IS Dany still the Unburnt?

[DaveRoid]

Also, I hope GRRM is a better writer than to make too much use of "gifts from the gods." Literal deus-ex-machina is the worst kind.

One time pixi dust magic unexplainable events are worst. it makes far more sense that the blood of the dragon/AA can not be burned by fire.

Martin has already set distinct precedence to this with his The ice dragon novel. The Ice dragon rider is the child of winter and is resistant to cold.

[ab aeterno]

One time magic unexplainable events are worst.

Personally, I would consider the gods just giving magical gods to two families would count as unexplainable one time events, seeing as the gods don't seem inclined to repeat it with anyone else...

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

That's just a term. To me its very questionable on gods even existing in the series. Most gods are thought up to explain what can't be explained. Hence why I used it. The only gods that exist out of theory in the series are death and the old gods which are made up of the world and life itself. The show could not exist and I would still believe that she is immune to fire. Only george stating outright she isn't or if he kills her with flame or burns her sometime. That will change my mind. All the evidence I see points more to her being resilient than to her ablity to be burned.

[Lord of Cheese]

George made it quite clear in an SSM that the pyre was 'a one time event'. She is most definitely not immune to fire. She also really did not have much more than blind faith that walking into the pyre was going to work at all. GRRM also said in a recent interview tha there really is no system to magic and ppl are playing with forces they can't possibly understand and things are likely to backfire. Danny got a fluke that time.

I read the first few books, then watched the tv series and then read the remainder, all before coming here to this site, did get sucked into the fireproof Danny theory and was shocked by her getting singed by Drogon at the end, then puzzled and downgraded her to partially fireproof LOL. The TV series distorts things a bit. The books leave it up to the reader to decide if she is immune leaving it vague enough (to lure those who want her to be immune) to make you think she might be but then also at risk of making a fatal mistake if she tries it again... I guess just like Danny has to decide if she wants to test the theory herself. But the more you think about it she is not immune... Read the passages carefully. For me the books make it look like Dany could be making the mistake of thinking she has fire and disease proofness... Or going a little cookoo like Targs of old.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

George made it quite clear in an SSM that the pyre was 'a one time event'. She is most definitely not immune to fire. She also really did not have much more than blind faith that walking into the pyre was going to work at all. GRRM also said in a recent interview tha there really is no system to magic and ppl are playing with forces they can't possibly understand and things are likely to backfire. Danny got a fluke that time.

I read the first few books, then watched the tv series and then read the remainder, all before coming here to this site, did get sucked into the fireproof Danny theory and was shocked by her getting singed by Drogon at the end, then puzzled and downgraded her to partially fireproof LOL. The TV series distorts things a bit. The books leave it up to the reader to decide if she is immune leaving it vague enough (to lure those who want her to be immune) to make you think she might be but then also at risk of making a fatal mistake if she tries it again... I guess just like Danny has to decide if she wants to test the theory herself. But the more you think about it she is not immune... Read the passages carefully. For me the books make it look like Dany could be making the mistake of thinking she has fire and disease proofness... Or going a little cookoo like Targs of old.

Your just repeating what everyone else did. Still not enough we've discussed it to noend and you've offered nothing new

[Dragonfish]

Chemistry means nothing to this story. Animals don't breath fire in reality. And chemists are not doctors in any case.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. You've made a statement of fact, namely, that if her hair burned, then her scalp ought to have burned as well. I am pointing out that this fact is dead wrong. You don't get to dismiss it because it's inconvenient.

her palms were burned by the spear. Not by drogon.

Yes, and? If she was burned, then she's not immune to fire, is she?

Even yet she says they are blisters. Are they healing burns. Or are they blisters from drogon's scales. Could be a lot of different reason for her injured hands. Its not like she had a saddle to ride with. Holding onto him could of blistered her hands.

No, they are explicitly described as blisters resulting from burns.

[Dragonfish]

I find it strange he would go against his own writing so much with daznak's to make the story that much more confusing to make us wonder wether she is burnable or immune.

Two words: unreliable narrator. Dany's interpretation of events is skewed. That's why she thinks the fight in Daznak's Pit was "just like" Drogo's pyre, even though she was never actually enveloped by flames, and even though she has burns on her hands. That's also probably why she thinks Targs can't get sick, even though this is objectively false.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

From the spear. Who knows. Still not convinced. Even yet minor burns are not enough to kill her. She could still be resilient especially to the "magical" dragon flame

[Dragonfish]

From the spear. Who knows. Still not convinced.

