Theory on Maggy's prophecy and new definition for 'Volanqar'

[Hodor vinegar strokes]

Would she really set King's Landing on fire, didn't they use up all the Wilfyre

[mankytoes]

Surely it should be Tyrion, the one person no reader expects?

[AlexandrosStark]

The volonqar is probably Jamie. Jamie and Cercie are twins, but they were not born at the exact same time. Instead we know that Cercei was born first and Jamie followed. So Jamie IS technically a younger brother.

Besides it will be a stunning tragic ending for Cercei to die at the hands of Jamie, making it that much more believable - and GRRM style - to me. It would be a much more powerful scene than being killed by Stannis for example.

Why would Jamie kill Cercei? He learns of something terrible that she did. And Cercei is the type of person that is perfectly capable of doing terrible things that can push anyone over the edge...

[Littlefinger's dagger]

Here's an idea: Osney Kettleblack. Younger (youngest) brother, check. Prior intimacy with Cercei, check.

He has already strangled/smothered a High Septon. In possession of both hands, currently in KL, definitely strong enough. The biggest problem I see is that he is currently awaiting execution himself for killing the HS, though as it was on Cercei's orders he definitely has a reason to have a grudge against her now.

Just thinking out loud here.

[kav2001c]

This has always bothered me.

Maggy prophecy seems to clearly imply (at least in Cersei's mind) Tyrion will kill her

Even Tyrion himself made a similar pledge about her joy turning to ash and knowing he was behind it (but I think he never says he would kill the kids or Cersei)

But if true, what is the point of Jaime wavering?

Maybe Tyrion is somehow responsible for Tommen & Myrcella deaths (INDIRECTLY; eg sending Myrcella to Dorne causes her death + something he did in King Landing results in Tommen ultimate death)

Cersei will flip out and try to kill Tyrion

Then Jamie will save Tyrion by killing Cersei

[Tyler Stark]

I believe Volenqar means little brother... but I still support your theory, Cersi once laments that she was born first and Jamie second, so if she was a male she would be the rightful heir to Casterly Rock

[starwalker]

This is my first try at this, and i just came up with this looking at the prophecy.

Cersei:''Will the king and i have children?''

Maggy:''Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you.''

Maggy: ''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the volanqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

^ I think looking at this chronologically, it implies that all of Cersei's kids will die before the Volanqar kills her. So this could suggest Tommen and Myrcella will soon die, which will surely drown Cersei in tears.

As for the volanqar, it is said to mean little brother, but i think that is a big red herring. I might be over-thinking, but notice how it says 'The volanqar'. Why would Maggy call it 'The Little brother'?

''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the little brother shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

it would make much more sense for it to be 'Your little brother', wouldn't it? What is my point? My point is that looking at the whole passage, it makes sense that the volanqar could in fact mean father instead of little brother. In the passage the kids are mentioned, and then 'the volanqar', i think 'the father' would fit in perfectly, after mentioning the kids.

Read it like this. Maggy: ''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the father shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

It also makes sense cause before in the same prophecy, Maggy mentions that Robert will have many kids, and Cersei will have three, and then she mentions how the kids will have golden crowns and golden shrouds, but whats missing? The father. The whole part of the prophecy seems to be missing who will be the father to these children. Cersei asked about the children she will have, don't you think Maggy would have found out that her children will actually only be through incest? which is why i'm pretty sure 'The Volanqar' means the father (Jaime) and not little brother, which doesn't fit in the passage at all

How did i do?

to take it one step farther, it will mean that all her kids will die with crowns. So, either tommen dies first, then myrcella, being tommens heir. Or, myrcella is eventually crowned by dorne, and then it doesnt matter when either dies.

[starwalker]

I believe Volenqar means little brother... but I still support your theory, Cersi once laments that she was born first and Jamie second, so if she was a male she would be the rightful heir to Casterly Rock

i too believe volanquar means litttle brother. if jaime will be her killer, then maybe stoneheart sends him to kill her, and due to his newfound honor, he does it. but srsly tho, this whole thing smacks of catering to the publishers wishes to prolong the series and make as much money for themselves as spossible. everyone here speculating is only addidng to the wait time for wow. fubsmmfc

[libertine]

There are just too many possibilities. I'd say about 50% of the male characters are in fact little brothers, not to mention that the term valonquar might even be gender-neutral as someone on this forum already suggested.

Well, my money is still on Jaime, although it's the most obvious choice. But it's just a feeling, because it would fit so neatly. Let's say, after losing Tommen and Myrcella, she's trying to burn King's Landing with wildfyre (we all know about her affection for burning things) and Jaime prevents that from happening by killing her, which makes him a kinslayer as well. He will be resented for all eternity, because people don't know, he saved the city (twice) but he still gets a nice ending for his redemption arc. Shortly after he will die, which will either end the Lannister line for once and for all (Well, if Tyrion dies at some point as well).

Would be kinda "bittersweet", like GRRM said the ending would be.

[starwalker]

Here's an idea: Osney Kettleblack. Younger (youngest) brother, check. Prior intimacy with Cercei, check.

