Crown Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 Moriori = Children of the Forest? I can't help but wonder...Really...:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janne123g Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 i think the book is great, but i feel that he didn't think it through completely and it somewhat fails to connect the 6 stories properly. first, the lifetimes of luisa and cavendish overlap, so he can't b her reincarnation. Secondly, we only c 1 main character reincarnate, what about the rest of the main characters in each story? for instance, whose reincarnation is HaeJoo Im? i hope the movie will do a better job...it negates the theory of soulmates...adam loves tilda, but then where is she throughout other 5 lives? then tilda, sixsmith, sachs, ursula, hae joo im, zachry should also be reincarnations of the same soul...so another fail here... also, the book gives so little hope 4 the human race if u noticed each story ends in betrayal and murder...i loved story #5, it could have existed as a separate novel - very enjoyable read, but the end is so heartbreaking and atypical, not very well though out...story#1 was also brilliant and #6 is pretty good...the rest i didn't like, especially #4 i still don't c how it belongs with the rest of them and it's quite bizarre and pretty boring imho. i can see how sixsmith could reincarnate into the archivist or dr goose into bill smoke or autua into napier or isaac sacks becomes zachry, but the book fails to make those connections...i'm quite put out actually...can't wait for the movie, hoping it's a lot more put together and logical...i still love the book, it's so dense with the ideas and characters, and i love it's structure, how it breaks abruptly and a new story begins, but very much vexed but apparent lack of connections... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janne123g Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I didn't really like Adam Ewing's story myself, but that last two pages were brilliant. His explanation of the history and the natural order of this world was brilliant.I just remembered something else, Bill Smokes asks Luisa Rey if she always gets so -insert word I can't remember here- before she dies. To which I thought, who the hell was Bill Smokes in his previous life? Old Georgie (same actor, for the movie)?he could only have been Dr Goose, cause he was the one trying to kill the body of that sould b4, but mayb smokes was referring to the previous attempt he made on her life when she almost drowned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janne123g Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 But David Mitchell said that the six main characters were the same person... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janne123g Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Moriori = Children of the Forest? I can't help but wonder...---yup direct comparison #1 and #6 Maori vs Mariori and Valley Folk vs savage Kona ppl - the history repeats itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 i think the book is great, but i feel that he didn't think it through completely and it somewhat fails to connect the 6 stories properly. first, the lifetimes of luisa and cavendish overlap, so he can't b her reincarnation. Secondly, we only c 1 main character reincarnate, what about the rest of the main characters in each story? for instance, whose reincarnation is HaeJoo Im? i hope the movie will do a better job...it negates the theory of soulmates...adam loves tilda, but then where is she throughout other 5 lives? then tilda, sixsmith, sachs, ursula, hae joo im, zachry should also be reincarnations of the same soul...so another fail here... also, the book gives so little hope 4 the human race if u noticed each story ends in betrayal and murder...i loved story #5, it could have existed as a separate novel - very enjoyable read, but the end is so heartbreaking and atypical, not very well though out...story#1 was also brilliant and #6 is pretty good...the rest i didn't like, especially #4 i still don't c how it belongs with the rest of them and it's quite bizarre and pretty boring imho. i can see how sixsmith could reincarnate into the archivist or dr goose into bill smoke or autua into napier or isaac sacks becomes zachry, but the book fails to make those connections...i'm quite put out actually...can't wait for the movie, hoping it's a lot more put together and logical...i still love the book, it's so dense with the ideas and characters, and i love it's structure, how it breaks abruptly and a new story begins, but very much vexed but apparent lack of connections...I think it's a mistake to take Mitchell's comment about all but one of the characters being reincarnations of the same "soul" as meaning that it all happens in a chronological order within the same "reality". Like I said above, that would make Cavendish the person who isn't part of the "soul", and that seems wrong to me (particularly considering how he seems to have many of Frobisher's characteristics). I don't think the other characters reincarnate in the book, although Mitchell occasionally describes them in ways that you can make comparisons. The Archivist in "Orison of Sonmi 451" is a lot like Adam Ewing in "Pacific Journal": a minor functionary who is fundamentally decent, but naive and sheltered from the horrors of his society. The "soulmates across time" is something that the movie added in. I also disagree with this:.i loved story #5, it could have existed as a separate novel - very enjoyable read, but the end is so heartbreaking and atypical, not very well though out.I thought it was very well thought-out. It ties in Mitchell's argument that predatory societies ultimately consume themselves, and reveals how the Juche severely mis-stepped with their plot (something that Sonmi realized and has taken advantage of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davos55 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I really loved this novel, but I could not get through Black Swan Green for some reason. I only had like 90 pages left, but I had to get it back to the library. I am sure I will take it out again sometime and finish it, but that novel just did not do it for me at all. I don't know if I had too high of expectations coming off of liking this one so much, but either way I have no burning desire to finish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 nope. he says all main characters except 1 and that has to be cavendish cause he and luisa were alive at the same time so 1 soul couldn't b in 2 bodies simultaneously...I know. I corrected myself later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 