From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa VII

[brashcandy]

Thanks Rapsie and Mladen :)

Rapsie, that's an interesting thought on Jaime; I think it would be a fitting end for him.

[1234567]

It would be a very round arc: the phrase that damned him, then saves him (well soul at least).

[brashcandy]

It would be a very round arc: the phrase that damned him, then saves him (well soul at least).

Yes :)

I think both Jaime and Brienne appear marked for death, tbh. Lately, I've been thinking that these two will be the ones to facilitate the reunion between Sansa and Sandor, but I don't see them surviving or finding happiness together.

[Kittykatknits]

It would be a very round arc: the phrase that damned him, then saves him (well soul at least).

Yes :)

I think both Jaime and Brienne appear marked for death, tbh. Lately, I've been thinking that these two will be the ones to facilitate the reunion between Sansa and Sandor, but I don't see them surviving or finding happiness together.

I think they are going to take her to the QI personally.

I found a quote from Jaime recently that I thought might provide a good hint on his fate. I was scanning through AFFC trying to find it again but don't remember where I read it. Anyways, he thinks to himself that he couldn't hurt Cersei as long as Tommen is alive because he had already lost so much. That's just a paraphrase and not an exact quote. But, I thought it might give us a hint on what leads Jaime to kill Cersei.

And brashcandy - congratulations on 5000 posts. Your request for a Leave of Absence has been formally denied. I apologize in advance for any inconvenience this may cause.

[1234567]

Indeed throughout AFFC Jaime utters several phrases that seem to be the literary equivilant to "I'll be right back".

Also I agree with the above aforementioned denial of absence. :)

[Mladen]

When we talk about Jaime, I always thought that he`ll somehow save Dany or Aegon and therefore "pay the debt" he made by killing Mad King...As for his quest for Sansa, I think he`ll redeem himself for throwing Bran...

[Mladen]

When we talk about Jaime, I always thought that he`ll somehow save Dany or Aegon and therefore "pay the debt" he made by killing Mad King...As for his quest for Sansa, I think he`ll redeem himself for throwing Bran...That will be his payment to the Starks

I quoted myself. What an idiot... :blushing:

[Lyanna Stark]

Congrats Brash! May you swiftly gain another 5000 posts of awesomeness. :cheers:

I think they are going to take her to the QI personally.

I found a quote from Jaime recently that I thought might provide a good hint on his fate. I was scanning through AFFC trying to find it again but don't remember where I read it. Anyways, he thinks to himself that he couldn't hurt Cersei as long as Tommen is alive because he had already lost so much. That's just a paraphrase and not an exact quite. But, I thought it might give us a hint on what leads Jaime to kill Cersei.

I think this is in his conversation with Ilyn Payne when Payne suggests he cut Cersei's throat, or at least kill her, and Jaime says he could not do that to Tommen as he has lost too much already and he can't take away his mother. Ouch, that makes me fear for poor Tommen BeetHater, he seems like such a sweet kid. :(

Regarding Jaime's death, I am not so sure. It seems Jaime has a purpose in the novels that has of yet to be revealed, and I wonder if it isn't tied to Aerys, which means it is pointing towards Jon Snow/Dany since they are the last living Targaryens. Especially how Rhaegar comes out in Jaime's dream and accuses him of not taking care of his children I think is rather telling. Looking at the "dead" major POVs, Cat and Ned, they both had foreshadowing regarding that, and their thoughts/dreams/foreshadowing was mostly centred on the past, but Jaime has some that seem to point towards the future, like the dream scene in Casterly Rock with Tywin, Joffrey, Cersei and Brienne. (Tommen wasn't dead there yet!!!).

I also hope that Jaime's, Brienne's and Sandor's arcs will tie in with Sansa's at some point, since they revolve around her to some degree or other.

[brashcandy]

Congrats Brash! May you swiftly gain another 5000 posts of awesomeness. :cheers:

And brashcandy - congratulations on 5000 posts. Your request for a Leave of Absence has been formally denied. I apologize in advance for any inconvenience this may cause.

Also I agree with the above aforementioned denial of absence. :)

Thank you, thank you my dears :) Having friends like you makes the experience much more enjoyable.

