UnCat becoming Cat again?

[Batman]

Jon cuts her head off.

[LordStoneheart]

hehe... so glad i found these forums... so interesting...

anyone think there's a tie between undead people brought back by fire like cat and beric, and wights ?

FireWights seems to be able to make concious decisions, while IceWights are kind of brainless.

[ab aeterno]

i thought GRRM said she was never mean to jon except that once at Bran's bedside, but rather just ignored him.

Beric was killed many times, so that could be why he got progressively worse, but I suppose it'd take more life for her to heal fully.

And I don't really think she's all that corrupted. She still remembers her family. She was holding Robb's crown, and she recognized Oathkeeper as Ice reforged. I think she's just on a venegeance kick because of the massive Frey betrayal. Tullys and Starks naively trust in honor, so the betrayal is probably worse in their eyes.

Don't you think that it is a little unkind to just ignore a child who has done nothing wrong?

[kissdbyfire]

hehe... so glad i found these forums... so interesting...

anyone think there's a tie between undead people brought back by fire like cat and beric, and wights ?

FireWights seems to be able to make concious decisions, while IceWights are kind of brainless.

Yeah. I always refer to the undeads in general as 'fire wights' and 'ice wights'. One big difference between the two to me is exactly the control the fire wights have that the ice ones lack. And I think the blue light shining through the eyes of the ice wights is showing us they are being controlled by something/someone else. I think Coldhands is an example of an ice wight that is not being controlled and therefore is much more like Beric and Stoneheart.

My two cents.

[nQthing]

UnUnCat? I don't think so

[Danelle]

Did she recognize Oathkeeper as Ice or was she just mad that it had Lannister colors and lions? I found that part a bit hard to interpret. My perception was that it was the latter, not the former, though. I think if she'd known about the Ice thing she would have freaked out even MORE than she did.

Perhaps she did. I mean how is it possible to get more angry and vicious? Sansa when she saw Widow's Wail said: What is he doing with my father's sword? Perhaps Oathkeeper was not as distinctive as WW. In her state of mind, LS would even kill poor Tysha if she could. Anyone and anything associate dto the Lannister means death for her.

[ServantOnIce]

I don't know if UnCat will be a part of the TV show or how they will handle her after this season . .who knows.

I'm done discussing it for the nonce.

[anonymouseuser]

Don't you think that it is a little unkind to just ignore a child who has done nothing wrong?

I think it's more than a little unkind for Ned to see Jon being frozen out like this and not tell his wife what the real deal was. (That's if the R+L= J rumour that's going around is true, of course).

[ab aeterno]

I think it's more than a little unkind for Ned to see Jon being frozen out like this and not tell his wife what the real deal was. (That's if the R+L= J rumour that's going around is true, of course).

Not if he was protection someone, i.e. Lyanna or someone else. As we are told, that sort of thing (bastard children) is very common in Westeros, especially during war.

Also, Cat is a grown *ss woman who should be able to swallow her emotions and not take them out on a little kid who has done nothing wrong.

[Jolene Brown]

Perhaps she did. I mean how is it possible to get more angry and vicious? Sansa when she saw Widow's Wail said: What is he doing with my father's sword? Perhaps Oathkeeper was not as distinctive as WW.

No, I don't think that's what happened - didn't she see Ilyn Payne without Ice and ask where her father's sword had gone? I don't think she actually recognized WW. Yes, I looked - I saw no sign that she recognized Widow's Wail as part of Ice.

At the wedding she asks "What has Ser Ilyn done with my Father's sword?" because before he had it and now it was gone - she wanted to know where it went. Tyrion thinks to himself that he should have sent Ice home with Ned's bones but he doesn't actually tell her what happened to it.

[someonetyriondpayforsex]

I really don't like how fictional characters are judged here. It's fine to have an emotional reaction but it clouds over the mechanics of the story and often prevents a deeper understanding. Also, it's boring.

[ab aeterno]

I really don't like how fictional characters are judged here. It's fine to have an emotional reaction but it clouds over the mechanics of the story and often prevents a deeper understanding. Also, it's boring.

Respectfully, if you find it boring, then just avoid the threads where this type of discussion takes place. The entire point of most works of fiction or art is to elicit an emotional response, and it's that emotional response which drives so much of the discussions on this board and the love for the series.

[anonymouseuser]

Not if he was protection someone, i.e. Lyanna or someone else. As we are told, that sort of thing (bastard children) is very common in Westeros, especially during war.

Also, Cat is a grown *ss woman who should be able to swallow her emotions and not take them out on a little kid who has done nothing wrong.