It really doesn't feel like Cavendish is the exception, though. He has the birth mark, even if he dismisses it. Zach'ry is the only one of them without the comet-shaped birthmark, something that he apparently noticed on Meronym (which his son points out).Like I said, I think it's a mistake to assume that "reincarnation" in this story means that each character is reborn in a chronological order in the same reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janne123g Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 It really doesn't feel like Cavendish is the exception, though. He has the birth mark, even if he dismisses it. Zach'ry is the only one of them without the comet-shaped birthmark, something that he apparently noticed on Meronym (which his son points out).Like I said, I think it's a mistake to assume that "reincarnation" in this story means that each character is reborn in a chronological order in the same reality.in story #6 Meronym is the one with the birthmark, so zachry doesn't have to have one...i think zachry is a spitting image of isaac sachs - a coward who conquers his fear and rises to the occasion, that's why i made a parallel between the soul connection of luisa+sachs and meronym+zachry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janne123g Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I think it's a mistake to take Mitchell's comment about all but one of the characters being reincarnations of the same "soul" as meaning that it all happens in a chronological order within the same "reality". Like I said above, that would make Cavendish the person who isn't part of the "soul", and that seems wrong to me (particularly considering how he seems to have many of Frobisher's characteristics).I don't think the other characters reincarnate in the book, although Mitchell occasionally describes them in ways that you can make comparisons. The Archivist in "Orison of Sonmi 451" is a lot like Adam Ewing in "Pacific Journal": a minor functionary who is fundamentally decent, but naive and sheltered from the horrors of his society. The "soulmates across time" is something that the movie added in.I also disagree with this:I thought it was very well thought-out. It ties in Mitchell's argument that predatory societies ultimately consume themselves, and reveals how the Juche severely mis-stepped with their plot (something that Sonmi realized and has taken advantage of). I think the archivist is actually much like sixsmith - both of them are watching the main character throughout the story knowing of their trouble and imminent demise unable to help them however they'd wish to...they are essentially passive powerless characters who are recording the main characters lives (Sixsmith thru RF's letters, Archivist thru Sonmi's orison interview). As far as Cavendish i'm having a hard time connecting that story to the rest, even though u can c in essence #1 is just like #3, and #2 is just like #4, while #5 and #6 are connected to each other by a slightly different principle.as far as ur comment abt #5 - govt can only b as evil as the ppl let it be, the story shows how ppl who had tremendous power to change things (like HaeJoo Im - who was described as a nice and decent person all throughout the story) all of a sudden turns out to be a villain and aids the evil or others who idly stood by with the attitude (if it's not happening to me just let it be). At the end of story #5 the evil corpocracy prevails giving no hope for the future, so the story completely fails to show how and when that society will consume itself and story #6 could have happened a thousand years after sonmi and even then it's not explained what caused the Fall and how those other societies ceased to exist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbor Gold Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Finished this book last night and I am so sad it is over. I loved Cloud Atlas from the very beginning, and I can't wait to read it again. There's so much to think about, both during the read and after, that it is going to take a significant time for me to digest. I loved all the connections between the stories, and the humor and wordplay was unexpected and delightful. Will try to contribute to the discussion, but still wrapping my brain around what I just read. How accessible is this book?Very accessible. I can get through it, anybody can. As others mentioned, the language in the first story can be a bit of a challenge, but I made good use of my kindle dictionary and the humor really carried me through. With respect to the structure of the stories being interrupted just when they get exciting, well, I feel like anyone who has read GRRM should be able to handle that, no problem. ;)While I liked the convenience of the kindle dictionary while reading, I was a bit frustrated by the inability to easily flip back and refresh my memory as I went along. Would definitely like to have a real copy of Cloud Atlas to mark up and flip through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Éadaoin Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I love this book. I've read it twice, once a few years ago and then again recently. I'm thrilled that it was made into a film, but I'm also a bit wary. I have the feeling that a book-to-film translation could get... messy in this case. Still, I have high hopes.I love how ambitious this book was, how creative, how clever the writing. I would say that it's one of my favorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbor Gold Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Meant to include a mention of the conversation between Luisa and Javier, in the second part of Luisa's story (part 47), about the future:"If you could see into the future,: he asks, "would you?""Depends on if you could change it or not"And then a little bit later, Luisa says, "What if trying to avoid the future is what triggers it all?