What the hell does it matter? They are still burns. You can't say she's immune to fire if she burns.

Even yet minor burns are not enough to kill her.

Yeah, minor burns are generally not enough to kill anyone.

She could still be resilient especially to the "magical" dragon flame

But the fire on Drogo's pyre wasn't dragon flame, just regular flame. So clearly, whatever resistance she had to that is gone. Why would she retain resistance to some other type of fire?

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Because she is a bride of fire after the pyre.

She is a mother to her dragons. You have an obvious issue with thinking bigger. I see what your saying. My thoughts are impossible though? George says art is subjective and he wants the individual to make what they will from his stories. Maybe she can't die by fire and jon snow can't die from cold. The only reason I even say that is his last thought was of the cold. Drink from the cup off fire. Drink from the cup of ice. Maybe its all a trick and she's going insane. I still don't see it as determined how fire effects her.

[Lord of Cheese]

Your just repeating what everyone else did. Still not enough we've discussed it to noend and you've offered nothing new

Because she is a bride of fire after the pyre.

She is a mother to her dragons. You have an obvious issue with thinking bigger. I see what your saying. My thoughts are impossible though? George says art is subjective and he wants the individual to make what they will from his stories. Maybe she can't die by fire and jon snow can't die from cold. The only reason I even say that is his last thought was of the cold. Drink from the cup off fire. Drink from the cup of ice. Maybe its all a trick and she's going insane. I still don't see it as determined how fire effects her.

Because its the right interpretation.

She is not really MOTHER of dragons or literally a Bride of FIre. She fluked a spell. Now her titles are a boast. If i survived swallowing a Valyrian Steel sword and worked it out through my arse i would surely add a few titles to my name too.

GRRM has already stated she is not immune and it was a one time magical event. If you think he will suddenly change his mind on this then you are clinging to a deeply flawed hope.

[Cruella]

You can be convinced that Viserys and Ned are alive, and unwilling to be persuaded otherwise, nobody can force you to believe in something, even GRRM, there is no thought police. But that's not an argument, so repeating "I won't believe it!" it is pointless. We discuss statements from the books and our interpretations - these are arguments.

You say she's not unfeeling to the heat, but that's what fire is - an air at very high temperature. So if she can feel warmth of 59 Farenheit, she should be able to feel 456 Farenheit as well. I just find it easier to believe that for one time, magical event bended natural rules of physics, than to imagine it kicking in every time temperature around Dany rises above certain point.

We have prophecy that has been torturing Targs since last dragon died, it seems, about somebody - a Targ, presumably, - being able to do what Dany did. This tragedy resulted in Summerhall tragedy and other unpleasant events (orchestrated by people who probably didn't think themselves generally fire proof, certainly not Egg). In Dany, old prophecy finally became true, as she's the one who was destined to bring dragons back. This magical act involed various unprobable things, including survival of a chosen one in fire. it's quite different from there existing some fireproof person, who feels heat but somehow unaffected by extreme heat.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

That was fifteen years ago. I think its hugely possible that the story changed since then. He talks about how much its grown. To me she's not immune. She's resistant. She can stand the flame. That's why I believe she remains with magic in her blood. It has nothing to do with titles. So keep it up with your verbose statements to try and change my mind. Only one person can do that. I can keep this argument up forever. I've said before I'll say it again. Unless george makes a new statement I will believe in the possibility and I will lean more towards her resistance. Thank you for being overrated and trying to argue it to no end but you haven't given me any evidence besides a stale interview and blisters. My evidence may not be much better but it stands just as strong. If george exlains daznak's then I'll understand that my theory is wrong. But until then I think it makes much more sense to me that she is resistant and able to take what her dragons dish it out. I think it may even be necessary for her to train them properly. Sue me! I like the idea of a stronger dany! GET OVER IT

[Dragonfish]

My evidence may not be much better but it stands just as strong.

Uh, no, almost all of your points have been shown to be false:

1) Dany survived Drogon's flames just like she survived Drogo's pyre--FALSE: Only Dany's hair was hit by the flames.

2) Dany's scalp remains unburned, which can only be explained by her resistance to fire--FALSE: It is entirely possible for a person's hair to burn away without damaging their scalp.

3) Dany's blisters may be the result of something other than burns--FALSE: Her blisters are explicitly said to be the result of burns.

