IS Dany still the Unburnt?

[DaveRoid]

The folks who try to portray her as some superhuman fireproof specimen of excellence despite what the text & actual events & the goddamn author screams at them are utter fools IMO. Or just let their extreme like for the character wish it was otherwise.

except all the text in the book provide that she is very special. I like How you ignored the points from the text I put forward there:

And this is where a-lot of people make their mistake. She is not just another run of the mill Tygarian ffs, she is special by everything the text tells us. Births dragons for first time in a hundred years where similar methods had failed in the past.. and a rare comet just happens to appear the same night she is doing it, she didn't burn in the pyre & knew it, is called AA reborn by both Master Aemon and the high red priest of Volantis(yet the same folks who deny she is fire proff probably will expend themselves tirelessly trying to argue she is not AA,), is called Bride of fire by the undying and is subject to numouras prophecies from them including uniting the entire freaking Dotraki and as of DwD is an actual dragon rider as well as mother of dragons. etc etc

ETA: He has also never made mention of any special "greenseer"-esque Targs. It's "Targaryens are not fireproof, period." Not, "Targaryens are generally fireproof, but some of them aren't."

In the show ( that martin is fully involved in) she is being built to be full fire proof, not only surviving the pyre, and surviving the heat passing right by her in HOTU (similar to her DwD encounter) but also lifting a scorching egg and not burning her hands.

@ DragonFish

Ok he is asked if ALL tygarians are fire proof. he says the Danny stuff was one time event yet from DwD we see that it was not. I would attribute his Danny comments to trying to be ambiguous/mysterious. Look what he answers to another question:

Shaw: As the novels unfold, Jon becomes increasingly identified with the northern cold and ice, just as Dany is closely tied to the southern heat and fire. Will these two ultimately embody the central image of the series, Ice and Fire?

Martin: That's certainly one way to interpret it. That's for my readers to argue out. That may be one possible meaning. There may be a secondary meaning, or a tertiary meaning as well.

He is trying to keep us guessing. I would go with his actual text in the books since he will never answer conclusively on popular speculations (and spoil his viewers) in interviews.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

except all the text in the book provide that she is very special. I like How you ignored the points from the text I put forward there:

That's ... not really a confirmation of anything.

Why, if Dany is a special exception, does GRRM not say so? We've provided SSMs where he says that Targaryens are not fireproof. If Dany is an outlier, why wouldn't he say something like, "Targaryens aren't fireproof, but Dany is a special case, and she is"? We're providing the author's own words, and he's said what he's said. The onus is on you to explain your case based on that, and from what I've read, you haven't.

As for your evidence, people like Tze and Dragonfish have shredded it repeatedly.

[Dragonfish]

@ DragonFish

Ok he is asked if ALL tygarians are fire proof. he says the Danny stuff was one time event yet from DwD we see that it was not.

No, for the last freaking time, nothing from ADWD contradicts what he says in this interview. How many times does this have to be spelled out? She is literally burned in her confrontation with Drogon, and yet you are seriously contending that this passage proves she's resistant to fire?

I would attribute his Danny comments to trying to be ambiguous/mysterious.

Uh, what about his comments is ambiguous or mysterious? He states flat out that what happened to her on Drogo's pyre was a one-time thing. Nothing ambiguous about that.

[DaveRoid]

That's ... not really a confirmation of anything.

Why, if Dany is a special exception, does GRRM not say so?

Because he has? in the text? who is riding dragons? are you that blind?

As for your evidence, people like Tze and Dragonfish have shredded it repeatedly.

No they have not, They repeatedly ignore the part where Dragonfire --Hotest fire in the ASOIAF-- passes right by someone heads, sets her long hair afire which burns to the roots and yet it leaves zero burns on her skull, neck and face skin. She then goes on to say "fire burned my hair but other-wise did not touch her , just like in the pyre". There is zero explanations for all this so far other than popular but bias wishes for a disliked character.

