IS Dany still the Unburnt?

[Dragonfish]

She did prove her resistance in my eyes, not immunity. Everyone is drawing their conclusions from an old SSM where he states she isn't immune. Not even the dragons are immune.

No, dragons are immune to fire. This is another thing George has said outright.

This leaves a huge gap still there. I believe her statement "He is fire made flesh, and so am I" is reliable narrorating. Cause who better would explain herself than dany.

...Do you even know what unreliable narrator is?

[Empire]

Is it insufficient to say there is something in the writing to suggest Dany has been very lucky when it comes to hot things?

Maybe it's magic, maybe it's luck, but the point is the audience (the reader and the characters observing Dany) don't know or cannot tell either way.

Soooo for all intents and purposes she will remain the unburnt, having twice been not burnt.

[tze]

Soooo for all intents and purposes she will remain the unburnt, having twice been not burnt.

The first time, when she claimed she was unburnt, she was in fact unburnt:

She was naked, covered with soot, her clothes turned to ash, her beautiful hair all crisped away . . . yet she was unhurt.

.

No burns at all on her skin.

And the second time, she was also not burnt, right?

Her skin was pink and tender, and a pale milky fluid was leaking from her cracked palms, but her burns were healing.

Totally unburnt. Other than the burns, of course. But why would the presence of burns be relevant here?

Come on, people. Seriously?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Soooo for all intents and purposes she will remain the unburnt, having twice been not burnt.

... People really, really, REALLY need to reread her last chapter of ADWD and actually have it sink in.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

This thread has now officially blown my mind.

Apple Martini's a dude? Even though her tag says she-wolf and her gender listing is Female?

Holy God, What a TWIST!

It was news to me too, let me tell you.

I believe her statement "He is fire made flesh, and so am I" is reliable narrorating. Cause who better would explain herself than dany.

Do you have any idea what an "unreliable narrator" is? I don't think you do.

[sillent]

Oh god not this thread again!

Also, after what the TV show did with Season 2, I really hope we don't have too many people using events and dialogues from the show to debate things from the books especially when Dany is the subject at hand.

[K.C.]

This is completely off topic, but I thought Apple Martini would like to know that in tthe Icy and Fiery Nicknames elimination game, we just called her Fireproof Targaryen since she has too many names.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

This is completely off topic, but I thought Apple Martini would like to know that in tthe Icy and Fiery Nicknames elimination game, we just called her Fireproof Targaryen since she has too many names.

I am OK with this. Carry on.

[dark sister]

Oh most certainly!!! Please allow me to bow down to your wise judgements.

Since you said "judgements" [sic] I assume you're bowing down to Apple Martini's, Dragonfish's, mine, and various sundry's judgments. And that's fine. Btw, your sarcasm really isn't proving your case.

Let me put it more clearly, since you've been ignoring it:

YOU ARE NOT MAKING ANY SENSE

Also, ad hominem attacks won't gain you any argumentative points.

Look, I bear no ill will towards you. I think you just can't explain yourself in the way that you want because English isn't your first language. I'm sure that if you were writing in your native tongue, it would be easier for us to understand. What is your native language? I might know it.

No, dragons are immune to fire. This is another thing George has said outright.

...Do you even know what unreliable narrator is?

I don't think he/she does...it's kind of a complicated idea for some people.

[dark sister]

I am OK with this. Carry on.

I have never heard of the F/I elimination nickname game. Do you know where it originated?

[dark sister]

... People really, really, REALLY need to reread her last chapter of ADWD and actually have it sink in.

*rolls eyes* All the Dany worshipers will never accept that she is an unreliable narrator, esp. considering that there is so much "evidence" that she is AA reborn. I mean, clearly she is having hallucinations, which could be brought on by the fever, lack of food, etc. etc. But these fans who worship the silver-haired, purple-eyed "fairest woman in the world" can't see beyond any of her good points and recognize the bad/mad ones. That's too bad.

[Bolivar]

After reading the chapter on my DwD re-read last night, I'm convinced she's still fire resistant. George has changed his mind since 15 years ago, or he left it ambiguous back then.

Writers do not maintain firm pictures of exactly how every detail of a story will play out before they finish writing it. Especially if that tale is supposed to span multiple novels.

[ab aeterno]

After reading the chapter on my DwD re-read last night, I'm convinced she's still fire resistant. George has changed his mind since 15 years ago, or he left it ambiguous back then.

Writers do not maintain firm pictures of exactly how every detail of a story will play out before they finish writing it. Especially if that tale is supposed to span multiple novels.

All I'm going to say is that according to some of the most dedicated posters here, GRRM said that she was no longer fire resistant/immune, though she may be tolerant of relatively high heat, circa 2003 when he was writting AFFC which originally was the same book as ADWD and now runs alongside it. So it's more recent than fifteen years, and contemporary to the latest two books.

I think she can tolerate a bit more heat than others (in fact, I recall GRRM said exactly this in a SSM) but I don't think she's "resistant" or "immune" to fire. In my view, if flame touches her skin, she's gonna get burned.

ETA--Here is the SSM I was referring to:

"Shaw: Are all the Targaryans immune to fire?

Martin: No, no Targaryans are immune to fire. The thing with Dany and the dragons, that was just a one-time magical event, very special and unique. The Targaryans can tolerate a bit more heat than most ordinary people, they like really hot baths and things like that, but that doesn't mean they're totally immune to fire, no. Dragons, on the other hand, are pretty much immune to fire."

This interview is from 2003, back when George was in the middle of writing AFFC/ADWD.

Credit to Dragonfish obviously.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

After reading the chapter on my DwD re-read last night, I'm convinced she's still fire resistant. George has changed his mind since 15 years ago, or he left it ambiguous back then.

