Moments of Foreshadowing 2

[Ice Turtle]

“No,” Aeron Damphair declared. “He must be given to the god. The old way.”

What does it matter? Dead is dead. “Take him, then.”

“You will come as well. You command here. The offering should come from you.”

That was more than Theon could stomach. “You are the priest, Uncle, I leave the god to you. Do me the same kindness and leave the battles to me.

I'm sure there is a foreshadowing about Theon's eventual execution by Stannis somewhere in this.

[ARYa_Nym]

Did Martin say that in an interview or where did you get the idea? Was not my impression at all.

Yes. Sansa was an after thought.

(3) Arya was one of the first characters created. Sansa came about as a total opposite b/c too many of the Stark family members were getting along and familes aren't like that. Thus, Sansa was created; he ended by saying they have deep issues to work out.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Keplers_and_Codys_Signings_California_November_9_and_11/

Hence my belief that if Arya dies it has nothing to do with Sansa at all or a reflection on which character is right or uses their method of strength better. He most likely had it roughly planned from the beginning. Most of the perceived foreshadowing is early on.

But my main argument for Arya's death as the final Troll-Martin-moment is the one you already hinted at: Sansa has a shitload of work waiting for her come spring - if there are any pieces left (and I think there will be, Martin promised a bittersweet ending, not unremitting misery), who else would put them together? Arya in contrast will feel rather lost. War has a way of ruining certain people for peace and Arya's just the type. Catelyn saw her face in the statue of the Warrior...

There must be so many lost men/soldiers who should die and are ruined then. Why stop at a little girl?

[Sand Snake No. 9]

I'm sure there is a foreshadowing about Theon's eventual execution by Stannis somewhere in this.

The idea of sacrifice certainly rings a bell.

[NotSoSilentSister]

Yes. Sansa was an after thought.

well, you have to start somewhere and that apparently was not Sansa. But the dragons were not part of the initial inspiration either, and I wouldn't classify them as an afterthought because of that....

Hence my belief that if Arya dies it has nothing to do with Sansa at all or a reflection on which character is right or uses their method of strength better. He most likely had it roughly planned from the beginning. Most of the perceived foreshadowing is early on.

Here I agree absolutely.

There must be so many lost men/soldiers who should die and are ruined then. Why stop at a little girl?

And there are. Martin has already been showing quite a lot of them (the broken men, Septon Merribald, etc.). It heightens the verissimilitude.

[ARYa_Nym]

well, you have to start somewhere and that apparently was not Sansa. But the dragons were not part of the initial inspiration either, and I wouldn't classify them as an afterthought because of that....

I would going by the definition:

af·ter·thought/ˈaftərˌTHôt/

Noun: An item or thing that is thought of or added later.

And there are. Martin has already been showing quite a lot of them (the broken men, Septon Merribald, etc.). It heightens the verissimilitude.

I suppose I should expect his death then as well as all the other men who can't stop killing.

Anyways, this could possibly be foreshadowing that a character will like Jon's scar.

“She likes his scars, I think.”

Lady Merryweather’s dark eyes shone with mischief.

“Just so. Scars make a man look dangerous, and danger is

exciting.”

[Newstar]

Yes. Sansa was an after thought.

Thanks for clearing that up, I knew I'd seen that somewhere. Sansa does seem to be at least initially in AGOT a character built almost by negation, to be everything Arya isn't. It's nice to get confirmation of that.

Hence my belief that if Arya dies it has nothing to do with Sansa at all or a reflection on which character is right or uses their method of strength better. He most likely had it roughly planned from the beginning. Most of the perceived foreshadowing is early on.

No, I absolutely agree. I was just looking at foreshadowing hints for Arya's death and Sansa's death. If Sansa/Arya lives and the other sister dies, it won't be because one is more awesome than the other, it will be because GRRM has decided one of them will live and one of them won't, and I agree that most of the important foreshadowing seems to be near the beginning.

