StannisBamfatheon Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hahah it was more a general curiosity, im notta harry potter superfan or anything. But tons of people die in harry potter though as a kid growing up and reading them(and having not read asoiaf). I thought she was the first author to mass murder her characters. How wrong I was.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerStinger Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 They got married! MARRIED! It wasn't since 19th century that a novel ended with people getting married.Harry Potter should've ended this way:Harry pokes his wand into Voldemort's eye, shouts "crucio!" And then turns to Neville: "Neville, the true chosen one whom Dombeldor protected by pretending to protect me! I'm the last Horcrux, destroy me with the Dark Lord, as I hold him!" Neville kills them both with Avacadabra. The. End.What I mean is, the ending must not be a forced happy ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Every Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Do you think Bittersweet could also refer to who is left alive, rather than who is left dead?There are several characters who we, as readers, severely and almost uniformly antagonize with, (Gregor, Freys, etc.)Do you think Bittersweet could mean leaving such characters alive as well?Yes, unquestionably. The ship sinks, but the rats always survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerStinger Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hahah it was more a general curiosity, im notta harry potter superfan or anything. But tons of people die in harry potter though as a kid growing up and reading them(and having not read asoiaf). I thought she was the first author to mass murder her characters. How wrong I was....That's actually I think the way she injected false sense of gravity to novels. The main (annoying) characters like Harry, Ron, and Hermione had a thick plot armor protecting them, while supporting (great) characters were killed randomly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hah are we risking the wrath of the moderators by derailing this thread into potter country? Perhaps we should flea to mugglenet.com or something stinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Since the books kare on the bitter side, I imagine the sweet would be some of the characters surviving. I am also pretty sure that some of the current heroes will be viewed as villains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerStinger Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hah are we risking the wrath of the moderators by derailing this thread into potter country? Perhaps we should flea to mugglenet.com or something stingerI apologize, I couldnt help it. :blushing: :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hah its all good i was just making a joke, ive never really frequented potter forums, waaaay too much bizarre draco malfoy fan fiction. But your good people stinger you won me over with that silent hill av. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well gang, I actually remember a specific interview where grrm is flattered with his american Tolkien moniker and talks about how hes a huge lotr fan. He added that hes also a big fan of the scouring of the shire. Which for those of you who dont know was at the very end of return of the king and has saruman coming to the shire to cause trouble and generally be a dick. It is very bittersweet cause Sauron is defeated yet here comes saruman to the happiest place in middle earth and totally untouched by the war of the ring and starts harassing the hobbits. So i would expect at the end of asoiaf for atleast some of the evil/unloved characters to live on.Since the books kare on the bitter side, I imagine the sweet would be some of the characters surviving. I am also pretty sure that some of the current heroes will be viewed as villains.If LOTR is anything to go by, there should be quite a few people surviving to the end and at least some semblance of calm and maybe even a little bit of happiness. LOTR's bittersweet nature is more about the sense of loss when the elves are leaving the shores of Middle Earth and how everything is inevitably changing, that the people lost will never come back, etc.Some stuff about the LOTR ending and whether it can be considered "happy" or not.I copied the first couple lines from Lyana Stark's post that she linked to. It's worth a read as I believe her thoughts her give some real insight as to how the story will end.Let me just say here that "bittersweet" does not mean "dismal" :) I think GRRM considers LOTR "bittersweet", and it is, because there is a great sense of loss and that what has been can never be recovered or really replaced. Yet it has a lot of resolutions all the same and even some (slightly dodgy) romance.I agree with this assessment, it will not be as doom and gloom as many believe it will be even though Martin, at time, makes us feel as if we are reading a rather nihilist work. If we look at the Stark children, they have been living through the bitter almost since the start of the series with the loss of their parents, death of their older brother, being held hostage, forced marriages, witnessing torture, loss of wolves, loss of home, and more. It's the same thing with the Lannister family as well. Jaime has lost the two things that have defined his life- his sword hand and his sister. Tyrion is on the run, believed to be a kingslayer and kinslayer. It's been brutal and harsh since the beginning.If we follow the LoTR model, I think the sense of loss will always be there, no matter the ending. If the Starks all return to WF, it will not be the home that they remember and their childhood will still have been ripped away from them. It's very similar to what happened to the Shire.The bad guys are slowly meeting their end even if it isn't via some moment of vengeance that we as readers will find exciting. After five books, Joff, Tywin, Vargo, Gregor, and many of the bloody mummers are dead. We've got theories on how the Boltons will meet their end, Cersei has been brought low through the WoS and the Freys are being killed off.I see quite a bit of concern that characters will get HEA but I don't think that is possible at this stage, every character has been damaged from events in the books and those scars will remain. I'd say that even if some characters end up marrying and falling in love too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Notch Balanter Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 In defence of harry potter and jk rowling it is a completely different genre to asoiaf its generally directed at a younger audience