Cloud Atlas

[Crown]

Agreed.

I guess this must have either been approved by Mitchell or he just gave them the go-ahead to do what they like, because it's changing the fundamentals of the story.

Although I do like their take on Bill Smokes, Nurse Noakies and Old Georgie being the same person (played by the same actor).

[mythsandstuff]

BBC World Book Club discussion/interview with Mitchell - there's some interesting stuff in there about process, but some of the questions are dumb:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p007wh53

[skittles11]

Questions from someone who didn't get it:

For slooshes crossing basically the barbarians take over in the end and the Prussians all die out due to some mysterious virus? The end implies that zachry ends up back in Hawaii somehow though and nothing ever changes?

For Sonmi 451's tale - can someone explain the ending? Basically the government set the whole thing up to provide some sort of villain for the populace? Why did they need to considering they already had a ton of control? Why did they even need her to write her declarations, let alone release them to everyone? Was union actually always working for the government and not really a rebellion? Mitchell shows the horror of this world and its unbridled captitalism, yet implies that there is no escape?

Having finished these 2 tales is the whole point of the story to show humans futility in its struggle? Is that really the message of this book?

[mythsandstuff]

Questions from someone who didn't get it:

For slooshes crossing basically the barbarians take over in the end and the Prussians all die out due to some mysterious virus? The end implies that zachry ends up back in Hawaii somehow though and nothing ever changes?

For Sonmi 451's tale - can someone explain the ending? Basically the government set the whole thing up to provide some sort of villain for the populace? Why did they need to considering they already had a ton of control? Why did they even need her to write her declarations, let alone release them to everyone? Was union actually always working for the government and not really a rebellion? Mitchell shows the horror of this world and its unbridled captitalism, yet implies that there is no escape?

Having finished these 2 tales is the whole point of the story to show humans futility in its struggle? Is that really the message of this book?

You see futility, I see endurance. But I'm a glass half-full kind of gal.

[Guerillacropolis]

Cloud Atlas one of my favorite books. My favorite chapters are the ones about the amanuensis (Frobisher). I loved the story structure of the embedded narratives. The most impressive feat to me was how Mitchell kept changing genres, styles, and voices with each different section. I've never seen anybody else do this so well.

If you haven't read his other novels, Cloud Atlas was his last very strange one. Ghostwritten and Number 9 Dream are good, but are somewhat psychedelic. Black Swan Green and The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet are much more conventional, but just as well-written. There's also a subtle overlap between Cloud Atlas and Black Swan Green.

Don't know yet what to think of the movie, but at least it'll inspire more people to read the book. Doubt I'll see it; can't take Tom Hanks seriously any more. Just like Michael Jackson and Keanu Reeves, he was only good in the 80s/early 90s.

Has anybody heard any rumors about what David Mitchell's next book will be about? Looking forward to it; hope he never stops writing.

[RedEyedGhost]

Has anybody heard any rumors about what David Mitchell's next book will be about? Looking forward to it; hope he never stops writing.

TTAoJdZ is book 1 of 3, so I imagine those will be he next two, but not all authors work that way.

[GimmeYoBurgahs]

But David Mitchell said that the six main characters were the same person...

I dont see how they can be the same person seeing as Cavendish is living within the same time period as Louisa because she never died and he's older than her..

[Davos55]

Thank you for making a a thread dedicated to this amazing novel!

I absolutely love this book. Cavendish is probably one of my favorite characters in any story I have read in a while..his thoughts on things and his wit were just excellent. His sections were definitely my favorite, along with Frobisher's sections. The novel as a whole is just incredible and really comes together in an outstanding way. I can't speak enough about how brilliant I believe this book is.

I have been trying to get my friends, family (even some professors) to read this novel. I really hope that they do. This story is great and will stick with me forever.