With regard to what Kittykatknits said about taking her to the QI, I think Sansa might end up meeting them there. I'm still holding on to the "SR ailing needs medical attention Mya recommends healer on the Isle" theory :) Plus the info we got about women staying there on the Isle seems like a big hint to me.

[Lyanna Stark]

With regard to what Kittykatknits said about taking her to the QI, I think Sansa might end up meeting them there. I'm still holding on to the "SR ailing needs medical attention Mya recommends healer on the Isle" theory :) Plus the info we got about women staying there on the Isle seems like a big hint to me.

Or someone gets knocked up (not Sansa, Myranda perhaps?) and needs to go there, but I still vote for Sweetrobin, since I think he will be Sansa's "test", due to him being such a horrible, bratty thing and how LF has set him up to die so LF, Sansa and Harry can advance. I just wonder if the marriage to Tyrion will need to be thrown out in the meantime as well (and whether my theory on Tysha will prove true!).

Tysha and Tapestries both start with a T, hence this theory can't fail. :P Where is my tinfoil hat?

[Mladen]

Or someone gets knocked up (not Sansa, Myranda perhaps?) and needs to go there, but I still vote for Sweetrobin, since I think he will be Sansa's "test", due to him being such a horrible, bratty thing and how LF has set him up to die so LF, Sansa and Harry can advance. I just wonder if the marriage to Tyrion will need to be thrown out in the meantime as well (and whether my theory on Tysha will prove true!).

There is no one in this world (or in Westeros) who can change my mind about this. Lf`s doom won`t be Sansa`s smartness (but I agree she is smart), it`ll be her compassion towards Sweetrobin...That`s how you beat player, with a weapon he doesn`t have...

[Kittykatknits]

Congrats Brash! May you swiftly gain another 5000 posts of awesomeness. :cheers:

I think this is in his conversation with Ilyn Payne when Payne suggests he cut Cersei's throat, or at least kill her, and Jaime says he could not do that to Tommen as he has lost too much already and he can't take away his mother. Ouch, that makes me fear for poor Tommen BeetHater, he seems like such a sweet kid. :(

Regarding Jaime's death, I am not so sure. It seems Jaime has a purpose in the novels that has of yet to be revealed, and I wonder if it isn't tied to Aerys, which means it is pointing towards Jon Snow/Dany since they are the last living Targaryens. Especially how Rhaegar comes out in Jaime's dream and accuses him of not taking care of his children I think is rather telling. Looking at the "dead" major POVs, Cat and Ned, they both had foreshadowing regarding that, and their thoughts/dreams/foreshadowing was mostly centred on the past, but Jaime has some that seem to point towards the future, like the dream scene in Casterly Rock with Tywin, Joffrey, Cersei and Brienne. (Tommen wasn't dead there yet!!!).

I also hope that Jaime's, Brienne's and Sandor's arcs will tie in with Sansa's at some point, since they revolve around her to some degree or other.

That was the quote, yes. I don't think his story is done by a long shot but I still have doubts that he will survive the series. Either way, I am fully prepared to embrace any theory that has Jaime not dying.

Thank you, thank you my dears :) Having friends like you makes the experience much more enjoyable.

With regard to what Kittykatknits said about taking her to the QI, I think Sansa might end up meeting them there. I'm still holding on to the "SR ailing needs medical attention Mya recommends healer on the Isle" theory :) Plus the info we got about women staying there on the Isle seems like a big hint to me.

This could work to. It's not my ideal endgame but I can live with that. I do believe the QI is going to be seen again.

There is no one in this world (or in Westeros) who can change my mind about this. Lf`s doom won`t be Sansa`s smartness (but I agree she is smart), it`ll be her compassion towards Sweetrobin...That`s how you beat player, with a weapon he doesn`t have...

I think she's smart too but I couldn't agree more. Her strengths are compassion and empathy and that's what she'll use. I like that description.

Edit: Pressed post without tying anything...oops

[Lady Lea]

There is no one in this world (or in Westeros) who can change my mind about this. Lf`s doom won`t be Sansa`s smartness (but I agree she is smart), it`ll be her compassion towards Sweetrobin...That`s how you beat player, with a weapon he doesn`t have...

Yep. And it's used in fantasy a lot. It's how Frodo got to Mordor and destroyed the ring isn't it? With friends and love and whatever else that Sauron couldn't understand. And how Harry beat Voldemort. With the power of love (which Voldie didn't understand either).

