Ran Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Littlefinger's financing skills were keeping Robert in funds to do what he wanted. He wanted someone who could find money for him, not someone who could keep the books balanced, and Littlefinger obliged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 The timeline as I perceived it was 1. Duel 2. Petyr is laid up, probably drugged for pain 3. Lysa comes to him 4. Drugged Petyr thinks it was Catelyn when he wakes up the next morningLysa pretended to be Cat and slept with Petyr after a night of heavy drinking before the duel, not after it. It's possible she slept with him again when he was recovering from the duel, thus explaining why he thinks he also took Lysa's maidenhood, but I don't think we know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Whatever. Then poor little Petyr is not a liar he just thinks he laid Cat. And surely he never mentioned this to her and she never told him it was bullshit.Anyway, he knows he laid Lysa. What was that then?Lysa was nursing him for some time in the tower.She would have some time to tell her that Catelyn did not really love him (as proven by not giving her favour), that she was just playing with him (Lysa would have meant smiles and dancing).That would have explained what Petyr knew - including the parts that Petyr knew and which as far as he knew were unknown to Lysa ("Catelyn" having crept in his bed).He wasn´t then going to mention that Catelyn crept in his bed (that was then a private secret between him and his beloved - it was years later when he was a success in life that he could make a boastful claim about his beloved who had so cruelly betrayed him).He was not allowed to as much as meet Catelyn till he was carted away to Fingers. He sent a long letter to Catelyn after Brandon died. Catelyn burnt it unread. Maybe in that letter he did mention Catelyn having sex with him?The next time they ever met was in King´s Landing 15 years later. And then he did not bring up these love matters - she was married and settled down with her family.His attitude to Catelyn and her family, however, remained coloured by the "fact" of her betrayal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~LeTargaryen Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 I always wondered why Robert kept LF around at all. It's not like LF's financing skills were keeping the the realm out of debt.You mean King Robert? If so, it was probably because King Robert knew somehow Littlefinger was the key to holding the Erye because of his former relationship with Lysa. LF also said that his way of playing the game of thrones kept him at the king's court, making everyone believe he was loyal. In simple words, he took every task the king told him to, and meanwhile he acted on his own things secretly so no one would be suspicious about him because he was just believed to be doing as he was commanded. For exemple, LF is sent to the Vale to marry Lysa, and while he's expected to be there he rescues Sansa from King's Landing as he would be the last person thought to be involved in her escape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~LeTargaryen Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 I always wondered why Robert kept LF around at all. It's not like LF's financing skills were keeping the the realm out of debt.Also, LF was able to attend to the court's lack of funds, which granted him permanency in his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~LeTargaryen Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 Heading back to the maidenhoods' questions, it's plain that LF took Lysa's virginity, if not that time when he was drunk but then when Lysa nursed him...every way LF and Lysa had sex. But, as smart as LF is, why does he still think it was Catelyn who crept in his bed? If after that he knew Catelyn was just playing with him and didn't love him at all, what reason would she have to have given him her maidenhood? It sounds really strange to me to give your virginity to a boy and then despise him just to "play". On the other hand, can't just LF be lying about his relationship with Catelyn (knowing it was not her in his bed) just to boast to Sansa, making Sansa believe he had a great influence over her mother and then making Sansa trust him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Heading back to the maidenhoods' questions, it's plain that LF took Lysa's virginity, if not that time when he was drunk but then when Lysa nursed him...every way LF and Lysa had sex. But, as smart as LF is, why does he still think it was Catelyn who crept in his bed? If after that he knew Catelyn was just playing with him and didn't love him at all, what reason would she have to have given him her maidenhood? It sounds really strange to me to give your virginity to a boy and then despise him just to "play". On the other hand, can't just LF be lying about his relationship with Catelyn (knowing it was not her in his bed) just to boast to Sansa, making Sansa believe he had a great influence over her mother and then making Sansa trust him?When do you think he would have got the idea? And how would he have reacted?When he issued the challenge, it was clearly his honest belief that Catelyn had given him her maidenhead. This is the only way his decision to issue to challenge, and stubbornly stick to it when repeatedly wounded in the fight, makes sense. It makes perfect sense. Look at how another 15 year old boy reacted when a girl consoled him by taking his virginity. It was dishonourable and predictably suicidal for Robb to marry Elys - but his honour required him to go ahead and do what was honourable, eventually costing his life and those of thousands of his men. Petyr´s challenge to Brandon makes perfect sense in view of his honest belief - and only then.And when life proved to not be a song - Catelyn refused him her favour, and he lost the duel - why would he have thought to question the "facts" of his experience? He questioned Catelyn´s love, good will and honesty, and fairness of life in general - not the "facts" he felt with his own body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Again, we don't know it was his honest belief. Until he