Ser Kevan Lannister-- a "funny uncle"?

[FanTasy]

Ah dude, do you know what gelding is? That's far from a way out.

Like I said I can't speak for women. But for me the WoS doesn't seem that bad, so I'm walk of shaming it all day.

Ehm ... yes, I know what gelding is, and what it would be for a man to be gelded.

You chose to quote a bit selectively, by the way. What I said was : For men there is a way out in Westeros: take the appropiate punishment, for instance gelding in case of rape, or take the Black

What I was asking was what women might choose, if they were given a choice between say lifelong confinement to the Silent Sisters or a walk of shame, This could be enlightning ...

[lostcause]

Really? I find it hard to see anything amusing in a thread that talks about the WoS. Sexualized acts of violence, just like the WoS, are a common weapon of war even today and are regularly used to break people, especially women today. Think of the rapes in the Sudan or the use of comfort woman in WW2. I think QC1 raised some valid points on the WoW and the role that Kevan Lannister played in it, regardless of whether or not a poster agrees with the fact that he is a "funny uncle".

I agree, though I'd say it's used as much on men as women. Think of the many images shown of the torture and mistreatment of prisoners in the scandals. Almost all of them have sexual abusive natures, and one would be naive to think the few exposed cases are the only times that happens. Sadly.

[Garlan Marius]

I agree, though I'd say it's used as much on men as women. Think of the many images shown of the torture and mistreatment of prisoners in the scandals. Almost all of them have sexual abusive natures, and one would be naive to think the few exposed cases are the only times that happens. Sadly.

Such as shoving them naked into crow cages.

[WithPointyEnd]

I don't see pillaging the Riverlands as Kevan's guilt.He just did his duty to his lord and brother.I am sure if Brandon ordered the same thing Ned would have done it.And I don't even hold Tywin responsible.That was just the way of war.Using fear and dread were the way of war.Stark used his direwolf for it whereas Tywin used his Mountain and his goat.

Actually,it still is the way of war.And Tywin isn't the one who started this whole war.It's Catelyn.

[Gannicus]

Ehm ... yes, I know what gelding is, and what it would be for a man to be gelded.

You chose to quote a bit selectively, by the way. What I said was : For men there is a way out in Westeros: take the appropiate punishment, for instance gelding in case of rape, or take the Black

What I was asking was what women might choose, if they were given a choice between say lifelong confinement to the Silent Sisters or a walk of shame, This could be enlightning ...

My mistake, the way the commas were arranged I thought you were listing that as a way out.

[lilenadheas]

Yes, Kevan talks about her being soiled goods because the plebe has seen her naked. In addition, I've never seen another connotation to this expression (when used in regards to women) that isn't sexual. By the way, she lost her power exactly BECAUSE she is now "soiled goods".

Yes I've been to torture and Inquisition museums in Spain and London, and I've seen people being tortured as well. The fact that torture and murder exist and that "it could have been worse" doesn't mean that the sexual punishment to which she has been subjected isn't traumatic and awful, though this is a common argument as to why sexual violence during war isn't "very important" and is regarded to this day by many as "an unfortunate collateral damage".

Wait.. what? Please elaborate if you have the time, my curiosity is piqued.

BTW, love the Avatar. Lady Mary is the ultimate badass

[brashcandy]

Do you deny that there are also sexually humiliating punishments for men in this world?

Do you realise that these men are the one who committed acts of sexual violence in the first place?

[mormont]

[mod] That's about enough of the personal sniping. Address the topic, don't snark at each other, please. [/mod]

[Garlan Marius]

Do you realise that these men are the one who committed acts of sexual violence in the first place?

The crow cages are for many different crimes, some of which amount to "being in the wrong army."

[Winter's Knight]

Did anyone else notice the similarity between:

I have no reason to feel guilty, Ser Kevan told himself. Tywin would understand that, surely. It was his daughter who brought shame down on our name, not I. What I did I did for the good of House Lannister.

and the excuses made both by rapists ("She made me do it") and people who murder female relatives in the name of honour?

And may I just say that a gent who can think of his niece taking a WoS as necessary to take her down a peg or two definitely qualifies as creepy.

[Rolex Baratheon]

OP you're being really unreasonable. Ser Kevan was there at the castle to receive the shamed Queen, as per protocol and since he's Lord Regent/ her uncle. He watched her not to observe her nakedness but because he was surprised at how shamed she was, and also perhaps there was a bit of spite in him. And who would blame him after what Cersei did with Lancel (literal sense here)?