Are you suggesting that Ned thought he couldn't rely on Cat keeping her mouth shut about this? Also whether or not she should have been able to "swallow her emotions" if she she couldn't, shouldn't he have put matters right ? Wouldn't have been difficult.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Are you suggesting that Ned thought he couldn't rely on Cat keeping her mouth shut about this? Also whether or not she should have been able to "swallow her emotions" if she she couldn't, shouldn't he have put matters right ? Wouldn't have been difficult.

The first year or the fifteenth year?

[ab aeterno]

Are you suggesting that Ned thought he couldn't rely on Cat keeping her mouth shut about this? Also whether or not she should have been able to "swallow her emotions" if she she couldn't, shouldn't he have put matters right ? Wouldn't have been difficult.

Assuming that Ned promised his sister, as she lay dying, that he would tell no-one then it wouldn't matter whether he trusted Cat, not telling her would be a matter of honor and love for his dead sister. Regarding swallowing her emotions, I'll say again, she is a grown woman, she's happy enough bossing people around, arresting Tyrion Lannister etc. All she has to do is have the decency to and empathetically to a little boy. She's so selfish and self-indulgent over it. Again, if he had promised his sister, telling Cat would not be "putting it right."

Granted, I dislike Cat, but largely because of all the problems she has caused through not being able to control her emotions. Over Jon, over Bran, over Arya and Sansa, and even now that she is unDead.

[anonymouseuser]

The first year or the fifteenth year?

Whenever it became necessary - personally I would have come clean from the get go. Although I suppose at the beginning of their marriage he might have had some reservations. But as time went by... Well you get my drift.

[anonymouseuser]

Assuming that Ned promised his sister, as she lay dying, that he would tell no-one then it wouldn't matter whether he trusted Cat, not telling her would be a matter of honor and love for his dead sister. Regarding swallowing her emotions, I'll say again, she is a grown woman, she's happy enough bossing people around, arresting Tyrion Lannister etc. All she has to do is have the decency to and empathetically to a little boy. She's so selfish and self-indulgent over it. Again, if he had promised his sister, telling Cat would not be "putting it right."

Granted, I dislike Cat, but largely because of all the problems she has caused through not being able to control her emotions. Over Jon, over Bran, over Arya and Sansa, and even now that she is unDead.

I don't really want to reply to everything in this post because there's not point in discussing personal likes and dislikes. However I couldn't edit your quotes and just get to the part I wanted to answer so see belvoe:

We've seen just how damaging Ned's pursuit of his sense of honour has been. It wouldn't be a stretch to say he's partially responsible for the chaos in Westeros. However anyone who takes their marriage vows seriously (and it seems to me that Ned and Cat did) would automatically confide in their consort especially if they were keeping a secret with the potential of destroying their entire family were it discovered. Just saying!

[ab aeterno]

I don't really want to reply to everything in this post because there's not point in discussing personal likes and dislikes. However I couldn't edit your quotes and just get to the part I wanted to answer so see belvoe:

We've seen just how damaging Ned's pursuit of his sense of honour has been. It wouldn't be a stretch to say he's partially responsible for the chaos in Westeros. However anyone who takes their marriage vows seriously (and it seems to me that Ned and Cat did) would automatically confide in their consort especially if they were keeping a secret with the potential of destroying their entire family were it discovered. Just saying!

Personally, I would say that it would be better for him not to tell them. If he is the only one who knows there is practically no chance that anyone would find out. Even good marriages have secrets, very few people are absolutely honest with each other. Just because per GRRM and ASOIAF being honorable often has bad consequences, doesn't mean you shouldn't be honorable. Doing things the right way is almost always harder.

[DorneRising]

To people who are saying she was not that mean to Jon, come on, it's implied she is. For example, when Jon is saying his goodbyes to a comatose Bran before going to the North. Cat says to Jon "it should've been you" indicating to Bran's state. Harsh.

Regarding Cat though, I do like her character. She values her family and is willing to get her hands dirty for their benefit (by her logic anyway). Also, her chapters are always entertaining. But UnCat is a different woman, damn she is going on some rampage. I worry for Jaime Lannister because if you remember, Roose said to Robb "regards from Jaime Lanniser" before plunging the lance. UnCat will remember that line.

[anonymouseuser]

Personally, I would say that it would be better for him not to tell them. If he is the only one who knows there is practically no chance that anyone would find out. Even good marriages have secrets, very few people are absolutely honest with each other. Just because per GRRM and ASOIAF being honorable often has bad consequences, doesn't mean you shouldn't be honorable. Doing things the right way is almost always harder.

In this case it made things harder than they needed to be for Cat and Jon, who otherwise might have had a much more fulfilling relationship. Once again this is assuming Jon's parentage is as above. Personally I would be VERY upset if I discovered my husband had been keeping something like from me for all those years.