actually indicates it, that is speculative.It makes perfect sense for him to be so in love with Catelyn that he'd fight for hand, regardless of whether he believed they slept together or not. Men have made more foolish gestures for less cause, after all.Here is the thing that might raise the doubt that he actually believes this: he never talked to Catelyn about it. He never entreated her to refuse Brandon because of "that night". That is strange behavior. It could indicate that afterward he himself doubted... but he wanted to believe so much that decided it was safest to never say anything to her, to preserve the possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Here is the thing that might raise the doubt that he actually believes this: he never talked to Catelyn about it. He never entreated her to refuse Brandon because of "that night". That is strange behavior. It could indicate that afterward he himself doubted... but he wanted to believe so much that decided it was safest to never say anything to her, to preserve the possibility.Or else he did not have an opportunity to talk to her in private after issuing his challenge. Catelyn could and did talk to Brandon in private because it was Brandon who was her engaged groom - but we know that Petyr had no opportunity to meet her even in public after the duel, and the only time they met before the duel, when he asked her for her favour and she refused, was in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Or else he did not have an opportunity to talk to her in private after issuing his challenge.But the first time he slept with Lysa -- the time that he called her "Cat" before he fell into a drunken sleep -- was at least weeks, probably months, before the occasion of the duel. It was when Lord Bracken and Lord Blackwood came to bring their dispute before Lord Hoster, and not when Brandon arrived for the announcement for the betrothal date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A wilding Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 @ Jaak:That is still a bit odd though. Even if he did not have a chance to make an opportunity to talk to her in private after he issued the challenge, he would certainly have been able to before he did so, but apparently he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyarian rose Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I believe LF is lying in his delusion that he slept with both Cat and Lysa. Or, perhaps as it's been said in this thread, maybe LF remembers it as *he* remembers it being Cat he bedded while he was drunk, and not Lysa. I don't think he bedded Cat because she reflects later on that she did her duty as a daughter to her father. When she was supposed to marry Brandon, she accepted it. When LF lost in the duel with Brandon, she says how she never once after the fight went to see LF; not even when he had to leave Riverrun on her father's orders. I suppose it was Lysa that was tending to him that entire time in the tower as he healed from his wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandalf the Grey Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 You mean King Robert? If so, it was probably because King Robert knew somehow Littlefinger was the key to holding the Erye because of his former relationship with Lysa. LF also said that his way of playing the game of thrones kept him at the king's court, making everyone believe he was loyal. In simple words, he took every task the king told him to, and meanwhile he acted on his own things secretly so no one would be suspicious about him because he was just believed to be doing as he was commanded. For exemple, LF is sent to the Vale to marry Lysa, and while he's expected to be there he rescues Sansa from King's Landing as he would be the last person thought to be involved in her escapeSorry guys, I never actually read Game of Thrones, I watched the TV series, then started the books from A Clash of Kings. I always thought that LF had been treasurer even when Jon Arryn was alive, so he wasn't needed to hold the Vale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannicus Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 If Cat didn't sleep with LF why doesn't she deny it when talking with Jamie? LF is a snake but I don't know him to be delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 If Cat didn't sleep with LF why doesn't she deny it when talking with Jamie? LF is a snake but I don't know him to be delusional.She remembers Ned taking her maidenhood. Littlefinger is either lying or being delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Daughter Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 My understanding has always been LF deflowered Lysa and thought it was Cat. He may have realized later it wasn't, but wishes it was so he just keeps telling himself it was.I also think the baby Lysa couldn't keep was fathered by LF. I believe it's in the text. Lysa says to LF something like "..our sweet baby.." or am I mis remembering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannicus Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I'm aware of what she said, but it just seems odd that she wouldn't defend her own honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I'm aware of what she said, but it just seems odd that she wouldn't defend her own honor.It's not that odd. She just doesn't dignify it with a response. That's a much more reasonable explanation than her lying to herself in her own thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannicus Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 It's not that odd. She just doesn't dignify it with a response. That's a much more reasonable explanation than her lying to herself in her own thoughts.Probably, unless she felt guilty and locked it away inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythsandstuff Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I'm aware of what she said, but it just seems odd that she wouldn't defend her own honor.To Jaime Lannister? Would she think him deserving of an explanation? Does she care what he thinks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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