Uh, what about his comments is ambiguous or mysterious? He states flat out that what happened to her on Drogo's pyre was a one-time thing. Nothing ambiguous about that.

In his prior interviews he says "probably not" when asked if Danny will encounter similar events at the pyre again. That is ambiguous.

[Lykos]

DaveRoid, so do you also believe that Stannis´burnt sword is actually lightbringer just because it he and Melisandre claim it is and it shines like the sun?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Because he has? in the text? who is riding dragons? are you that blind?

Just because your argument is incredibly poor doesn't give you the right to insult me or anyone else, do you understand? Saying things like "you're a fool" or "you're blind" is incredibly rude and adds NOTHING to your argument and does NOTHING to make anyone want to take you seriously. So, stop it.

No they have not, They repeatedly ignore the part where Dragonfire --Hotest fire in the ASOIAF-- passes right by someone heads, sets her long hair afire which burns to the roots and yet it leaves zero burns on her skull, neck and face skin. She then goes on to say "fire burned my hair but other-wise did not touch her , just like in the pyre". There is zero explanations for all this so far other than popular but bias wishes for a disliked character.

SHE IS AN UNRELIABLE NARRATOR. Sansa thinks that Sandor kissed her, too. Did he? No. But she thinks he did! How can that be? Unreliable narrators. GRRM uses them, get with the program.

I'm done with this. It's clear that this person doesn't have a leg to stand on and can only toss off incredibly immature insults. It's going nowhere and this guy is going to believe Dany's fireproof-ness right up until she chugs wildfire. Dragonfish, you can have him.

[Dragonfish]

No they have not, They repeatedly ignore the part where Dragonfire --Hotest fire in the ASOIAF-- passes right by someone heads

Already addressed this on the previous page. Are you that blind?

sets her long hair afire which burns to the roots and yet it leaves zero burns on her skull, neck and face skin. S

This issue has also been addressed in this thread. People who are much more knowledgeable about science than you or me have explained that hair can burn away without the scalp being damaged.

she then goes on to say "fire burned by heer but toher wise did not touch her , just like in the pyre". There is zero explanations for all this so far other than popular but bias wishes for a disliked character.

No, this has also been addressed by highlighting the issue of unreliable narrator. It has also been pointed out that Dany's experience in Daznak's Pit was not like her experience on Drogo's pyre. We know she wasn't enveloped by flames in the pit, because her clothing was untouched. You have yet to address or acknowledge this point. You also have yet to answer how a supposedly fire-proof woman can end up with burn blisters.

Oh, and I don't dislike Dany. I've actually argued before that she's a good AAR candidate. The difference between you and me as that I don't need her to have superpowers in order to like her as a character.

[DaveRoid]

DaveRoid, so do you also believe that Stannis´burnt sword is actually lightbringer just because it he and Melisandre claim it is and it shines like the sun?

No it is fake obviously because it radiates no heat as rightly observed by maester Aemon. Also maester Aemon comes to believe Danny is AA reborn, which many here will think preposterous. Just because (martin didnt say it!, too obvious!, she is not immune to fire! etc etc).

its in the text baby.

[DaveRoid]

This issue has also been addressed in this thread. People who are much more knowledgeable about science than you or me have explained that hair can burn away without the scalp being damaged.

I don't buy your answer, A head full of hair cannot burn to the root without skin injury to the neck or scalp from common sense point of view. link your conflicting scientific answer with examples to this quote or otherwise shut up about it. I have common sense on my side, you have vague references to something someone said with zero links or real world examples (if that applies to ASOIAF at all.. lets assume it does for simplicity).

Also link your scientific answer why standing next to molten lava would not require special heat repelling gear to avoid severe burns. Beucase it does. And that is exacly what Danny did when she ducked from Dragonfire passing by her head.

