Theory on Maggy's prophecy and new definition for 'Volanqar'

[the old dude]

I don't think Martin's use of the word "the" was insignificant nor misdirection. I think it was a clue that it would not be her brother but a younger brother of someone else. Presumably the little brother of someone close to her who has no love for her. At the end of aDwD the only person who fits the bill is gravedigger Clegane. Perhaps Sandor will be the chamipon for the faith and kill headless-greg then act as Cersei's executioner. Or perhaps Cersei wins her trial and their paths cross afterward when zombie-Gregor escorts Cersei to Casterely Rock. No matter how you slice it I think Sandor will be the Volanqar.

However, I may be overthinking. If that's case, then I vote Tyrion.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Jaime is 100% going to kill Cersei, he is her younger brother too.

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

I like the idea that the Valonqar could be the company of sellswords called the second sons, or one of them, which someone mentioned earlier. Perhaps in an attack on Casterley rock. Jamie seems most likely though.i t would be as vague in 'prophecy speak' as The sea coming to Winterfell.

[aryagonnakill]

I don't think Martin's use of the word "the" was insignificant nor misdirection. I think it was a clue that it would not be her brother but a younger brother of someone else. Presumably the little brother of someone close to her who has no love for her. At the end of aDwD the only person who fits the bill is gravedigger Clegane. Perhaps Sandor will be the chamipon for the faith and kill headless-greg then act as Cersei's executioner. Or perhaps Cersei wins her trial and their paths cross afterward when zombie-Gregor escorts Cersei to Casterely Rock. No matter how you slice it I think Sandor will be the Volanqar.

However, I may be overthinking. If that's case, then I vote Tyrion.

Even with that interpretation Stannis, Rickon, Loras, and Aegon if he is real all fit that description.

[CKPS63]

The "Jaime is the valonquar" notion is certainly a good one, but has been kicked around enough on these threads that I would be disappointed if that's actually how it turns out. Alternative interpretations? "The valonquar" is mentioned in the same prophecy as the three royal children, so maybe Tommen is the valonquar and manages to kill Cersei as, or right before, he dies -- that would certainly be an ironic surprise. Or maybe it's the youngest of Robert's bastards? Or, if R+ J really does equal Jon, wouldn't that would make Jon Aegon's "little brother" (with the involvement of Targaryen blood underscored by Maggy's use of the Valyrian term "valonquar")? How about Rickon? He certainly will have a moltive when he gets a little older.

[Bellatrix Stark]

I like the idea that the Valonqar could be the company of sellswords called the second sons, or one of them, which someone mentioned earlier. Perhaps in an attack on Casterley rock.

I like that, I like that a lot.

Everyone in this thread has some valid points. Personally, I lean more towards Jamie or Tyrion being the volanqar. It's hard to make a sound assumption when TWoW/ ADoS isn't out, so we have no idea what is to come for all the possible volanqars.

But here's a random- what about Devan Seaworth? He's a younger brother.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I don't think Martin's use of the word "the" was insignificant nor misdirection. I think it was a clue that it would not be her brother and a younger brother of someone else. Presumably the little brother of someone close to her who has no love for her. At the end of aDwD the only person who fits the bill is gravedigger Clegane. Perhaps Sandor will be the chamipon for the faith and kill headless-greg then act as Cersei's executioner. Or perhaps Cersei wins her trial and their paths cross afterward when zombie-Gregor escorts Cersei to Casterely Rock. No matter how you slice it I think Sandor will be the Volanqar.

However, I may be overthinking. If that's case, then I vote Tyrion.

You were so close. It is Robert that she had no love for, and Stannis that will strangle her.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Sorry, but i dont get why there is so much fuzz about the "valonqar". I thought the book was clear about its meaning "Little Brother"...So it could only be either Tyrion or Jaime. I am betting for Jaime :bowdown: it would be a total slap on Cersei's face as she is sure that Tyrion will cast her downfall and at the end it would be Jaime!!! sorry about my english...

Yes I agree, Jaime is going to murder Cersei very soon. it is the only thing that can happen. they are going to die together as they were born together. he will kill her and the unGregor will kill him.

[The Chequered Raven]

I like the idea that the Valonqar could be the company of sellswords called the second sons, or one of them, which someone mentioned earlier. Perhaps in an attack on Casterley rock. Jamie seems most likely though.i t would be as vague in 'prophecy speak' as The sea coming to Winterfell.

Nice idea, indeed. Like it!

[the old dude]

Even with that interpretation Stannis, Rickon, Loras, and Aegon if he is real all fit that description.

