Syrio / Jaqen theory

[A wilding]

It is a point, but

- They were not sitting in a completely unsecured room, but rather chained up to a wagon.

- Yoren had been going to leave earlier, but was told to wait because Ned was going to take the Black and was to go with him.

[Black Wolf Smith]

It is a point, but

- They were not sitting in a completely unsecured room, but rather chained up to a wagon.

- Yoren had been going to leave earlier, but was told to wait because Ned was going to take the Black and was to go with him.

Ding, Ding we have a winner!!! winner winner chicken dinner!!!

[valyrian_steel]

I see Syrio as protecting Arya more, since he did 'die' so she could get away and if Jaqen was Syrio he would have made more of an effort to getting her out of Harrenhal without Arya asking and taking her straight to Winterfell (of course they would not know of Theon or the burining of Winterfell yet) or to her brother and mother.

The mistake in reasoning people make is that Syrio Forel defines the character. If this was a faceless man then he is no one. Syrio Forel would be just as much a character he was playing as Jaqen H'gar. Nothing u think u know about either character applies here.

There is no proof that Syrio either died or survived. If he died then obviously he isnt H'gar, but if he was captured instead of killed he becomes an excellent possibility. Syrio's line about telling death "not today" names him as a survivor. His fight against Trant and the red cloaks wasnt to win, simply to allow Arya to escape. Trant wasnt sent there to kill the dancing master. After Arya's escaped, mayhaps Syrio fled as well. While Trant plate is great against wooden swords it certainly wouldnt be great for a chase. Syrio's then gets captured attempting to escape the Tower of the Hand and gets tossed in the black cells. Jeyne Poole also survived so it wasnt like they killed everyone in the Stark household. If Syrio is in the black cells, it makes sense that Yoren would take him and anyone else there for the wall. As to Jaqen not helping Arya more, and he did know who she was btw, it's because he isnt nice Syrio. He's a FM who kills for a living. He obviously has some degree of honor as he helped Arya escape and wanted to repay her freeing them but that doesnt make him a good guy.

[Dr. Pepper]

The mistake in reasoning people make is that Syrio Forel defines the character. If this was a faceless man then he is no one. Syrio Forel would be just as much a character he was playing as Jaqen H'gar. Nothing u think u know about either character applies here.

There is no proof that Syrio either died or survived. If he died then obviously he isnt H'gar, but if he was captured instead of killed he becomes an excellent possibility. Syrio's line about telling death "not today" names him as a survivor. His fight against Trant and the red cloaks wasnt to win, simply to allow Arya to escape. Trant wasnt sent there to kill the dancing master. After Arya's escaped, mayhaps Syrio fled as well. While Trant plate is great against wooden swords it certainly wouldnt be great for a chase. Syrio's then gets captured attempting to escape the Tower of the Hand and gets tossed in the black cells. Jeyne Poole also survived so it wasnt like they killed everyone in the Stark household. If Syrio is in the black cells, it makes sense that Yoren would take him and anyone else there for the wall. As to Jaqen not helping Arya more, and he did know who she was btw, it's because he isnt nice Syrio. He's a FM who kills for a living. He obviously has some degree of honor as he helped Arya escape and wanted to repay her freeing them but that doesnt make him a good guy.

The "What do we say to Death? Not today" thing only happened in the show. Syrio never said anything close to that in the books. The show is not the books.

Jeyne Poole wasn't killed because she was with Sansa and Sansa was ordered not to be killed. When Cersei found out Jeyne was there, she had her removed and Littlefinger took her and then obviously trained her. Everyone else in the household was put to death, including the septa. It's highly unlikely that Trant would run into Syrio and think to himself, "Hmm, we didn't have orders to kill a man named Syrio so I guess I'll just let him flee and not tell anyone about it."

The evidence that Syrio is still alive is shady at best and only relies on the fact that Arya did not see his dead body though it ignores the fact that she heard them fighting when she fled.

[Mulled Wino]

I wish people would AT LEAST stop with the "they weren't sen to kill Syrio just capture Arya

" argument. Its just horrible.

[Mulled Wino]

Not to mention syrio had just killed lannister guards.

[Artos Stark]

Here is how it went down Lol

Cersei: KILL ALL THE TRAITOR'S MEN!!!!!!