ETA: congrats on 5K, Brash! :)

[Eric v. Melnibonee]

Dear all, Since several months I am a guest follower of your postings in this forum, but since I like it so much to be here, I am a member now. Let me tell you that I highly appreciate reading your (amazing) thoughts about these fascinating books - this shortens the waiting period for WOW, however its hard to be left in the air with all these cliff-hangers. Sorry, but I do not have to contribute anything news to this thread - besides that I absolutely agree with KKK, Lyanna Stark, Brash and some other posters who greatly express my thinking/feelings much better than I could do it in English language (during reading your posts I am mostly nodding YES, YES, THAT'S IT!). So, please go ahead!!!! I am your fellow follower!!!! Cheers!

[Mladen]

Yep. And it's used in fantasy a lot. It's how Frodo got to Mordor and destroyed the ring isn't it? With friends and love and whatever else that Sauron couldn't understand. And how Harry beat Voldemort. With the power of love (which Voldie didn't understand either).

I believe that Harry trumps them all...I mean, Rowling really enhanced the meaning of the fact Voldemort can`t understand Harry`s (or Dumbledore`s love). But, you are right, evil will never understand compassion...And that`s one of the greatest flaws of it...

[brashcandy]

Welcome Eric V. Melnibonee! Your kind words mean a lot, and I'm so happy to hear you're enjoying the thread :)

[Mladen]

Dear all, Since several months I am a guest follower of your postings in this forum, but since I like it so much to be here, I am a member now. Let me tell you that I highly appreciate reading your (amazing) thoughts about these fascinating books - this shortens the waiting period for WOW, however its hard to be left in the air with all these cliff-hangers. Sorry, but I do not have to contribute anything news to this thread - besides that I absolutely agree with KKK, Lyanna Stark, Brash and some other posters who greatly express my thinking/feelings much better than I could do it in English language (during reading your posts I am mostly nodding YES, YES, THAT'S IT!). So, please go ahead!!!! I am your fellow follower!!!! Cheers!

I truly believe that anyone`s POv can be useful in unveiling Sansa`s character...So welcome and please, be free say what you want...we are much kinder in smashing people`s thoughts and ideas :wideeyed: than others...Don`t be just follower, be one of us...

[Lyanna Stark]

Welcome Eric, nice having you with us. :)

Are we missing further female influences on Sansa or is everyone done? I remember Pod the Impaler mentioning Lady as a possible influence too.

Regarding Sansa using her compassion to get ahead, I think her nature will definitely be something that will help her, since she has a couple of facets to her that I think LF does not comprehend. He seems to understand that she is good at making people trust her, since he mentions she has those innocent Tully eyes, but I am not convinced that he understands exactly how Sansa can empathise with people, even unexpected people that perhaps should be "beneath" her notice, or just not people that should interest her at all, like Lothor Brune and Mya.

It also seems to me that Sansa's capacity for bouncing back is one of her greatest strengths. Despite what she has been through, she is far from broken. In many ways it has strengthened her instead and make her better suited to weather bad situations. I know a lot of people want to project some sort of bad trauma on her, possibly do to her coming across as a more feminine type women, which then must equal mentally fragile, but I think she seems surprisingly untraumatised considering what she has been through. Arya seems to have suffered more in this regard. :(

[brashcandy]

@ Lyanna

We still have Dr. Pepper doing Lollys and Queen Cersei I on Shae.

[Mladen]

It also seems to me that Sansa's capacity for bouncing back is one of her greatest strengths. Despite what she has been through, she is far from broken. In many ways it has strengthened her instead and make her better suited to weather bad situations. I know a lot of people want to project some sort of bad trauma on her, possibly do to her coming across as a more feminine type women, which then must equal mentally fragile, but I think she seems surprisingly untraumatised considering what she has been through. Arya seems to have suffered more in this regard. :(

All Starks have similar paths...It`s the same thing with Bran and Winterfell...Crippled but not dead, burnt but not utterly destroyed...Catelyn is somewhere between life and death, and Arya is faceless as she is Stark. The Starks are well aware that Winter is coming, and that makes them more resilient to all the crappy things that happenned to them...