Now as far as the movie goes..I am definitely going to see it (hopefully a midnight premiere), but I will go in with somewhat low expectations. I never like to get my hopes up about film adaptations too much, and I know that this brilliant story will not feel the same when I see it in the theater. I hope it turns out amazing and that after people see it, they immediately decide to read the book.

Side note: I am pumped to see Hugo Weaving as Bill Smoke. That character made me think of Hugo Weaving as Agent Smith, so I know that he will nail the role.

Love this book, and am now currently reading Black Swan Green. I can't wait to read all of David Mitchell's work over the next couple months.

[Mudguard]

Picked up this book after seeing the movie trailer on line and really enjoyed it. It made me think quite a bit more than the average novels I usually read. Because of the way the book is structured, I think it's one of the few that I'll read a second time shortly after finishing it for the first time. I'm sure that on the first pass I didn't realize the significance of many details in the first half of the book.

[Crown]

I dont see how they can be the same person seeing as Cavendish is living within the same time period as Louisa because she never died and he's older than her..

I looked up the quote again:

Literally all of the main characters, except one, are reincarnations of the same soul in different bodies throughout the novel identified by a birthmark...that's just a symbol really of the universality of human nature. The title itself "Cloud Atlas," the cloud refers to the ever changing manifestations of the Atlas, which is the fixed human nature which is always thus and ever shall be. So the book's theme is predacity, the way individuals prey on individuals, groups on groups, nations on nations, tribes on tribes. So I just take this theme and in a sense reincarnate that theme in another context...

Picked up this book after seeing the movie trailer on line and really enjoyed it. It made me think quite a bit more than the average novels I usually read. Because of the way the book is structured, I think it's one of the few that I'll read a second time shortly after finishing it for the first time. I'm sure that on the first pass I didn't realize the significance of many details in the first half of the book.

Me too, I think about it quite a lot, really. It has some really fascinating aspects that just keep me thinking.

Gonna try and use this book for my oral exam English at the end of the year (did A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings this year, and I really amazed them), so hopefully they'll allow me to read it again and talk about it.

[Spring Bass]

I just finished the book, and it was amazing. I ended up buying it after debating over whether to wait for a library copy, and it was completely worth it.

1. I thought it was fascinating how Frobisher and Cavendish are the same type of person at heart. Frobisher is a predator who feels no remorse over the books he steals or the affair with Ayers' wife, and whose letters are constantly colored by a sense of being "put-upon" and victimized. He's also a massive bullshitter.

Cavendish is the same way. His sense of victimhood is in every part of his section, and at no point does he admit any kind of remorse or sense of responsibility for his actions (such as taking advantage of Dermot's imprisonment to spend all the money he got from selling Knuckle Sandwich). I wouldn't be surprised if his story as written is heavliy exaggerated and full of falsehood, particularly since he appears to be writing an autobiography that he's hoping to make money off of, just like with Knuckle Sandwich.

2. The First Luisa Ray Mystery was hilarious. It reminded me of something I read once that was written by Isaac Asimov, about how it takes good writing to make a dumb character compelling. Mitchell made her section compelling even while deliberately using a plot and characters that are sub-"airport novel" in quality . . . in the first half. In the second half, "Hillary Huff"'s novel is even worse than that, with all manner of insane subplots and conspiracies within conspiracies, plus the section at her mom's house which ties to "Somni 451" but feels out of place (just like how her ex-boyfriend moving stuff out was deliberately out-of-place feeling in the first half).

3. While Sonmi 451 seems to be the most self-aware of the six main characters, I get the impression that she's editing things in her final account as well. Particularly the part where she's arrested once the Declarations are written and the Unanimity Plot run its course - it may have actually been a big shock for her, but now she's projecting her jadedness back to it. At least she gets the last laugh, being remembered as a Goddess of Civilization after the Fall.