(Killing ensues of every man in employ of house Stark and everyone loyal to them including their septa, steward, etc.)

Later.....

Trant: Your Grace, we found this man with Ned's daughter. He attacked your men while she escaped, he is good with a sword and took out a few of your men. But for some odd reason that I cannot explain, I did not kill him after I disarmed him even though we were told to kill all the men in Stark's employ.

Cersei: I can see why you didn't kill him, something is special about this one. SEND HIM TO THE DUNGEONS!!!!!

[Artos Stark]

Don't you guys find it funny that no one ever asked where he went. If he is truely the only surviving Stark sword that was kept alive and the man who helped Arya escape then why on Earth does no one inquire about how whereabouts when wondering where the Arya disappeared to? How come no one would suspect this mysteryous escapee who helped the other Stark girl escape when Sansa disappeared?

None of it makes sense LOL

[Valyarian rose]

It has been a while since I last touched my game of thrones, but was wondering yesterday. Is a insane idea or there's a small chance that Jaqen H'ghar and Syrio Forel are the same person? I mean... GRRM didn't made clear that Syrio died anyway... =/

Don't know if this was already talked in some point, sory if I missed. :)

Hmm this is something I really need to mull over. I really don't know what my opinion on this topic is. I mean, Syrio was a water dancer from Braavos... and Jaqen is Lorathi, but he's connected to the Faceless Men... Where did Jaqen go after he parted ways with Arya? I'm on book 4, and I did read the part where Jaqen (with his new face) kills someone in one of the earlier chapters. He's not mentioned by name, but the text describes his new face.

[Horza]

Hmm this is something I really need to mull over. I really don't know what my opinion on this topic is. I mean, Syrio was a water dancer from Braavos... and Jaqen is Lorathi, but he's connected to the Faceless Men... Where did Jaqen go after he parted ways with Arya? I'm on book 4, and I did read the part where Jaqen (with his new face) kills someone in one of the earlier chapters. He's not mentioned by name, but the text describes his new face.

You'll have your answer by the end of that book.

[CoolGirlsMurderFriend]

It is a point, but

- They were not sitting in a completely unsecured room, but rather chained up to a wagon.

- Yoren had been going to leave earlier, but was told to wait because Ned was going to take the Black and was to go with him.

Oh so he had them chained in a wagon, outside in the middle of the biggest city in Westeros? Yeah that makes sense...

Now think how ridiculous that would sound when told to an innkeeper.

Also, there's nothing in the text that supports you saying he was told that Ned would be taking the black after he had already pulled the prisoners out. All he said was that he was told by the man who paid him to take Gendry. No time frame was given and no other information aside from him being almost ready to go.

Now if I were a man used to dealing with murderers and I found 3 that I wasn't comfortable with ever being unchained, which would be rare indeed, then I would probably get them on the way out the door. The day I was leaving the city. A day, a week, a month, it doesn't matter how long before he escaped. We just know that it was AFTER Ned was thrown into the black cells and they decided they would let him take the black.

Now you tell me how much time it takes to escape from a castle with hundreds of hidden passages. *hint* every other character has found there way outside the city or wherever they wanted to be within hours.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I like most people may remember things more on the TV side of things but I don't think that syrio would have been thought to be a "Stark" man. They didn't kill the stable hands did they? They said that her father had sent them.

They (everybody) thought he was teaching Arya to dance. If he had let her go he may have lived. He knew something was wrong and protected her, there were 4 or 5 still alive when she ran away and he had a wooden sword. No matter how great a swords man he was thats really bad odds. And he had hurt them already with that wooden sword.

And didn't the leader of the group come back and make a report? I would think that either they all died or Syrio died. So there fore....Syrio died.

[Lummel]

Perhaps you would Coolgirl'smurderfriend, but on the otherhand once The Ned has been arrested and thrown into the black cells for treason as part of a coup no one is going to release any prisoners under his authority. Although you don't like it it is clear that the black cells three were released to Yoren before the coup started.