[Lykos]

DaveRoid, but you conveniently ignored all the facts brought foward that show that Dany can´t possibly have taken a full blast of dragonfire as she tells herself. unless it´s invisible and can go around clothing (which is no where stated in the text).

[Dragonfish]

link your conflicting scientific answer with examples to this quote or otherwise shut up about it.

As usual, it was already linked to in this thread. Post #22.

Oh, and you do not get to tell me to shut up about anything, understand? Try that shit again and I'll report you to the mods.

Also link your scientific answer why standing next to molten lava would not rquire special heat repelling gear. Beucase it does. And that is exxacly what Danny did when she ducked from Dragonfire passing by her head.

Why don't you explain how a supposedly fire-proof woman developed burn blisters?

[DaveRoid]

As usual, it was already linked to in this thread. Post #22.

No that tells me nothing, I want an actual scientific source, with scientific references and real world examples. Link me the source, and no, random forum posters as a scientific source don't count.

Why don't you explain how a supposedly fire-proof woman developed burn blisters?

I have already explained it in the last page and couple of times more in previous pages when it came up. Good thing you overlooked them.

[Dragonfish]

No that tells me nothing, I want an actual scientific source, with scientific references and real world examples. Link me the source, and no random forum posters as a scientific source don't count.

Sorry, but that's all you're getting. The person who posted that has a degree in chemistry, and their words were back up by several other posters in the linked thread.

I have already explained it in the last page and couple of times more in previous pages when it came up. Good thing you overlooked it.

Sorry, but you have absolutely no leg to stand on when it comes to criticizing others for missing things. You've spent most of the last few posts accusing us of ignoring arguments when in fact we've already addressed them.

Now, as for your attempt at explanation, it doesn't really work, and is in contradiction with your other arguments. You claim that Dany is probably immune to normal fire, but not immune to dragon fire, and that this explains the burns. Yet the last few posts you've been continually asking how she could survive being close to dragonfire. So on the one hand she can be harmed by dragonfire, and on the other hand her not being harmed by dragonfire proves she's fire-immune. Which is it?

[DaveRoid]

Sorry, but that's all you're getting. The person who posted that has a degree in chemistry, and their words were back up by several other posters in the linked thread.

So you have no scientific proof that someone who's head is on fire can escape uninjured without any neck, face, or scalp burns. Common sense prevails then in this case. She resisted the flames as no ordinary human would have escaped that situation unharmed.

Now, as for your attempt at explanation, it doesn't really work, and is in contradiction with your other arguments. You claim that Dany is probably immune to normal fire, but not immune to dragon fire, and that this explains the burns. Yet the last few posts you've been continually asking how she could survive being close to dragonfire. So on the one hand she can be harmed by dragonfire, and on the other hand her not being harmed by dragonfire proves she's fire-immune. Which is it?

So I have said she is resistant--but not immune--to Dragonfire, how does that not explain her resisting Drogon's fire when it does not hit her full force? it does.

You on the other-hand are saying she has zero immunity to normal fire or dragonfire, which should have injured her severely when coming that close to dragonfire.

[Dragonfish]

So you have no scientific proof that someone who's head is on fire can escape uninjured without any neck, face, or scalp burns. Common sense prevails then in this case. She resisted the flames as no ordinary human would have escaped that situation unharmed.

So basically, you choose not to believe the poster that was linked to? Why? Because it doesn't support your position?

Oh, and quit it with the "common sense" garbage. There are a lot of interesting facts about the natural world that defy common sense.

So I said she is resistant to Dragonfire, how does that not explain her resisting Drogon's fire when it does not hit her full force? it does.

Then why doesn't she have any blisters from being so close to the fire? (Note that I'm not necessarily agreeing she was even close to the fire, or that being that close would necessarily cause burns; I'm just arguing based on the premise you're asserting)

You on the other-hand are saying she has zero resistant to normal fire or dragonfire, which should have injured her severely when coming that close to dragonfire.

