Arya vs Sansa Thread

[kephv]

If her character died in Bravos who in the story would care. Arya hasn't MATTERED for a long time.

Jon, for one. But you can pretty much say this about any number of characters in the story -- including Sansa. Also, how do you define who matters?

[PureGold]

Jon, for one. But you can pretty much say this about any number of characters in the story -- including Sansa. Also, how do you define who matters?

I mean in terms of value to the canvas. If Sansa died it would thrill Cersei, probably relieve the Tyrells, free Tyrion of the baggage of his Westeros marriage, doubtless derail Littlefingers immediate plans, possibly break Little Robin's heart, and make Brienne feel like she's completely failed Lady Catelyn as both She and Jaimie and Pate have been looking for Sansa.

Arya hasn't interacted with anyone of relevance in how long???? IMO her storyline wasn't all that great before but removing her from Westeros torpedoed the whole thing.

[Errant Bard]

Arya hasn't interacted with anyone of relevance in how long? In my opinion her storyline wasn't all that great before but removing her from Westeros torpedoed the whole thing.

But it's the same for Dany, Jon or Bran, they each have been separated from the actors of the war of the five kings for a long time, it doesn't torpedo anything, especially since you are not GRRM and don't know what "the whole thing" is.

Arya, like about every other kid PoV, got a place to rest and grow up during the defunct "five years gap", that Place was Braavos, it was a cave up North for Bran, the Wall for Jon, the Eyrie for Sansa. It's transitory and it serves to give her some baggage to be more believably relevant for what comes next.

Also, a lot of people have been going to Essos lately so I'm not sure how being there makes one irrelevant.

[Grail King]

I hate her personality. I hate that readers glorify her and then hate on Sansa because she's not some tomboy bloodthirsty killing chick . I hate everything about her.

How could you have such hate for a book character ?

Does she resemble someone in real life?

I may disagree with people on her character's physical ability with regards to a girl in real life but I can't hate her.

[Grail King]

Not to mention being Sansa's competition. ;)

By the old gods and new, do I HATE Arya/Gendry shipping. Just felt the need to say that because I haven't in the last day or two. :bang:

Chemistry? ARYA WAS NINE YEARS OLD! She was 9 and Gendry was 16. As far as I'm concerned that kind of chemistry should be reported to Child Protective Services.

Sorry for the slightly hysterical tone, but . . . I just . . . can't . . . :bang:

Be calm, my children, for I hate everything about Sansa, and thus the balance of the universe is maintained. :cool4:

Same as above, Except Sansa's my #1 and at 11-13 years of age I can look past the childish stuff and put most of it on Ned, Cat, Mordane and Luwin.

She is more realistic between the two and that's why she's my #1.

[LordBloodraven]

I hate her personality. I hate that readers glorify her and then hate on Sansa because she's not some tomboy bloodthirsty killing chick . I hate everything about her.

Ok, you hate how she's perceived by some of her fans more than her personality... Seems a lot of characters suffer from that, Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Sansa all comes to mind

[Grail King]

Definitely Sansa. I just find Arya so overdone. The Traveling Tomboy who miraculously survives insurmountable odds. I didn't hate Arya's Traveling Tales until she headed to Bravos, than she became even more trite and her story more uninspired (IMO) than it already was. Not bad just so boring compared to just about every other character. I just find everything with her so uneventful for the most part. If her character died in Bravos who in the story would care. Arya hasn't MATTERED for a long time.

Sansa by contrast I've seen develop more and more as the books have gone on, she's made allies who've than become enemies and has interacted with and been apart of the most engaging and exciting plot twist in the whole series. Her scheme to escape with Dontos, I found to be very exciting, her interactions with the Tyrells VERY intriguing, her treatment by the Lannisters heartbreaking. Sansa has incredibly interesting dynamics with Margaery, Olenna, Cersei, Tyrion, Littlefinger, Little Robin.

She's seen fortunes unbelievably rise and tragically fall. Sansa who started this tale as Naive and flightly is now a Lady-wife, wanted-fugitive, maiden living under a false identity with one of the most deceitful villains in the whole story. In terms of interest Sansa isn't even in the same Library as Sansa.

Did you mean Arya here?

[Newstar]

Arya, like about every other kid PoV, got a place to rest and grow up during the defunct "five years gap", that Place was Braavos, it was a cave up North for Bran, the Wall for Jon, the Eyrie for Sansa. It's transitory and it serves to give her some baggage to be more believably relevant for what comes next.

Yup. It's a place for Arya to be stashed (reasonably) safely so that she can train up. I do kind of wonder what she would have been doing in those five years: assuming she was with the FM the whole time, at the rate she's going, she would have racked up a lot of kills in those intervening five years. That's a lot of blood on her hands. Makes me wonder what GRRM was planning to do with her before he changed his mind about the gap, and whether scrapping the gap altered his plans for her in any way.

It also seems to strain credulity that Sansa could have escaped detection for five years as Alayne Stone in the Vale. Are we to assume that Sweetrobin would have lived for those five years? Seems unlikely, and his death would have triggered a succession fight that might have required Alayne Stone's outing as Sansa Stark so that she could marry Harry the Heir. I can believe that Bran could be stuck in a tree for five years without even necessarily realizing, and that Rickon could be stuck on Skagos for five years.

[David Selig]

That reminds me that I dislike the warrior women always obey their patriarchs while feminine women don't arguments.

For many of them it has negative consequences anyway. Arianne's plot went kaput. Asha is currently in a tight space because if she had obeyed her male authority figures Euron may have just killed her but she's now a prisoner.

Charges that Arya would never seems like selective reading to me.