The only one of your points that isn't absolutely false is your argument about Dany's fire resistance on the show possibly indicating that George has changed his mind. However, the only reason that this can't be declared false outright is that we honestly don't know the motivations of the producers in making this change. But by the same token, we can't declare this point to be true either. So at best, this one is a wash.

Now compare this to our evidence, which relies on the words of the author himself from around the time he was writing ASOS, as well as the text, which explicitly states that Dany was burned in Daznak's Pit. After comparing these two sets of evidence, can you honestly say that your evidence is "just as strong" as ours? Because if you can, then it seems to me that your entire argument is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying, "I'm not listening! I'm not listening!"

[Belandra Waters]

@Dragonfish: Do you think that Dany is any more fire-resistant than those of the general population? If not, is she more heat-tolerant than others? Just curious, I've seen mixed opinions on the forum about this.

I wonder, too, why the Targs themselves seem to be believe that they are fire-immune? We see that belief repeated and acted on more than once (Summerhall, Aerys--planned burning of KL, Quentyn. etc) so it must have its origins from somewhere...?

[Dragonfish]

@Dragonfish: Do you think that Dany is any more fire-resistant than those of the general population? If not, is she more heat-tolerant than others? Just curious, I've seen mixed opinions on the forum about this.

I think she can tolerate a bit more heat than others (in fact, I recall GRRM said exactly this in a SSM) but I don't think she's "resistant" or "immune" to fire. In my view, if flame touches her skin, she's gonna get burned.

ETA--Here is the SSM I was referring to:

"Shaw: Are all the Targaryans immune to fire?

Martin: No, no Targaryans are immune to fire. The thing with Dany and the dragons, that was just a one-time magical event, very special and unique. The Targaryans can tolerate a bit more heat than most ordinary people, they like really hot baths and things like that, but that doesn't mean they're totally immune to fire, no. Dragons, on the other hand, are pretty much immune to fire."

This interview is from 2003, back when George was in the middle of writing AFFC/ADWD.

[Belandra Waters]

That's helpful! Thanks!

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Funny! None of my points have been proven false. All I see is you disagree to no end. I see dany as having resistance. That the targaryens before her were convinced by their dreams to mess with the fire. Same as dany only with her it worked the elements were right for her to wake the dragons. I see her as being resistant after this because in the pit she is blasted with fire. She ducks her hair burns to the scalp and she comes out pratically unscathed. Seems strange to me. Maybe it was just right that she ducked and she didn't burn when the flames shot at her. but I don't see that at all. I think she has a resistance to fire. Not immunity. Even the dragons aren't immune. The fires of the doom proved that. But her being resistant makes complete sense to me. She can still burn hence her blisters. But its more unlikely that fire will kill her as easily as it kills a normal person. Her resistance allows her leanway with the dragons. Resistance makes it hard to kill her with fire but she wouldn't be immune. I love how you see it being so ludacris. I think that in itself is hilarious. Why don't you make me a diagram on why she isn't resistant?

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Funny! None of my points have been proven false.

We see from the date that the author was in the process of writing a feast for crows which originally contained the content for the published feast of crows and the published dance with dragons.

So your argument that the story has grown a lot isn't accurate and your statement that the quote is 15 years old is absolutely incorrect.

[Dragonfish]

Funny! None of my points have been proven false. All I see is you disagree to no end.

I'm disagreeing because your points are wrong.

I see her as being resistant after this because in the pit she is blasted with fire. She ducks her hair burns to the scalp and she comes out pratically unscathed. Seems strange to me.

It's hard for me to tell if you're saying that Dany's whole body was blasted with fire here, but in case you are, let me re-iterate that she wasn't. This is proven by the fact that her clothing remains unscathed after the incident. The only part of her body that appears to have caught fire is her hair, and that issue has been explained.

Even the dragons aren't immune. The fires of the doom proved that.

Well, according to the interview I posted above, which you appear to not have read, dragons are pretty much immune to fire.

But her being resistant makes complete sense to me. She can still burn hence her blisters.

If her skin burns from clutching a hot spear, then I do not see how it's possible that she wouldn't burn from contact with fire, given that the latter is hotter than the former.

Why don't you make me a diagram on why she isn't resistant?

Why don't you refer yourself to the interview I posted, in which George re-iterates for the third time that Targaryens are not immune to fire.