Theory on Maggy's prophecy and new definition for 'Volanqar'

[DExit]

@Watcher_inthe_Woods: this could be true, the word "the" in the volanqar, would make sense. But then, it could virtually be any male who has an older sibling...

What intrigues me most: "gold shall be their crowns" & "gold their shrouds". Joffrey was king and died being one, Joffrey is king and could easily die being king, but Myrcella is not a queen, and with the whole Dorne+Aegon, I don't see this happening.

However, they all have/had the GOLDEN hair of the Lannisters- when Cersei was shorn by the septas, wasn't there a line something like: "I lost my crown"?- the only question remains is why someone wanted to kill Myrcella??

[The King of the Night]

another possible volonqar is the second sons... dont know how they could have a part in this but its almost an exact translation.

[Queen of Winter]

Back to the original point. Cersei was born first, with Jaime following, holding on to her heel. He IS the younger brother.

Yes, and you could say that Jaime might turn out to be Cerseis' "Achilles' Heel"--him possibly having something to do with her downfall.... ;)

[Sheogorath]

I have no new evidence to support this ; but, I think Jamie will kill cersei. I also think they will die together not because Cersei is prophetic, but there seems to be foreshadowing on it. I also think that they will die together because it is very "Romeo and Juliette" and GRRM uses a lot of external parallels for ex: Jon Snow got "Caesared" at the end of DWD lol

[bogdevil]

However, they all have/had the GOLDEN hair of the Lannisters- when Cersei was shorn by the septas, wasn't there a line something like: "I lost my crown"?- the only question remains is why someone wanted to kill Myrcella??

I was about to point this out. so much attention is being given to "the volanquer" part of the prophecy and everyone seems to take it as fact that all three children will be made king/queen before they die. However, i think the "gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds" part is a red herring that Cersei misinterprets. I think that it IS referring to their hair color. After all, them having blonde hair was what started Jon Arryn and the Ned down the twincest rabbit hole. It is the defining Lannister characteristic that becomes the westerosi paternity test proving the children are not Robert's. The second part I think refers to the fact that when they die, they will be thought of/known to be Lannisters and not Baratheons.

It was also Stannis (i.e. Robert's little brother) that sent letters all over the realm declaring Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen Lannister bastards.

[Patrick Tully]

Just a little thought about Myrcella. She could potentially live and wear a golden hood/veil to cover her disfigurement. Her wearing something like that would scare the hell out of Cersei too.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Just a little thought about Myrcella. She could potentially live and wear a golden hood/veil to cover her disfigurement. Her wearing something like that would scare the hell out of Cersei too.

Sweet, let's get her in a Phantom of the opera Mask!!!

[maarsen]

Changed my mind. Tyrion joined the Second Sons. Remember the old saying. When you owe the bank 10000 dollars the bank owns you. When you owe 10,000,000 dollars you own the bank. Tyrion will own the Second Sons.

[Petyr Baller]

Little brother = Littlefinger?

The five fingers are sometimes imagined as family members.

[MindLikeWarp]

''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the volanqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

It could be the volanqar means Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella's little brother (one of Robert's 16 bastards). Which means Tommen and Myrcella could live to be a lot older, but the lack of the 5 year gap could mess that up.

Most likely it is Jaime...literally with his own hands.

[DExit]

It could be the volanqar means Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella's little brother (one of Robert's 16 bastards). Which means Tommen and Myrcella could live to be a lot older, but the lack of the 5 year gap could mess that up

Robert's bastards are not related to Cersei's children, that connection is rather far-fetched.

[MindLikeWarp]

Robert's bastards are not related to Cersei's children, that connection is rather far-fetched.

Good point. It doesn't tie in. I still think that it being "the volanqar" instead of "your volanqar" is significant.

[WhineHaus]

I could see Cersei killing her own children out of desperation and madness, and likewise I could see Jaime (the volanqar) killing Cersei upon seeing what she's done to their children.

Remember the Blackwater episode of GoT? Cersei thought that Stannis was sure to win. While sitting on the iron throne, and before Tywin strolls in, Cersei had Tommen on her lap and was about to poison him with the Tears of Lys rather than let him be killed or captured. It's very likely that Cersei and the Lannisters are finding themselves in another dire wartime situation in WoW or aDoS (against Aegon, or against the Northerners), and she might resort to the same sort of prideful madness. I know the whole TV show vs. the book thing, but keep in mind that the producers DO know the main plot points of the entire series..

