IS Dany still the Unburnt?

[ab aeterno]

Why don't you make me a diagram on why she isn't resistant?

I have to admit, @ Dragonfish, I would like to see the diagram. ;) With lots of bright colors for the fire!

[The Dornishman's Wife]

ETA--Here is the SSM I was referring to:

"Shaw: Are all the Targaryans immune to fire?

Martin: No, no Targaryans are immune to fire. The thing with Dany and the dragons, that was just a one-time magical event, very special and unique. The Targaryans can tolerate a bit more heat than most ordinary people, they like really hot baths and things like that, but that doesn't mean they're totally immune to fire, no. Dragons, on the other hand, are pretty much immune to fire."

Wow, I wasn't aware of that piece of GRRM-speak before. Thanks for digging that up, I didn't know that there was an even more explicit statement of his than the one that was quoted earlier in this thread.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Another part of george's writing in the pit.

"Drogon roared full in her face, his breath hot enough to blister skin."

How come he didn't blister her skin. She never says her face is blistered.

Another line soon after. dany thinks "he is fire made flesh, and so am I." Strange words if she isn't.

[tze]

Another part of george's writing in the pit.

"Drogon roared full in her face, his breath hot enough to blister skin."

How come he didn't blister her skin. She never says her face is blistered.

Because Drogon's breath is obviously not actually hot enough to blister skin here, given that no skin is blistered. Dany is clearly using a metaphor here, since she obviously doesn't have any way of measuring the exact amount of heat Drogon's breath here gives off, and it's not like another person was standing next to Dany and getting his/her skin blistered by the same blast of dragon breath while Dany's skin was untouched. She's exaggerating here. The breath that hit Dany wasn't hot enough to literally blister skin, and that's why her skin wasn't blistered.

Another line soon after. dany thinks "he is fire made flesh, and so am I." Strange words if she isn't.

. . . She's wrong. It's called being an unreliable narrator.

[Lykos]

<snip>

"Drogon roared full in her face, his breath hot enough to blister skin."

How come he didn't blister her skin. She never says her face is blistered.

Another line soon after. dany thinks "he is fire made flesh, and so am I." Strange words if she isn't.

Dany also says to herself, "you´re the blood of the dragon, you can make a hat.". Only to find out that she can´t.

Now you, as she have to live with her being Dany the Sunburnt.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Dany also says to herself, "you´re the blood of the dragon, you can make a hat.". Only to find out that she can´t.

Now you, as she have to live with her being Dany the Sunburnt.

Dragons don't make hats. The sun is no dragon a sunburn is different than a fire burn.

And who are you to say its a metaphor? Unreliable narrator. So the dragons are not capable of breathing fire? Here I thought they could. we must be reading different books

[Lykos]

liam stark, dragons might make excellent hats. :laugh: Sorry, but you really know how to provoke silly answers. So you don´t have to live with Dany being not fireproof, only the Dany in GRRM´s story does.

You made the statement that, "Drogon roared full in her face, his breath hot enough to blister skin." and tze made you aware of the technique of the unreliable narrator.

I gave you an example where Dany makes a statement that is instantly prooven untrue.

I think that it fit quite well because Dany used it to reassure herself of her specialness, which she needs to keep her going, since her confidence is shaken.

She knows that she could have died in the pit by a crossbow bolt as well as by a serious dragonfire blast that really hit her. The way I see it Drogon is like a wolf raised by Dany. They know each other very well, so when Drogon is attacked while feeding and he strikes back Dany knows how to dodge the flames and Drogon will have pulled back as much as possible, when he recognized her.

Of course he breathes fire, we are told so by at least four different characters, but that gives us only the information that her hair burnt catching fire in the dragonflame. This is actually a confirmation that she wasn´t hit by a full blast, because people would have been unable to discern her burning hair from the dragon flame. It also makes sense for dragons to be able to adjust the heat of their fire in order to char their food just right and not burning it to ashes.