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic The Hedgehog Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think I'm going to be more of a fan of the movie because I honestly didn't get the book. I got the individual stories, but the big picture and how they were all related went over my head. I really think part of this was that I've been so busy and have been reading so many other novels for classes that it took me a month to get through the book. As such, it was hard for me to make the connections and pick up on the revelations in the second half. I get it when it's pointed out in this thread, but on my own I'd have had no clue about things like the characters being reincarnations of each other. So I think I'll be able to appreciate the story better concentrated into a few hours of movie.That being said, I do like Mitchell's writing style enough that I'll check out his other books eventually. The fact that the six stories were so different demonstrated a lot of range for storytelling in one book. It also helped if a part wasn't that interesting I knew I just had to wait around forty pages to get something totally different. And that was definitely what got me through the sixth story which I honestly hated due to how heavy the slang was. I still liked and cared about all the characters though. But I think Zachry's story will work much better as a cinematic experience for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Lord Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I didn't get that the characters were direct reincarnations of each other. I interpreted it more as they were recurring characters in the same saga, being played out again and again. Before I read it, the friend that rec'd Cloud Atlas to me told me that the stories weren't related so much by character as by theme, so I paid less attention to character similarities. The comet-birthmark signified the thematic elements to me, not the character-soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedGhost Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think Zachry's section was easier to read than janne123g's posts. :uhoh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Lord Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 C'mon REG, janne123g might not be a native English speaker.Which doesn't excuse posting four times in a row :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 At the end of story #5 the evil corpocracy prevails giving no hope for the future, so the story completely fails to show how and when that society will consume itself and story #6 could have happened a thousand years after sonmi and even then it's not explained what caused the Fall and how those other societies ceased to exist... Maybe it's because I just re-read the Sonmi sections, but I saw how Nea So Copros could collapse. Dissatisfaction and anger are stewing in the slums of downstrata and illegal immigrants, pollution is creeping into the country past the "cordon", the regime is extracting more and more wealth from the populace through the Enrichment Statutes, and the whole society is becoming completely dependent on Fabricants to do everything - and it's still described as not being enough, which is why the Juche is risking potential disruptions among the Fabricants through the ascension process. In order to carry out their "dissolve the downstrata" plot, they need Fabricants who can do more than repetitive manual labor- they need Fabricants who can do stuff like Boom-Sook. Those are also Fabricants who can think and understand things, like Sonmi's Declarations (which the state is described as becoming more and more paranoid as it keeps finding copies in the hands of Fabricants). Moreover, considering the Archivist's horrified reaction to finding out what "Xultation" actually is, I think it's clear that acceptance of the treatment of Fabricants was in part based on apathy and ignorance on the part of the purebloods. As long as the butchery was happening out of sight, they could just ignore any indications otherwise and take the Juche's lies about Xultation at face value. But the show trial, the Declarations, and ultimately (I suspect) Sonmi's leaked Orison openly showed the regime's predatory nature to the populace, something that was then reinforced with even more repression and the "Fabricant Xpiry Act".And once the purebloods got the "spark of conscience" mentioned by Adam Ewing in part 2, and started questioning and potentially disrupting the carefully maintained "state pyramid", it was all over. Any serious dissent or regime weakness likely exploded into full blown violence and revolution as all the grievances of the downstrata and ascended Fabricants came out. Since the survival of the country itself and protection from the expanding deadlands was dependent on that order working precisely in the face of ecological collapse, the failure of that system caused the deadlands to move in with a vengeance, and everyone died (Meronym describes Nea So Copros as being a deadland). Personally, Sonmi's sections were my favorite in the whole book. In many ways, she's the most self-aware character out of the six, even Zach'ry (who grasps the idea of the "atlas of clouds", but still blames bad behavior and the like on "Old Georgie"). Nea So Copros doesn't strike me as being a likely future society, but it's still fascinating because literally every aspect of it is predatory from top to bottom. I think I'm going to be more of a fan of the movie because I honestly didn't get the book. I got the individual stories, but the big picture and how they were all related went over my head. I really think part of this was that I've been so busy and have been reading so many other novels for classes that it took me a month to get through the book. As such, it was hard for me to make the connections and pick up on the revelations in the second half. I get it when it's pointed out in this thread, but on my own I'd have had no clue about things like the characters being reincarnations of each other. So I think I'll be able to appreciate the story better concentrated into a few hours of movie.I think the movie is going to play up the whole "soul-mates across time" thing, as opposed to the book's main theme about Predacity. As for the structure of the book, I didn't grasp the pyramid-like nature of it until I heard Mitchell's quote about "individuals preying upon individuals, groups upon groups, nations upon nations". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbor Gold Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 As far as Cavendish i'm having a hard time connecting that story to the rest,I am having the same trouble. He just feels...out of place, somehow. I'm also having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that, to Cavendish, Luisa is a fictional character. Yet, Luisa had the deja-vu when looking at the Prophetess and Sonmi had the "being inside a car and falling" deja-vu while escaping in the car, and Luisa had the "I've heard this music before" deja-vu upon hearing Frobisher's composition, so...?The Frobisher-Cavendish connection is established via Nefretiti - Eva's horse and Mrs. Latham's earrings (given to her by Cavendish from the museum gift shop bargain bin), but that just feels kind of forced.I'm not even sure if this post makes any sense; I'm trying to work this out and I'm kind of confused. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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