You were so close. It is Robert that she had no love for, and Stannis that will strangle her.

Hi all. Here are my thougthts on why it won't be any of those folks.

Aegon - We don't know if he actually is any one's little brother to begin with.

- It seems as if he will be busy with Dorne and the storm lands for a little while at least.

Rickon - He is about 5 or 6. Is he physically able to choke a grown woman?

- Presumably, he is not even on the same landmass. Will they ever come in contact?

Loras - Interesting possibility, but we don't know where he is or how his health is. The septa talking to Cersei was hushed before we could find out.

- This is purely a matter of perspective however I never felt his "role" as anybody's little brother was highlighted enough for it to be him. When I think of Loras I think of Margies older bro not Garlan's younger bro. (notice the TV show)

Stannis - He is too far away with too much on his plate.

- It has snowed all the way to KL so the road would not be easy to traverse.

- He has a war to fight and a completely unsettled diplomatic scene in the North. I doubt he would leave before it is all sorted out.

- Even then he would still have the threat of the others to worry about before heading south.

- His wife, heir, and Mel are all at the wall. Jon's "death" at the hand of his own men leaves Stannis' quasi-alliance with the NW

on uncertain terms. He may have to head north before going south.

So here is why I think it will be Sandor.

First off, I presume that Robert Strong is/was Gregor. Secondly, the gravedigger wasn't a lame random dog lover but Sandor recovering from his wounds. Lastly, notice how i think some of the above aren't the volanqar because thy won't get to her in time. That is because I also have a feeling that Cersei's character line is leading to an end. As much as I love to hate her there is so much going on in this world that I wouldn't miss her If she dies in the first half of tWoW.

When we last saw Cersei, wasn't she being held by Strong and finding out that he was to be her Champion. And who in the Westros wants Gregor dead more than Sandor. I don't think his presence on the quiet isle was the start of a new life as a clergyman. His hatred for, and desire to kill his older brother was rather explicit. Didn't he have a conversation with Arya or Sansa about it? As long as Cersei is guarded by Robert Strong, Sandor will be attracted to her like a magnet.

Of all the little brothers out there he has the best opportunity. He has no ties or responsibilities elsewhere and can try for Gregor as soon as he likes. Aside from Aegon and possibly Loras he was also the closest by last we saw him. He has the means to reach her, a motive to wind up in close proximity to her, the battle prowess to fight and kill Gregor, and the internal rage to choke her out.

As for Jamie and Tyrion....this post is long enough as it is.

And last but not least. I honestly know a Spanish guy named Sandy and nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. :drunk:

[aryagonnakill]

Hi all. Here are my thougthts on why it won't be any of those folks.

Aegon - We don't know if he actually is any one's little brother to begin with.

- It seems as if he will be busy with Dorne and the storm lands for a little while at least.

Rickon - He is about 5 or 6. Is he physically able to choke a grown woman?

- Presumably, he is not even on the same landmass. Will they ever come in contact?

Loras - Interesting possibility, but we don't know where he is or how his health is. The septa talking to Cersei was hushed before we could find out.

- This is purely a matter of perspective however I never felt his "role" as anybody's little brother was highlighted enough for it to be him. When I think of Loras I think of Margies older bro not Garlan's younger bro. (notice the TV show)

Stannis - He is too far away with too much on his plate.

- It has snowed all the way to KL so the road would not be easy to traverse.

- He has a war to fight and a completely unsettled diplomatic scene in the North. I doubt he would leave before it is all sorted out.

- Even then he would still have the threat of the others to worry about before heading south.

- His wife, heir, and Mel are all at the wall. Jon's "death" at the hand of his own men leaves Stannis' quasi-alliance with the NW

on uncertain terms. He may have to head north before going south.

So here is why I think it will be Sandor.

First off, I presume that Robert Strong is/was Gregor. Secondly, the gravedigger wasn't a lame random dog lover but Sandor recovering from his wounds. Lastly, notice how i think some of the above aren't the volanqar because thy won't get to her in time. That is because I also have a feeling that Cersei's character line is leading to an end. As much as I love to hate her there is so much going on in this world that I wouldn't miss her If she dies in the first half of tWoW.

When we last saw Cersei, wasn't she being held by Strong and finding out that he was to be her Champion. And who in the Westros wants Gregor dead more than Sandor. I don't think his presence on the quiet isle was the start of a new life as a clergyman. His hatred for, and desire to kill his older brother was rather explicit. Didn't he have a conversation with Arya or Sansa about it? As long as Cersei is guarded by Robert Strong, Sandor will be attracted to her like a magnet.