Writers do not maintain firm pictures of exactly how every detail of a story will play out before they finish writing it. Especially if that tale is supposed to span multiple novels.

1. It's been much more recent than "15 years ago."

2. At the time he made the statement, he was writing what would eventually become ADWD. It's not like he made the statement, sat out of it completely for a decade, and then picked up again and did a 180. He would have been answering questions like this with the book he was currently writing in mind.

Do people think that ADWD just popped up out of nowhere in July '11? :dunno:

[tze]

After reading the chapter on my DwD re-read last night, I'm convinced she's still fire resistant.

You read a chapter in which she has burns on her skin and decided she must logically be fire resistant? Really?

George has changed his mind since 15 years ago, or he left it ambiguous back then.

Honestly, I have no idea how anyone can claim GRRM must logically have changed his mind on Dany not being fireproof. Even leaving aside the fact that he's clarified Dany's lack of fire immunity on multiple occasions---people, she has burned skin in her final chapter in ADWD! There's really no more obvious way for the author to convey "Dany can be burned" than by showing Dany with burns. Claiming that GRRM can change his mind and make her fire resistant ignores the fact that, wait a minute, he wrote her as having burned skin, and therefore pretty obviously hasn't changed his mind about her lack of fireproofedness. Authors who want to show characters being unburnable tend not to illustrate such fireproof-ness by having those characters suffer burns.

[Dr. Pepper]

I don't buy your answer, A head full of hair cannot burn to the root without skin injury to the neck or scalp from common sense point of view. link your conflicting scientific answer with examples to this quote or otherwise shut up about it. I have common sense on my side, you have vague references to something someone said with zero links or real world examples (if that applies to ASOIAF at all.. lets assume it does for simplicity).

I have anecdotal evidence on my side that hair can certainly burn to the root without burning or blistering the skin. I was a stupid young girl at one point and decided that waving a flaming stick above my head would be AWESOME and the fire fell onto the back of my head, burned off several inches, straight to the root, yet the skin at my neck and scalp was only barely red....and probably only because I was hitting myself so hard trying to douse the flames. I have also seen someone who had a citronella candle explode in their face. It singed off every piece of facial hair but did not burn the skin.

There's also a PSA thread that has chemists explain the science behind hair burning without affecting the skin.

Whether or not you choose to disregard the fact that Dany was nursing burns after the pit incident, there's also the pretty big fact that Dany herself doesn't act like someone who thinks she's fireproof. She's not walking into fires and she definitely isn't smiling when Drogon decides to fire up his furnace. She's terrified and jumping out of the way. Does that strike you as a person who truly believes they are immune to fire?

[DaveRoid]

She is fire proof end of story. The fact that so many folks are so riled up about something that is so obvious, so Occam's razeesque (a word?) just shows how DWD has made Danny's character unlikable and therefore "unworthy" of anything good.

The dude dark sister basically calls out "danny worshippers" and then claims to be unbiased. HAR!

[Dragonfish]

She is fire proof end of story. The fact that so many folks are so riled up about something that is so obvious, so Occam's razeesque (a word?) just shows how DWD has made Danny's character unlikable and therefore "unworthy" of anything good.

The dude dark sister basically calls out "danny worshippers" and then claims to be unbiased. HAR!

It has nothing do with bias. I have pointed out you several times now that I don't dislike Dany's character. People are arguing against your points because they have been shown to be wrong, both by the text and by the author himself.

[Francis Buck]

She is fire proof end of story. The fact that so many folks are so riled up about something that is so obvious, so Occam's razeesque (a word?) just shows how DWD has made Danny's character unlikable and therefore "unworthy" of anything good.

The dude dark sister basically calls out "danny worshippers" and then claims to be unbiased. HAR!

This is so ignorant that it would be hilarious, if I wasn't so frustrated.

[DaveRoid]

I have anecdotal evidence on my side that hair can certainly burn to the root without burning or blistering the skin. I was a stupid young girl at one point and decided that waving a flaming stick above my head would be AWESOME and the fire fell onto the back of my head, burned off several inches, straight to the root, yet the skin at my neck and scalp was only barely red....and probably only because I was hitting myself so hard trying to douse the flames. I have also seen someone who had a citronella candle explode in their face. It singed off every piece of facial hair but did not burn the skin.

Having couple of strands of hair on fire and putting them out with your hand is far different than your whole hair--in Danny's case we can assume she had long hair as girls do-- on fire so that folks running from a dragon & in chaos still noticed it mid-air. In case of long hair the fire would have run up her neck, then to her skull, then flame out at skull's skin when it had nothing else to burn. Also take note that fire fed with air is far more lively and drogon was flapping his wings at the time which would have fed the flames further. Danny was also holding on to dear life with her hands so she couldn't try to snuff the flame out realisticly without falling to her death. Try to picture it guys: whole head on fire, people seeing it from bellow saying Danny was burning & dead.

Add those to the fact that she compares her experience to the pye and says "the fire did not touch her" then there is a world of ambiguity there if not certainty that she is highly resistant to high temperatures. Also she barely dodges Dragon fire aimed at her at a close distance without any injury. SHE SURVIVES A DRAGON FIRE PROJECTILE PASSING RIGHT BY HER HEAD.

Now I remember something else as well that we haven't discussed, someone post the text when she pulls the spear out of Drogon's back... Does she touch close to the metal at any point? If so I remember NO mention of immediate pain or burns.. weird how a little "normal" "dragon rider" girl can pull a molten spear out with bare hands in her POV & not mention any sever pain at the time then go on clutching with both hands on Drogon's back. A normal person would pull their hands back instinctively & still suffer sever burns the second their hands touched something that hot.

There is just too much Danny+Fire=Survives there for anyone with common sense to not see a an obvious answer.