especially for the first couple of books and rowling aged up her target audience in que with the ageing up of the original audience for example book 3 is darker then book 1 and book 5 is certainly alot more darker then book 3 whereas in asoiaf the books are all probably as dark as each other . By the time the major plotlines were being wrapped up it was a necessity for some characters to die eg voldemort bellatrik snape sirius and dumbledore just as in asoiaf it was a necessity to kill off characters like ned robb joffrey and tywin. This does not mean that there has to be a mass destruction of characters we love allthough a bittersweet element is still seen with tonks and lupin dying and teddy surviving to be partially raised by harry its what should have happened with harry and sirius. I also believe it was a necessity for harry to survive and marry ginny because it was the sort of storeyline which required the good guy winning and getting the girl something which is not needed in asoiaf. In terms of ron and hermoinie surviving aswell i guess it wasn't essential for rowling to kill one of them off and maybe she did it for the fans instead she kills off the likes of fred weasley and colin creevy to show that its not always a clear win for the good guys. In asoiaf i believe it is essential for george to kill off a few of the major heroines eg Dany Jon Arya Sansa aswell as some of the lower key heroines eg Davos Wyman Manderley Brienne or even Greyer characters like Theon and Sandor.sorry for all the HP reference mods please don't move us i was only protecting another literary love of mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMary Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I think bittersweet probably will mean that there is peace and hope for a better future, but the civil war and the Other-apocalypse have left Westeros in ruins. For me, bittersweet will mean that the remaining Stark children + Jon are alive and all or some are reunited at the end, even if it's to bury the dead and try to rebuild Winterfell from the ruins.I think the Thing that so many people are fighting over - the Iron Throne - will be moot when the story ends because the remaining people will need to rebuild what's left of their homelands. If anything remains of the united Seven Kingdoms, maybe there will be some kind of counsel of the great Lords - a sort of parliament, to share power instead of an absolute monarch. It doesn't fix all the problems that will befall Westeros, but it would be a better system for the future once everything has been restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannes Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I've always taken GRRM's bittersweet ending to mean something more like the ending of the LOTR- The good guys win, but Frodo can't heal and has to leave Middle Earth behind. Gandalf's labors are done, so he leaves Middle Earth, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melpomene Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Bittersweet....ah, the possibilities. I get bummed out just thinking about the end of the series altogether! I guess bittersweet to me would be one of the main characters in very old age, the last one of the generation, reminiscing about the past and noting about the present day (Then again, for some reason this would feel more of a downer than anything)Or maybe another main character wins the throne, but never wanted it in the first place. A forum member mentioned sometime ago of Gendry winning the iron throne - a good guy, would do a good job, but it is a job that he didn't really want, and instead of following his true passion he is made to do 100 other duties, and for whatever reason is unable to be with Arya (Assuming romance aspires). That is sort of an example of bittersweet.I would guess that all magic/mystical creatures would disapear forever, but that would sneak a bit too much into Tolkien territory too. I don't know if I can see GRRM going that sort of route?Anyhow, I guess we shall see. At least it won't happen for awhile, ha ha ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic 8 Ball Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Who's the POV who says that?A giant named Macumbah, Hodor lives in his eye, while staring into a snow globe where the entire series transpired within his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseHB Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I think ASOIAF we will discover that Snape is really good. He was in love with Lyanna, but Lyanna loved James Potter, which ended up with Lyanna giving birth to Jon Snow the chosen one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenJosh Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I think the series will end with Dany dying heirless but as the mother of slaves her last act is to declare that an elected slave will inherit the throne. The nobility of course won't accept this, but Danys' slave army and the entire peasentry of Westeros rises up against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scurvy Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Connington will claim Bittersteel and kill Sweets with it after she returns as part of Dany's army of freedmen. BitterSweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServantOnIce Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I would be furious if there's absolutely no closure...there's too many plotlines and mysteries I need resolved :(Please, I really would be mad if it ends in the middle of conflict.I think some ways that GRRM says in the tile, "A song of Ice and Fire" and we have to think about a medieval song. Some times they end happy, sometimes they end sad, sometimes things make sense, sometimes things don't.GRRM has talked and written about the mystery of life . .. IF (and I mean "IF" he's old and wants to do other stuff in his time left) he finishes this series it will NOT have every single mystery, issue or theme resolved, some character arcs will be unresolved . . . that is just life and sometimes that is just as "song." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServantOnIce Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 My idea if GRRM finishes the series .. . . I Have no idea . . heck the way things are going Bronze Yohn Royce may inherit the throne!! or Samwell Tarly!!Patchface is the Great Other, it is known . . This we know, Oh, oh, Oh, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Killdragon Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 It's a clue....Bittersteel is alive!And he's bringing sweets..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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