4. "Sloosha's Crossing" was the most difficult part for me. I liked it, but the whole thing being in vernacular made it more challenging than "Adam Ewing" (which I actually didn't have much trouble with). The ending made it worthwhile, though, even if it's bittersweet - the Prescients may have pushed the other groups away from Big I towards civilized behavior, but now they can't even understand what the Orison is saying.

5. The ending was great, once Adam Ewing comes to his realization about Predation and Choice, and his belief that a predatory society will eventually consume itself (as Nea So Copros eventually does). It's also rather bittersweet, since I think it implies that he won't live long enough to really do his plan to crusade for abolitionism.

For Sonmi 451's tale - can someone explain the ending? Basically the government set the whole thing up to provide some sort of villain for the populace? Why did they need to considering they already had a ton of control? Why did they even need her to write her declarations, let alone release them to everyone? Was union actually always working for the government and not really a rebellion? Mitchell shows the horror of this world and its unbridled captitalism, yet implies that there is no escape?

The government was afraid of dissent among the lower strata of Purebloods, so they wanted to set up a fake revolution and story in order to define the Fabricants as a dangerous force that must be strictly controlled - the "enemy" that Sonmi 451 says all such predatory states need for stability. Having a huge public trial and the Declarations helped to drive that home, so in the short term the conspiracy was a success (Sonmi 451 mentions that it allowed them to pass stricter laws, such as the Fabricant Xpiry Act).

Union was always working for the government, or at least it's implied. Sonmi 451 outright says that it's something that Unanimity runs in order to keep an eye on the socially discontented people who join its ranks. Xi Li was just an unfortunate guy caught in a greater scheme.

The ending is all about the "escape" from Corpocracy. As Sonmi says, the Juche's end-game was the creation of a enemy that would help to strengthen its support among the Purebloods while further suppressing the Fabricants - but what happens after the end-game? Her Declarations were out there, being discussed and available for many ascending Fabricants and sympathetic Purebloods with the "spark of conscience" mentioned by Zach'ry and Adam Ewing. Sooner or later, some of them tried to topple the system (a system in which the Purebloods no longer how to do any of the basic things necessary for survival).

I presume that that was the death of Nea So Copros. It was already becoming more and more fragile and unstable as the deadlands advanced and the environment degraded, and any instability caused by rebelling Fabricants and discontented Purebloods caused it to buckle and collapse (which in turn allowed for the whole country to eventually degrade into a deadland by the time that Meronym and Zach'ry are around).

For slooshes crossing basically the barbarians take over in the end and the Prussians all die out due to some mysterious virus? The end implies that zachry ends up back in Hawaii somehow though and nothing ever changes?

Zach'ry finds himself a new home amongst the kayak people who rescued him, and dies peacefully in old age on a different island.

I wouldn't say that "nothing changes", but as Adam Ewing says, change is difficult and easy to set-back. The peaceful civilization of the Valley Folk was destroyed in mere days by the savage, predatory Kona, but perhaps the efforts of the last surviving Prescients will have an effect on the society they were trying to help.

[Racker]

I looked up the quote again:

Literally all of the main characters, except one, are reincarnations of the same soul in different bodies throughout the novel identified by a birthmark...that's just a symbol really of the universality of human nature. The title itself "Cloud Atlas," the cloud refers to the ever changing manifestations of the Atlas, which is the fixed human nature which is always thus and ever shall be. So the book's theme is predacity, the way individuals prey on individuals, groups on groups, nations on nations, tribes on tribes. So I just take this theme and in a sense reincarnate that theme in another context...

Doesn't Zach theorize in his story that people can reincarnate into different points in time, in the future or the past? It's one of the reasons he hesitates to kill the sleeping Kona; he could be killing his own reincarnated soul.

Side note: I am pumped to see Hugo Weaving as Bill Smoke. That character made me think of Hugo Weaving as Agent Smith, so I know that he will nail the role.

I actually pictured Smoke as looking similar to actor Robert Davi, for some reason.