Ned felt that Arya had the tendency to disobey him.

Which is partially what prompted him to give her the speech about the lone wolf and comparing her to Lyanna and Brandon.

I don't think Ned was that rigid on discipline anyway. On reread I noticed that Bran disobeyed him often as well when he had the use of his legs. All Ned did really was scold him and give him time out but when Bran continued to do it he just laughed.

Agreed. Sansa also reflected a few times that Arya disobeyed Ned quite often and got away with it usually.

[Errant Bard]

Yup. It's a place for Arya to be stashed (reasonably) safely so that she can train up. I do kind of wonder what she would have been doing in those five years: assuming she was with the FM the whole time, at the rate she's going, she would have racked up a lot of kills in those intervening five years. That's a lot of blood on her hands. Makes me wonder what GRRM was planning to do with her before he changed his mind about the gap, and whether scrapping the gap altered his plans for her in any way.

She would have racked up kills and skills way slower, quite obviously. GRRM changed his mind about the story structure (the gap), not about the story content.

It also seems to strain credulity that Sansa could have escaped detection for five years as Alayne Stone in the Vale. Are we to assume that Sweetrobin would have lived for those five years?

No, he could easily have died in flashbacks, but it doesn't actually stretch credulity that Sweetrobin could live long, without AFFC or ADWD written, anyway.

[gutterjack]

the sisters are different, but both are strong. imo- Sansa's biggest crime was to not stand up for Arya on the road to KL. she loses some of her starkness in that moment. she is a stong character in her own way in that she has made it up to this point in the story with her sanity intact and a better understanding of crazy people.

[Stark in Winterfell]

Arya, definitely. i see her eventually being her own force in the war aganist the Others; she, a master assassin, along w/ Nymeria and a few thousand wolves, her warging and ripping wights to pieces

[Lady Arianne Martell]

How could you have such hate for a book character ?

Does she resemble someone in real life?

I may disagree with people on her character's physical ability with regards to a girl in real life but I can't hate her.

If you've read my other posts, I hate Ramsay and Joff WAYYY more than her.

My hatred for Arya is more of an annoying sort of hatred rather than a "DIEEEE" hatred. I just can't stand her character, thoughts, etc.

Mostly , I hate that Sansa is expected to BE arya all the time.

[NorthernBird]

I think many people who dislike Sansa have only read the first book...

[POPPY5609]

First of all, i think the thread is more who you think is better that generally comparing who is the better character between them.

For example, for me, i like and think Arya is a much better character. Does that mean that i hate Sansa and i think she is an awful stupid character who deserves everything she got? No.

I like Arya because she is much more than simply a tomboy, she is this fierce brave compassionate character who, rather than being a boy, simply just wants to what she likes without being labeled. I mean, she tries to fit in; her first chapter is proof of that. But she can't and that makes things harder for her and that why she hates needlework and the music stuff, not because they are girly but because simply she isn't good at them. People surrounding her don’t understand them, they don't get it that she is trying but she isn't good at that, so to them she seem rebellious. She is rebellious, but in a different way than people think. I think some of us can relate to that. And she is a child, which child actually completely obeys their parents? Most of them don't, even in that time period.

Now, that's all about her life as noble lady. But she is also a very good person. She is really friendly, she doesn't care about where people come from or who they are but looks for their personality and everything even though she has been taught to do other way. To look if they're noble or not, how rich they are, are they trueborn or bastards. Arya doesn't care about that and actually thinks of the idea as wrong and unfair while Sansa just goes with it because that’s what she has been told to do, which isn't wrong, i mean she is expected by others to do that, it is the norm in her community and she goes with it but Arya doesn't go with the norm. She searches for the idea itself and tries to identify it as wrong or good on her own rather than what other people think. I think thats really brave, because people even today's society aren't brave enough to do that but this ten years old kid is. I like that about her and i think some people relate to this and admire it.

She is also extremely kind and forgiving. Her dark pov tries to hide that but its there if you look for it. She is forgives Sansa when she thinks she betrayed her and got Mycah killed-Sansa didn't but that's what Arya thinks but despite that she forgives her and even tries to be friendly with her and everything. During her time in Flea Bottom, even when she is hungry and is a really bad situation, she tries to make friends. In the second book, she is bullied by Lommy and Hot Pie who even try to attack her and steal her sword, but she forgives them too and later she risks her life multiple times to save them and helps them. May i remind you when Lommy injuries his leg and she knows that he is going to slow them down, she still doesn't leave them behind. And course Weasel, the orphan girl she adopts and takes care of by being a maternal figure to her while she herself needs her own mother. And Gendry, who she went back for and risk getting herself captured just to save him. And her saving Jaqen and Biter and the other guy from the cage, going through the fighting and everything just to give them a chance to escape. And Yoren, this guy she knows for only a few weeks and she comes back for him and searches for his body and buries him as a sign of respect. And saving the northern people, giving water to the captives in the cages, all sign of incredible kindness but still people focus on her completely understandable kills and dark thoughts, influence of her traumatized and horrific life, instead.

No, i am not saying that she is an angel and this perfect amazing character. She is rash, she is impulsive, outspoken, too brave, but she is also clever and kind and passionate and a great role model. Sansa is more of character that you can relate to, i guess, though i find Arya much more relatable, but Arya is the character you can look onto as a role model. The thing is Arya is much more complex, her pov is much darker and that's why it's hard for casual readers to actually understand her but she is, in the end, one of the best characters in Literature itself.

However Sansa is also a great character, she is also sweet and nice and she is doesn’t deserve any of the things that she got but i simply think Arya is better. Notice that I said think instead of is. It's just an opinion.