He isn't a Grade A creeper at all, he;s been firmly established as a man with morals and a decent guy. His wife is decent, his family decent and he himself is decent unlike Cersei.

[TerraPrime]

I don't see pillaging the Riverlands as Kevan's guilt.He just did his duty to his lord and brother.I am sure if Brandon ordered the same thing Ned would have done it.And I don't even hold Tywin responsible.That was just the way of war.Using fear and dread were the way of war.Stark used his direwolf for it whereas Tywin used his Mountain and his goat.

If this were such a regular part of war, then why did all the Lannister men take off their house colors and identities to masquerade as bandits?

Tywin was the mastermind of the tactics, far as we can tell, so Kevan shouldn't get the blame for it. But at the same time, Kevan does share a moral blame, just as soldiers who carry out unjust orders do.

Actually,it still is the way of war.And Tywin isn't the one who started this whole war.It's Catelyn.

:rolleyes: :bs:

[Winter's Knight]

OP you're being really unreasonable. Ser Kevan was there at the castle to receive the shamed Queen, as per protocol and since he's Lord Regent/ her uncle. He watched her not to observe her nakedness but because he was surprised at how shamed she was, and also perhaps there was a bit of spite in him. And who would blame him after what Cersei did with Lancel (literal sense here)?

He isn't a Grade A creeper at all, he;s been firmly established as a man with morals and a decent guy. His wife is decent, his family decent and he himself is decent unlike Cersei.

Where is everyone getting the idea that he was moral? From his ravaging the Riverlands? Or from his conspiring in Sansa's "marriage? His approval of Tywin's treatment of Tytos' mistress? His dumbly going along with Tywin's every plan?

The man's not Hodor, he's capable of thinking on his own, surely and opting to stay out of court life rather than go along with Tywin.

[Garlan Marius]

Tywin was the mastermind of the tactics, far as we can tell, so Kevan shouldn't get the blame for it. But at the same time, Kevan does share a moral blame, just as soldiers who carry out unjust orders do.

Milgram experiment.

:bs:

[brashcandy]

Did anyone else notice the similarity between:

and the excuses made both by rapists ("She made me do it") and people who murder female relatives in the name of honour?

And may I just say that a gent who can think of his niece taking a WoS as necessary to take her down a peg or two definitely qualifies as creepy.

Indeed. I noted this upthread as well; it's the same kind of abusive rationalisation that we often hear. I really don't see how anyone can read Kevan as paternal or concerned about Cersei.

[Thunderfist]

Indeed. I noted this upthread as well; it's the same kind of abusive rationalisation that we often hear. I really don't see how anyone can read Kevan as paternal or concerned about Cersei.

I really don´t see how anyone can read Kevan as not being paternal or concerned about Cersei.

[LordBloodraven]

Did anyone else notice the similarity between:

and the excuses made both by rapists ("She made me do it") and people who murder female relatives in the name of honour?

And may I just say that a gent who can think of his niece taking a WoS as necessary to take her down a peg or two definitely qualifies as creepy.

Yes, but the WoS was devised by the High Septon, not Kevan. His guilt is having gone along with it

[lilenadheas]

Indeed. I noted this upthread as well; it's the same kind of abusive rationalisation that we often hear. I really don't see how anyone can read Kevan as paternal or concerned about Cersei.

He can't be torn? He can't have some vestige of filial love left in him? I think you are being too harsh in your reading of the character, but each to their own I guess. He's no saint, as you and many have pointed out, but perhaps he can feel grim satisfaction in knowing that he has neutralized a serious threat to his house, while lamenting that it had to be done at all, and that his niece was the enemy he had to see fall in order for stability and safety to be within his grasp?

[Gurkhal]

And may I just say that a gent who can think of his niece taking a WoS as necessary to take her down a peg or two definitely qualifies as creepy.

Forgive my ignorance but wouldn't that make Kevan cruel, sadistic or at the worst misogynistic as opposed to creepy. I certainly attribute a whole different set of qualities to the word "creepy" than what he does.

[Winter's Knight]

Forgive my ignorance but wouldn't that make Kevan cruel, sadistic or at the worst misogynistic as opposed to creepy. I certainly attribute a whole different set of qualities to the word "creepy" than what he does.

It's creepy because that's his niece he's thinking of parading naked through KL-a woman he's seen grow up.