Of all the little brothers out there he has the best opportunity. He has no ties or responsibilities elsewhere and can try for Gregor as soon as he likes. Aside from Aegon and possibly Loras he was also the closest by last we saw him. He has the means to reach her, a motive to wind up in close proximity to her, the battle prowess to fight and kill Gregor, and the internal rage to choke her out.

As for Jamie and Tyrion....this post is long enough as it is.

And last but not least. I honestly know a Spanish guy named Sandy and nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. :drunk:

The only thing I have to say is that the last time we see Cersei is with Tommen from Kevins Epilogue.

[the old dude]

The only thing I have to say is that the last time we see Cersei is with Tommen from Kevins Epilogue.

Oh, I think you are right. I guess I should have said "Almost the last time we saw..." .

[xRobbStarkx]

I think it will end up being Jaime that ends up killing Cersei. I think Cersei will do something that leads to both Tommen and Myrcella being killed and Jaime will go to confront her. Jaime will get under Cersei's skin and she will lash out at him with a dagger and mortally wound him, but as he is expiring he grabs her and chokes her to death, while whispering "Hands of gold are always cold", creating a nice parallel to Tyrion killing Shae, both killing the women they loved. They will be found embraced, both dead. Cersei seems to have very little control of her temper, which is why I think the possibility of her lashing out at Jaime when she is distraught at the deaths of her children does not seem that out of character for her. Also I'd love to see both of them die simultaneously as Cersei had thought they would, only not in the same situation she imagined/hoped.

I also liked the idea that it could be Stannis that does the deed from the Valyrian-language tied into the prophecy. There's been some great ideas on here, I've really enjoyed reading them.

[Cas Stark]

I agree it will be Jamie who kills Cersei, that will be the irony, that her entire life she has believed it would be Tyrion, the brother she hated and tormented, but it was her beautiful twin all along.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I agree it will be Jamie who kills Cersei, that will be the irony, that her entire life she has believed it would be Tyrion, the brother she hated and tormented, but it was her beautiful twin all along.

yes absolutely!

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

I think it will end up being Jaime that ends up killing Cersei. I think Cersei will do something that leads to both Tommen and Myrcella being killed and Jaime will go to confront her. Jaime will get under Cersei's skin and she will lash out at him with a dagger and mortally wound him, but as he is expiring he grabs her and chokes her to death, while whispering "Hands of gold are always cold", creating a nice parallel to Tyrion killing Shae, both killing the women they loved. They will be found embraced, both dead. Cersei seems to have very little control of her temper, which is why I think the possibility of her lashing out at Jaime when she is distraught at the deaths of her children does not seem that out of character for her. Also I'd love to see both of them die simultaneously as Cersei had thought they would, only not in the same situation she imagined/hoped.

I also liked the idea that it could be Stannis that does the deed from the Valyrian-language tied into the prophecy. There's been some great ideas on here, I've really enjoyed reading them.

It would be much better for her to realise at the point of death that he wasn't going to die along side of her, and he doesn't want to.

[Cas Stark]

It would be much better for her to realise at the point of death that he wasn't going to die along side of her, and he doesn't want to.

Eh, I just want her dead. I don't understand the level of sympathy she gets. She's a sociopath and has been since she threw her friend down the well.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Eh, I just want her dead. I don't understand the level of sympathy she gets. She's a sociopath and has been since she threw her friend down the well.

yes she has been a psycho sociopath her whole life (when she was piching little baby tyrion for the enjoyment of oberyn martell) and I don't even think 'the naked mile' was nearly bad enough for her.

However I do think that Jaime choosing big oafish Brienne over her was such a major slap in the face, I loved it! Go Jaime and Brienne!

[bent branch]

I don't think it will be Jaime who kills Cersei. The reason I think this is Cersei would get some kind of comfort having Jaime with her as she dies, even if he was the one killing her. I think Jaime won't be anywhere near Cersei when she dies and this will add to her sorrow.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I don't think it will be Jaime who kills Cersei. The reason I think this is Cersei would get some kind of comfort having Jaime with her as she dies, even if he was the one killing her. I think Jaime won't be anywhere near Cersei when she dies and this will add to her sorrow.

I think maybe he won't be right next to her but I think how she dies will be a chain of events started by him. like idk her protector leaves her because of something jaime does and then she gets killed, that's just a guess, but jaime loved her so much, and that is slowly turning to a loathing that will just keep building.