Jon teasing Arya about being found dead at the end of winter after sewing all winter with a needle clutched in her hands, almost immediately followed by Arya naming her sword "Needle," seems pretty straightforward as far as foreshadowing goes. Hamfisted, even. GRRM might have decided since then that she's going to get a reprieve, though.

[PatrickStormborn]

Anyways, this could possibly be foreshadowing that a character will like Jon's scar.

That quote reminds me of Dany's attraction to Daario. :cool4:

[ARYa_Nym]

That quote reminds me of Dany's attraction to Daario. :cool4:

Yes! :devil:

[PatrickStormborn]

Yes! :devil:

I think we're the only vocal Jon/Dany shippers on this forum. :P

[ARYa_Nym]

I think we're the only vocal Jon/Dany shippers on this forum. :P

There are a few others but they're hard to find. We may be the most vocal though.

[Newstar]

Should we do a round of Jon/Dany foreshadowing, then? Seems pretty obvious (starting with the most obvious and working my way down):

1. Dany's vision of blue roses growing out of an ice wall, filling the air with sweetness

2. Dany dreaming of a lover younger and better looking than Jorah, with a face she couldn't make out ("young and better looking than Jorah" admittedly doesn't narrow it down, ha!)

3. Taena's comment about the scar

4. Jon's attraction to Val (similar colouring to Dany? Reaching a little, here)

5. I thought Dany had a dream about having sex with someone cold (post-resurrection Jon?)

6. All the threes in the HoTU prophecy: Dany's been married twice, Jon could be her third (not really foreshadowing, I guess)

I'm not confident about a lot of things I predict in this series, but I am confident about this: Jon/Dany is totally happening. (All the Jon/Val stuff is a red herring. Trust.)

[ARYa_Nym]

Should we do a round of Jon/Dany foreshadowing, then? Seems pretty obvious (starting with the most obvious and working my way down):

1. Dany's vision of blue roses growing out of an ice wall, filling the air with sweetness

2. Dany dreaming of a lover younger and better looking than Jorah, with a face she couldn't make out ("young and better looking than Jorah" admittedly doesn't narrow it down, ha!)

3. Taena's comment about the scar

4. Jon's attraction to Val (similar colouring to Dany? Reaching a little, here)

5. I thought Dany had a dream about having sex with someone cold (post-resurrection Jon?)

6. All the threes in the HoTU prophecy: Dany's been married twice, Jon could be her third (not really foreshadowing, I guess)

I'm not confident about a lot of things I predict in this series, but I am confident about this: Jon/Dany is totally happening. (All the Jon/Val stuff is a red herring. Trust.)

4. Val's hair looked silver in the moonlight.

"The light of the half-moon turned Val's honey-blond hair a pale silver and left her cheeks as white as snow."

Detractors will say that Dany's hair is silver gold but let's not pretend that we don't associate Targs with silvery hair. Her hair has been called silver in the books.

2. His face was a shifting shadow.

"Sometimes she would close her eyes and dream of him, but it was never Jorah Mormont she dreamed of; her lover was always younger and more comely, though his face remained a shifting shadow."

Jon has been referred to as a shadow.

All in black, he was a shadow among shadows, dark of hair, long of face, grey of eye.

Mel says:

"Every man who walks the earth casts a shadow on the world...The moon has kissed you and etched your shadow upon the ice twenty feet tall."

The moon kissed him as well. Dany was called the moon of Drogo's life. This may be a reach but I think it parallels.

8. Mount to Love. I believe it's Ghost. Jon said that Ghost was part of him. In AGoT Dany sees a great wolf in the fire and in ADWD she hears a wolf in the distance and it makes her feel lonely.

"Off in the distance, a wolf howled. The sound made her feel sad and lonely, but no less hungry."

I think it could parallel to Luthien/Huan. Luthien was described as the most beautiful of all her people and Dany has been called the most beautiful woman in the world.

