I definitely agree on that...

[Visual909]

Does anyone else think that having Melissandre and Thoros meet in the last episode points to her rezzing Jon in WOW? You know, setting up that instead of Melissandre having an internal monologue about the possibility of doing that...

Also, on a completely different topic, the line she said to Arya about how they will meet again, is it possible that Melissandre will be one of her targets as an assassin, thus creating conflict between herself and Jon, who was saved by Mel?

Probably the show has taken liberties in the past to explain future events or internal monologues. Although is anyone else annoyed that Mel took Gendry? I'm pretty sure it was to cut out Edric for her big spell on Rob, Joffery, and Baelon, but it kinda irked me that they did it.