Proof? Give me scientific evidence that she ought to have been burned when she ducked underneath the flames.

[DaveRoid]

So basically, you choose not to believe the poster that was linked to? Why?

Yes I don't take the word of random posters on the internet as scientific facts. How foolish of me.

Oh, and quit it with the "common sense" garbage. There are a lot of interesting facts about the natural world that defy common sense.

So you want us to defy common sense to explain your position? You are undermining your arguments here. if you have scientific proof show it. if not take your "Garbage" elsewhere where they buy it.

Proof? Give me scientific evidence that she ought to have been burned when she ducked underneath the flames.

My proof is common sense, Dragonfire is the hottest fire in ASOIAF and if she "Ducks it" she comes in very close contact to it whilst remaining unharmed. Her hair burns from the same fire while remaining unharmed. Your evidence is a non-existent/non-provided real word scientific explanation.

I am sure I can look up about scientists who go near molten lava for tests and the fact that they cant do it without very modern heat resistant gear, but I suspect it will do little good. let me know if you insist on this and I will put up my time for it.

[Dragonfish]

So you want us to defy common sense when believing she is not fire proof?

No, I'm saying that "common sense" doesn't necessarily line up with scientific fact. That, to me, is common sense.

I am sure I can look up about scientists who go near molten lava for tests and the fact that they cant do it without very modern heat resistant gear, but I suspect it will do little good. let me know if you insist on this and I will put up my time for it.

Those two situations aren't comparable. Fire is ephemeral when it lacks a source of fuel, unlike lava. The heat from a fire also tends to emanate upward, i.e. away from Dany. So don't bother looking for your examples, because they don't prove a damn thing.

Yes I don't take the word of random posters on the internet as scientific facts. How foolish of me.

You also don't take the word of the author himself when he explicitly states Dany isn't fireproof. So yeah, I'd say you're foolish.

[DaveRoid]

@ Dragonfish

The author himself has ample reason to stay ambiguous as have been stated many times. You still have zero answer why Dragonfire should not have harmed Danny when she ducked underneath it. A projectile fire will emanate heat forward and all around it. Dragon fire is the hottest in that world so I fail to see how a little girl could escape its heat from 50 yards away. And you fail to see the same thing.

What I see here in these denials of reality are fools among more fools. When book six comes out you folks will eat your words and turn red from your hatred. DANNY IS AA?? WTF GEORGE I HATED HER AND DARRIOO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I am done with this discussion.

[Dragonfish]

@ Dragonfish

The author himself has ample reason to stay ambiguous as have been stated many times.

Except he wasn't being ambiguous. He states explicitly that Dany is not immune to fire. Where is the ambiguity here?

You still have zero answer why Dragonfire should not have harmed Danny when she ducked underneath it. A projectile fire will emanate heat forward and all around it.

Please back this up with scientific evidence. I won't hold my breath.

What I see here in these denials of reality are fools among more fools. When book six comes out you folks will eat your words and turn red from your hatred. DANNY IS AA?? WTF GEORGE I HATED HER AND DARRIOO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I have already told you I don't dislike Dany. This is yet another one of my points which you apparently have ignored.

[Lykos]

DaveRoid, even though it´s completely besides the point

is what you´re looking for.

Dragonfire was able to melt the stones of Harrenhal without causing the stone to explode or crack, which means that it was a rare type of building stone containing very little enclosures of gasses or water, you´d need a temperature of about 4000 degrees centigrade. At that heat Drogon would have to inhale his food if he wasn´t able to adjust the temperature. I have my problems aplying common sense to the burning hair, because hair tends to smolder, also Dany´s silk toka should have been more fire resistant than her linnnen undertunic, so I have to assume that Dany had very thin dry hair treated with something easily flamable or the laws of real world physics don´t aply the same way, in which case I believe what the author told me repeatedly.

And did you really believe that Stannis´sword was lightbringer for two books?