On that note, the "younger, more beautiful queen" could be Sansa raising an army to get her revenge.

[DExit]

Will it be Aegon at the doorstep of KL? Cersei puts tommen down out of mercy, I can see that happening. But for Jaimie to avenge Tommen, the treath to Tommens life must fail at the attempt: otherwise Cersei would have been right to kill him off.

My bet is on Aegon/the faith, arriane will be the younger queen in that case.

[aryagonnakill]

I could see Cersei killing her own children out of desperation and madness, and likewise I could see Jaime (the volanqar) killing Cersei upon seeing what she's done to their children.

Remember the Blackwater episode of GoT? Cersei thought that Stannis was sure to win. While sitting on the iron throne, and before Tywin strolls in, Cersei had Tommen on her lap and was about to poison him with the Tears of Lys rather than let him be killed or captured. It's very likely that Cersei and the Lannisters are finding themselves in another dire wartime situation in WoW or aDoS (against Aegon, or against the Northerners), and she might resort to the same sort of prideful madness. I know the whole TV show vs. the book thing, but keep in mind that the producers DO know the main plot points of the entire series..

On that note, the "younger, more beautiful queen" could be Sansa raising an army to get her revenge.

Essence of nightshade, the tears of lys is what killed Jon Aryn slowly and painfully.

[greywindsrage]

Cersei came out first then Jaime. Thus making him her "little" brother

[VladofWallachia]

Until now, Cersei has been wrong about pretty much everything (aka screwing up royally after Tywin's death). So it makes sense that she misinterpreted the prophecy too. The Valonquar will most definitely be Jaime. He is her younger brother, her only younger brother as far as she is concerned, thus explaining the "The" in the prophecy.

[Teren_Kanan]

A simple list of candidates I could see working from a storyline perspective.

In no particular order.

Tyrion - Seems way too obvious because it's what Cersei already believes.

Jaime - Seems very plausible but also a tad bit cliche of a twist. The use of the word "The" in the prophecy as opposed to "your" opens up more possibilities.

Stannis - Seems plausible as well, and makes sense on several levels. Sets up a somewhat double twist (for readers), making the "Jaime was born first" comment a Red Herring.

Sandor - Seems less plausible from a character connection perspective (Sandor doesn't have a lot to with Cersei), but imo could fit into the "Queen far more beautiful than you" part of it, if he manages to connect with Sansa again, and Sansa is the queen in the prophecy. Again, not the most likely scenario imo, but it'd work. I could see Sansa + Sandor vs Cersei + Gregor(stein).

I can't think of anyone else who would make sense.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

A simple list of candidates I could see working from a storyline perspective.

In no particular order.

Tyrion - Seems way too obvious because it's what Cersei already believes.

Jaime - Seems very plausible but also a tad bit cliche of a twist. The use of the word "The" in the prophecy as opposed to "your" opens up more possibilities.

Stannis - Seems plausible as well, and makes sense on several levels. Sets up a somewhat double twist (for readers), making the "Jaime was born first" comment a Red Herring.

Sandor - Seems less plausible from a character connection perspective (Sandor doesn't have a lot to with Cersei), but imo could fit into the "Queen far more beautiful than you" part of it, if he manages to connect with Sansa again, and Sansa is the queen in the prophecy. Again, not the most likely scenario imo, but it'd work. I could see Sansa + Sandor vs Cersei + Gregor(stein).

I can't think of anyone else who would make sense.

What if it's Arya with a guys face on? she is someones little sibling, while she is a girl, she could easily be disguised as a guy by the time she makes it back to Cersei, and Cersei is on Arya's list, and I don't think Arya will just forget all those ppl after she becomes a faceless man.

[team wench]

I believe the golden crowns refers to the children blonde hair and royal status, plus Jofrey and Tommen were/are kings, and Myrcella was attempted to become one at Dorne (maybe they`ll do it or no) and one way or another that will lead to her death (wheter she dies of dornish fever or murdered)

Cersei then will kill Tommen (becouse she is crazy probably, might confuse him with someone else, or just have delirious tremens and do it)

Then Jaime willl find out and kill her (mercy probably,he won`t stand seeing her like that)

Finally Jaime will die battling to The Others, Tyrion survives and ....

of course, Brienne survives and carries his seed in her belly! :drool:

Jaime IS the valonqar becouse he IS her younger brother, and the fact he was born hold to her heels says something: HE, just as with acchiles, is her weakness, her destiny, her death