Cue the controversy: German court rules against infant circumcision

[Galactus]

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/germany/120626/cologne-religious-circumcision-assault

BERLIN, Germany — The circumcision of minors for religious reasons should be considered a physical assault, according a district court ruling in the German city of Cologne.

Judges said that the procedure should be performed only when it's medically necessary,the Financial Times Deutschland reported.

Otherwise, neither the parents' rights nor the right to religious freedom can justify what constitutes bodily harm, the verdict states.

More from GlobalPost: Zimbabwe lawmakers circumcised at parliament

The judgment stemmed from the case of a four-year-old Muslim boy, Agence France Presse reported, who was taken to hospital for bleeding two days after his parents had him circumcised.

Cologne's public prosecutor brought charges against the doctor who had performed the procedure. The court originally ruled in the doctor's favor, but on appeal decided that the non-medical circumcision amounted to "serious and irreversible interference with physical integrity."

The permanent physical alteration infringes on the child's right to decide his beliefs for himself, which should take precedence over the parents' right to give their child a "visible sign" of religious affiliation, the judges said.

The ruling is expected to set a national precedent.

"This decision could not only affect future cases, but, in the best case, lead the religions concerned to change their mentality when it comes to respecting children's fundamental rights," Holm Putzke, a criminal lawyer at the University of Passau who has long argued for a ban on non-medical circumcision, told the FTD.

I eagerly await the sane, calm and rational discussion without any kind of animosity that will result from this uncontroversial subject.

[TerraPrime]

I eagerly await the sane, calm and rational discussion without any kind of animosity that will result from this uncontroversial subject.

:rofl:

Score: 7/10

[deleted01]

Before I say anything I would like some facts, so can anyone fill me in on why boys are circumcised for religious reasons? Is it an absolute necessity for certain religions?

Also, gentlemen, dare I ask how much of a difference it makes? :blushing:

[TerraPrime]

Circumcision is a required rite for the Jewish faith (the rite of brit milah). Boys are to be circumcised on the 8th day of their birth as part of being recognized as the Chosen People.

See wiki entry here.

And you're maybe too new for the board, but the topic of male circumcision typically ends in flame wars here. Yes, it has occurred enough times to warrant the use of "typically."

[deleted01]

Oh dear, thanks for the warning (and the info), I'll stay out of it :D

[Sci-2]

Foreskin, finally thou are avenged.

eta: though -> thou

[Howdyphillip]

I just went through a lengthy debate on the medical reasons for circumcision. I am 100% for it. I will start the fireworks by saying that those that consider the procedure to be a mutilation to a child are vastly over reacting. Then again, those who say that all children absolutely have to have the procedure are acting hyper sensitively as well.

I do however believe that it is a parental choice that has no need of second guessing. It just saddens me that the choice is being stripped away from people now due to health care cost. I know that there are different thoughts about this. I also think that the results of not allowing this procedure may actually be more of a burden for a health care system than if it was allowed.

.

[peterbound]

Goddamn, not this again.

[peterbound]

Before I say anything I would like some facts, so can anyone fill me in on why boys are circumcised for religious reasons? Is it an absolute necessity for certain religions?

How the fuck do you not know this?

[peterbound]

And you're maybe too new for the board, but the topic of male circumcision typically ends in flame wars here. Yes, it has occurred enough times to warrant the use of "typically."

I think you mean "guaranteed".

[Seli]

I can follow the reasoning of the court, and I do agree with it.

There are some other issues of course...

[deleted01]

How the fuck do you not know this?

Because I'm not religious, I'm not a man, and I'm not afraid to ask about things I'm not fully aware of :)

[Sci-2]

I also think that the results of not allowing this procedure may actually be more of a burden for a health care system than if it was allowed.

?

[Seli]

Because I'm not religious, I'm not a man, and I'm not afraid to ask about things I'm not fully aware of :)

The latter is a good characteristic,

As mentioned circumcision (at 8 days old) is a part of the jewish religion. Islam has a tradition as well, as do have other cultures.

And finally there is the US tradition, which has its own origins and its own set of reasons for the procedure.

[Seli]

?

non-trained cutters?

problems from people that do not know how to clean?

STD's?

[peterbound]

The latter is a good characteristic,

As mentioned circumcision (at 8 days old) is a part of the jewish religion. Islam has a tradition as well, as do have other cultures.

And finally there is the US tradition, which has its own origins and its own set of reasons for the procedure.

I actually ran into this in the UK. When I was playing rugby over there, the guys on the team didn't know if they should invite me to the christmas party, because they thought i was Jewish, as I am circumcised. I'm not, I'm just american, and those of my generation got it done. I chuckled, and then got a little nervous about them staring at my dick so much.

[Sci-2]

problems from people that do not know how to clean?

STD's?

?

[Robin Of House Hill]

I'm going to stay neutral, but I'm laughing because I'm re-reading ASoIaF and just got through the part with Nimble Dick and realize I don't know which version he was.

[Res ipsa loquitur]

Male circumcision incontrovertibly offers health benefits: much lower rates of STDs, both for the man and for his female partner (dont know if anyones done the study if partners of gay circumcised men have lower rates of STDs but I would bet they do as well). Circumsised men rarely get penile cancers and have far lower rates of balanitis (infections of the penis, usually foreskin area).

It is a medical procedure, even as it has religious basis; I am betting that in the sunrise of human history, people saw that more men without foreskins lived than those with them, and thats why and how it became entrenched into Judeo and Muslim faiths. And the GOVT should let parents choose...the state should not dictate that in this instance as the procedure is in no way abuse.

All surgeries have risks, circumcision is no different. Horror stories in the news not withstanding, male circumcisions risks done by a well trained practitioner are slight.

[Ormond]

?

Research seems to show that in Africa uncircumcised men are at a higher risk for contracting HIV than circumcised men are.

Whether this holds up in Europe and North America is much more debatable, because many think that isn't a factor in places where it's easier to maintain personal cleanliness.

And this is NOT because Africans "don't know how to clean." It's because many poor Africans live in situations where they do not have easy access to running water and all the water a household uses has to be carried a long distance in buckets from wells. I dare say that most Americans and Europeans would be much less fastidious about bathing if they had to carry all the water used for the bath a couple of miles before they took one.