[Crown]

Doesn't Zach theorize in his story that people can reincarnate into different points in time, in the future or the past? It's one of the reasons he hesitates to kill the sleeping Kona; he could be killing his own reincarnated soul.

I believe you are right. I need to re-read the book again soon. It's been a month or so since I finished it and I'm still hyped about it.

[Spring Bass]

The stories take place in different "times", but I think it's more like an "alternate reality" situation. Otherwise, the exception to reincarnation would have to be Timothy Cavendish, since he was alive at the same time as Luisa Rey. I don't think he's the exception, though - he has the birthmark, and there are similarities between him and some of the earlier characters (particularly Frobisher). I think Zach'ry is the exception. His son mentions that Meronym had the birth mark, and he's the flip-side of Adam Ewing at the apex of the story (he's the "savage" having an encounter with the "civilized" person).

I can't believe I didn't appreciate the significance of the Mitchell's statement about "predacity" (individuals prey upon individuals, groups upon groups, nations upon nations). It actually describes the structure of the story. The stories are arranged in a pyramid, with Ewing and Frobisher being the examples of "Individuals", Luisa Rey and Cavendish as "Group" predation, and finally the apex of the story with Sonmi and Zach'ry representing "Nations" predation. Then it climbs back down, down to the "Individual" level where Mitchell makes his point about how it ultimately comes back to belief and choice by individual people.

I believe you are right. I need to re-read the book again soon. It's been a month or so since I finished it and I'm still hyped about it.

Same here. Re-reading it is like re-reading one of the ASOIAF novels - you start noticing tons of little details that you missed on the first read-through, but which now stand out because you know the whole context of the story.

[Crown]

Same here. Re-reading it is like re-reading one of the ASOIAF novels - you start noticing tons of little details that you missed on the first read-through, but which now stand out because you know the whole context of the story.

Have you read Mitchell's other works (number9dream, The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet, etc)? If yes, are they as good as Cloud Atlas?

[Spring Bass]

Have you read Mitchell's other works (number9dream, The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet, etc)? If yes, are they as good as Cloud Atlas?

I've got Thousand Autumns checked out as an e-book from the library, but I haven't started it yet. I plan to very soon. Other than that and Cloud Atlas, no.

[Horza]

Have you read Mitchell's other works (number9dream, The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet, etc)? If yes, are they as good as Cloud Atlas?

In order of publication:

Ghostwritten - his first novel and a spectacular mess. It's fun, but it's all over the place. We see a lot of the features (weird authorial voice, shifting perspectives, cosmic co-incidences, layers of detail) that Mitchell will combine masterfully in Cloud Atlas but the execution is a long way off.

number9dream - a bit more focused. Owes something to Murakami (possibly an apology). IIRC a Cloud Atlas character crops up in this one but buggered if I can remember who. Another one for the re-read pile.

Black Swan Green - semi-autobiographical bildungsroman, eschews wacky happenings across time and space for wacky happenings in High Thatcherite Southwest England. My favourite after Cloud Atlas.

The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet - I didn't enjoy this as much as any of the above. I don't know why.

[red snow]

Started reading this on the train yesterday figuring it would help me decide whether to watch the movie. Only read the opening segments of first two characters but it's strangely interesting so far. Ben Whishaw should do an excellent job of playing robert forbrisher.

So far it's strangely enjoyable even though the content of the stories aren't my thing.

[Crown]

Started reading this on the train yesterday figuring it would help me decide whether to watch the movie. Only read the opening segments of first two characters but it's strangely interesting so far. Ben Whishaw should do an excellent job of playing robert forbrisher.

So far it's strangely enjoyable even though the content of the stories aren't my thing.

The stories on its own (especially Ewing's) are not really interesting (although Sonmi and Zachry are really interesting on its own). However, when you read it all together it will really be worth it! Check in here regularly, I'm interested to read your thoughts as you read the book.

[Eageralto]

Moriori = Children of the Forest? I can't help but wonder...