She is described as the Morning Star of the Elves, a term meaning that she was the most beautiful of all her people at the height of their glory. In contrast, Lúthien's descendant Arwen is called Evenstar, the Evening Star of the Elves, meaning that her beauty reflects that of Lúthien Tinúviel. .

Dany looks like Naerys who GRRM described as having otherworldly beauty so I see an Elven parallel.

9. Jon's time with the wildlings taught him to steal a woman.

Dany thinks the idea of Rhaegar stealing Lyanna is romantic.

"If he loved you he would come and carry you off at swordpoint, as Rhaegar carried off his northern girl..."

10. I believe a parallel here is Jon specifically wishing for a son and Dany losing one. She needs to have a living child.

[turinturambar1]

Jon's last chapter in AGOT with Old Bear

"Your brother is in the field with all the power of the north behind him.Any one of his lords bannermen command more sword than you'll find in all the Night's Watch.Why do you imagine that they need your help?Are you such a mighty warrior,or do you carry a grumkin in your pocket to magic up your sword?"

[Kittykatknits]

I think we're the only vocal Jon/Dany shippers on this forum. :P

I don't ship them but I want it to happen, mostly to annoy the Dany haters. Does that count at all?

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Jon's last chapter in AGOT with Old Bear

"Your brother is in the field with all the power of the north behind him.Any one of his lords bannermen command more sword than you'll find in all the Night's Watch.Why do you imagine that they need your help?Are you such a mighty warrior,or do you carry a grumkin in your pocket to magic up your sword?"

Put me in the jon/dany neutral camp i think it will happen, but don't ship or have anything against it

There are several references to Jon getting a magic sword, his dream, Tormund asking him if his sword can cut cold, i think there is another Mormont one. Back to Jon/Dany Hiz says he got here peace but wonders if it will be enough to get her to wed him and she says she may just require a magic sword

Another to the list, Dany promises Jorah a great two handed great sword as a bridal gift whose like the world has never seen, Jorah finally gets longclaw from Jon when they're married which while not two handed will have been made famous by Jon

Again, i don't ship but I troll the books hard for foreshadowing, but admittedly not as hard or as insightful as Tze

[Scarlet Seastar]

I used to think that the title of the series meant that Jon and Dany will somehow end up together.

Afterwards, I figured R+L=J, and I thought that it was only about Jon.

Could be both though. I am not a Dany/Jon shipper, but I think it very likely to happen. I have almost accepted is a fact.

[Scipio Africanus]

I don't ship them but I want it to happen, mostly to annoy the Dany haters. Does that count at all?

You people are cruel, hasn't Jon been through enough without being saddled up with some chick who thinks people like Khal Drogo and Daario are "kewl"?

Val has way more class then giggeling schoolgirl Dany. Poor Jon...

[PatrickStormborn]

You people are cruel, hasn't Jon been through enough without being saddled up with some chick who thinks people like Khal Drogo and Daario are "kewl"?

Val has way more class then giggeling schoolgirl Dany. Poor Jon...

Val, the woman who started screaming about a little girl who was unfortunate enough to be scarred by greyscale as an infant? Yeah, she's a classy lady.

I don't ship them but I want it to happen, mostly to annoy the Dany haters. Does that count at all?

Oho, that always counts. Welcome aboard. :devil:

[Franz95]

In the yard below, Rickon ran with the wolves.

Bran watched from his window seat. Wherever the boy went, Grey Wind was there first, loping ahead to cut him off, until Rickon saw him, screamed in delight, and went pelting off in another direction. Shaggydog ran at his heels, spinning and snapping if the other wolves came too close. His fur had darkened until he was all black, and his eyes were green fire. Bran's Summer came last.

I think this foreshadows Rickon becoming Lord of Winterfell after Robb and before Bran.

[Scarlet Seastar]

I think this foreshadows Rickon becoming Lord of Winterfell after Robb and before Bran.

So, little Rickon won't get to see the next spring, or will he give up his seat to Bran?