He has already strangled/smothered a High Septon. In possession of both hands, currently in KL, definitely strong enough. The biggest problem I see is that he is currently awaiting execution himself for killing the HS, though as it was on Cercei's orders he definitely has a reason to have a grudge against her now.

Just thinking out loud here.

thats stupid. i dont buy into these prophecy things. i think they were deliberatley set to drive people crazy.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I thought that the volanquar could be The Hound.

He served as the personal guard of Joffrey and before that perhaps Cersei? So its like he's almost part of the family. That's a weak connection but if he ends up being the Grave Digger (which come on, he obviously is) then wouldn't he be a brother? A younger brother of the faith? He is working underneath the Elder Brother, so it would make sense to call hima younger brother. Also if Robert Strong is UnGregor and the Hound is going to get revenge couldn't it be in Cersei's trial? We know Robert Strong will be Cersei's champion. So if The Hound is the Champion of The Faith, then he could both kill his brother (which I so want him to do) and by that kill Cersei in the process. Anyone else feel the same way?

I think this is a great idea!

[Watermelon Knight]

Edit: Expanded theory in new post.

[Stig Johansen]

The prophecy says Cersei will be choked by the hands of a "younger sibling". Jamie only has one hand. He is out of the game for that one. My bet is on Stannis.

[Always Winter]

After skimming through this post I feel like there are a lot of good suggestions.

My personal favorites:

- Jaime, though something drastic needs to happen for it to come to strangling. As of now it only seems appropriate for him to break up with her, not kill her. As someone mentioned earlier the threat of wildfire might cause him to strangle her, though it may not be as literal as that. Wildfire also brings things full circle for Jaime the Kingslayer.

- Loras. Cersei's actions may lead to Margery's death (the trial maybe), which would probably earn some response from Loras (assuming he can fight). Perhaps some Tyrell takeover should they side once again with the Targaryens.

- Tyrion seems to be the obvious choice, though if he is the valonquar I hope it will not be what we expected.

Iffy:

- Stannis seems to be busy up north at the moment and I don't see him marching on King's Landing with the Others approaching the wall.

- Benjen. He has no ties to Cersei whatsoever and foreshadowing has not suggested him throttling her.

- Tonmen since he has to supposedly die before her. Wight Tonmen however...nah.

- Sandor. Status currently unknown and his beef is more with his brother rather than the queen regent. I hardly recall them having any sort of dialogue.

- Gerion Lannister. Haven't heard from him at all beyond his disappearance and supposed death.

[Stig Johansen]

Bran could do it too, by warging into Ser Robert Strong.

[Amris]

Maggy's use of the Valyrian word - when the rest of her prophecy wasn't in Valyrian - must mean something. Why Valyrian for younger brother? GRRM does not just pull something like that sudden change of language out of his hat!

To me this implies that the younger brother who'll strangle Cersei is of Valyrian stock.

And this in turn would fit if either Tyrion (if he is the valonqar) or the twins (if it's Jaime) were actually Aerys II's children with Joanna instead of Tywin's, a possibility which has been discussed in various threads.

Jaime is the more likely candidate for actually being a half-Targ IMO because:

1) Genna Lannister has told Jaime that Tyrion, not Jaime is Tywin's son.

2) Whenever a Targ is born the gods toss a coin. Half of them are mad. Of the twins one is mad, one isn't.

3) Cersei shows a penchant for wildfire, just like Aerys did. She seems real crazed while she has the Tower of the Hand burned down for instance.

4) The Twins show a natural affinity for incest.

5) Tyrion is the more obvious choice on first glance with the hatred between him and Cersei being stressed all the time. That actually makes him less likely IMO although admittedly does not rule him out.

6) Jaime would be the more poetic choice, having come into life together with her - and especially - loving her. It has been rightly pointed out in this thread that strangulation fits a crime of passion, not calculation. And, of course, Jaime is her younger brother.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: spelling

[Watermelon Knight]

The Valonqar is the most famous little brother of Westeros, the little brother who lives to vanquish his evil monster big brother.

Sandor Clegane.

When the faith learn of Cersei's undead Ser Gregor champion they will piss their breeches and then contact all of their leaders in the realm to find a suitable champion. Sandor Clegane will be sent to serve as their champion. In combat he will dismember undead Ser Gregor, rip off his helm, wrap his hands around his re-animated neck, and squeeze his head off to finally kill him. Metaphorically he kills Cersei with his hands around her throat.

Cersei will need to watch her kiddies die before the fight. The Sandsnakes and a little poison should do the trick.

[hales]

I had been thinking that since Maggy was talking about Cersei's children in that sentence, that the little brother would be the little brother out of her children, Tommen. I think Tommen is going to kill Cersei. Initially I thought the Valonqar could be Jaime, but he only has one hand, so.

[Benjamin F. Case]

I can never decide which people are truly perfect candidates and who will be paired in this prophecy.
Valonqar:

Tyrion, Jaime, Sandor, Aegon.

Young Queen:
Sansa, Margaery, Arianne, Daenarys.

[allabouthp]

Who told Cersei that Valonqar meant little brother? I seem to have lost book 4. You can find the prophecy verbatim online but I wanted to look again at how Cersei/the reader comes to know the meaning of valonqar. Also if it says anything else about the valonqar. If anyone could help me out that would be great. TIA.