[CoolGirlsMurderFriend]

Perhaps you would Coolgirl'smurderfriend, but on the otherhand once The Ned has been arrested and thrown into the black cells for treason as part of a coup no one is going to release any prisoners under his authority. Although you don't like it it is clear that the black cells three were released to Yoren before the coup started.

let's go back to my earlier post. What reason did anyone in KL have not to turn over the prisoners to the watch? They don't care and they didn't even when Alliser was sent with the wights hands. To them they are a nuissance, not possible conspirators until Stannis decides to go north. Especially considering the fact that he took no part in Tyrion's capture and presumably answered the Lannister's questions about it.

It is not clear, you choose that because it benefits your argument. Show me where in the text it says the 3 prisoners were released the day Ned signed the order. You can't. Show me where it says they were released before Ned was arrested, you can't do that either. All the text says is, and I repeat, the same man who paid Yoren to take Gendry (likely Varys, who was running the black cells) told him to wait for Ned.

Yoren was in KL for 2-3 months, it's ridiculous to assume he had the 3 most dangerous criminals in the dungeons locked up in a room in an inn for that amount of time.

I'm not getting on either side of the argument, but I won't sit here and listen to nonsense like that lol.

[CoolGirlsMurderFriend]

I like most people may remember things more on the TV side of things but I don't think that syrio would have been thought to be a "Stark" man. They didn't kill the stable hands did they? They said that her father had sent them.

They (everybody) thought he was teaching Arya to dance. If he had let her go he may have lived. He knew something was wrong and protected her, there were 4 or 5 still alive when she ran away and he had a wooden sword. No matter how great a swords man he was thats really bad odds. And he had hurt them already with that wooden sword.

And didn't the leader of the group come back and make a report? I would think that either they all died or Syrio died. So there fore....Syrio died.

There were bodies all over the stables, that's where Arya killed the fat boy.

In the book Syrio killed 2 or 3 with the single blows from the stick and the leader was Meryn Trant, a member of the Kingsguard. Personally, I wouldn't want to admit I got my ass kicked by a dude with a stick :P He'd never live that down. Oh and he also has no problem slapping little girls around, so he's not exactly a stand up guy.

[CoolGirlsMurderFriend]

dbl post.

[Artos Stark]

I like most people may remember things more on the TV side of things but I don't think that syrio would have been thought to be a "Stark" man. They didn't kill the stable hands did they? They said that her father had sent them.

They (everybody) thought he was teaching Arya to dance. If he had let her go he may have lived. He knew something was wrong and protected her, there were 4 or 5 still alive when she ran away and he had a wooden sword. No matter how great a swords man he was thats really bad odds. And he had hurt them already with that wooden sword.

And didn't the leader of the group come back and make a report? I would think that either they all died or Syrio died. So there fore....Syrio died.

I'm speaking of the books. Ned had hired Syrio to be part of his household, he was going to take the girls back to Winterfell and serve there, I'm not sure exactly in what capacity but he could have been a guard for the kids.

I agree with the second part. At that point there is no chance they take him alive, especially after he attacked them. He was in the Stark employ and engaged Lannister men. Had he escaped there would have been a report filed or someone (Cersei) would think to him when Sansa disappeared as well.

[Errant Bard]

"Here's something you don't know. It wasn't supposed to happen like it did. I was set to leave, wagons bought and loaded, and a man comes with a boy for me, and a purse of coin, and a message, never mind who it's from. Lord Eddard's to take the black, he says to me, wait, he'll be going with you. Why d'you think I was there? Only something went queer."

[Artos Stark]

There were bodies all over the stables, that's where Arya killed the fat boy.

In the book Syrio killed 2 or 3 with the single blows from the stick and the leader was Meryn Trant, a member of the Kingsguard. Personally, I wouldn't want to admit I got my ass kicked by a dude with a stick :P He'd never live that down. Oh and he also has no problem slapping little girls around, so he's not exactly a stand up guy.

Trant didn't get his ass kicked by a dude with a stick, the Lannister men did. Trant disarmed him quite easily actually and was sizing him up for a death blow when we last saw Syrio.

[CoolGirlsMurderFriend]

Trant didn't get his ass kicked by a dude with a stick, the Lannister men did. Trant disarmed him quite easily actually and was sizing him up for a death blow when we last saw Syrio.

Trant broke the stick and the PoV cut away. That was the last that was ever heard of Syrio. If you guys are going to argue forever about this subject, do it using facts not assumptions.

Also, note the fact that I wrote IF.

If is a qualifier.