It might be helpfull for you if you´d listened to some of Martins latest interviews, at no point does he say that he changed his mind about no Targaryens being imune to fire and he also explains that he is interested in the trouble good poeple have, when given power. He gives the example of Aragorn becoming king and everything is hunky-dory suddenly in the "Lord of the Rings". He explicitly states that he is telling a different story, where he examines how power works. Here is an interesting thread on that.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Blah blah blah blah blah. Your blinding my eyes. (:

Just stop, lmao Hunky dory. XD

Immune to fire is I suppose impossible. As the dragons proved in the doom. Resistance to fire is not a lufacris idea. At least not to me. And no matter how hard you try. As I said before unless your name is George Martin your not gunna change my mind about dany.

[DaveRoid]

Because its the right interpretation.

She is not really MOTHER of dragons or literally a Bride of FIre. She fluked a spell. Now her titles are a boast. If i survived swallowing a Valyrian Steel sword and worked it out through my arse i would surely add a few titles to my name too.

GRRM has already stated she is not immune and it was a one time magical event. If you think he will suddenly change his mind on this then you are clinging to a deeply flawed hope.

Fluked a spell? prove it. She should never have known a fire protection spell.A blood for blood spell was all the witch knew and she burned in the fire herself.

[DaveRoid]

Because Drogon's breath is obviously not actually hot enough to blister skin here.

Then you are full of it, Dragon fire is the hottest fire in the world. if she just ducked it and felt the heat her skin should have burned. Same with her skull.

You guys have nothing on those points. why her skull was not burned and how she "just ducked" under streams of fire that was hotter than molten lava yet got nothing to show for it.

To another poster, she can feel the heat but her body wont burn because of her dragon blood. That's the argument here.

[Dragonfish]

Then you are full of it, Dragon fire is the hottest fire in the world.

Yes, but the fire didn't hit her, as has been pointed out multiple times.

To another poster, she can feel the heat but her body wont burn because of her dragon blood. That's the argument here.

And the author has repeatedly said that you are wrong. Why do you have so much trouble accepting this?

[DaveRoid]

Yes, but the fire didn't hit her, as has been pointed out multiple times.

The fire passed right by her head. Set her hair on fire. The heat from something that deadly should have burned her skin if it passed so close. Also her scalp should have at-least some injury when her hair burned to the root. She was riding Drogon at the time with both hands clutching his back, she had no way to put out the fire from reaching her skin that is why her hair was completely burned to the root, yet we hear of no burns on her scalp skin, neck or otherwise.

And the author has repeatedly said that you are wrong. Why do you have so much trouble accepting this?

Repeatedly? show me a text other than the 15 year old interview. Even in that interview when asked if Danny will experience the same situation as the pyre again he says "Probably not". You lot are hanging all your eggs on a "probably" from an author that is known for changing his mind and being ambiguous. The show and the DwD events are more recent and take precedence on what is going to happen.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Are we seriously still arguing this? It makes my head hurt and it's terribly bad for my liver.

Every time someone incorrectly says that Dany is fireproof, God crane-kicks a golden retriever puppy. Do you want that on your conscience?

As for Dany's last chapter in Dance — the girl is walking about with burn wounds on her hands telling herself that she had a fireproof episode. Obviously she friggin' didn't. She also thinks she can't get sick, and yet she somehow knows what the onset of a fever feels like. This is what's known as an unreliable narrator and it makes me want to yank my hair out that people still haven't cottoned onto it, and worse, are using the show as if it's some sort of canon that has a bearing on the books.

There are several very good threads on the forums dissecting Targs' fire-proofness (or lack thereof, specifically) and her first (and only) experience in the funeral pyre. Go find them.

Arguments like this make me want her to go full Targ-crazy and go down in literal flames, just to end this madness and willful stubbornness already.

[Dragonfish]

The fire passed right by her head. Set her hair on fire.

The only flame that went near her was the one she darted underneath, and we've no indication that it passed "right by" her head. Her hair could easily have caught on fire from simply brushing against the flame.

And the blistered skin? How do you explain that? How can someone who is resistant to fire get burns on her hands?

Repeatedly? show me a text other than the 15 year old interview.

There are three SSMs in which he has said that Targaryens are not immune to fire, and in two of them he has said that what happened on Drogo's pyre was a one-time event. These SSMs were submitted in 1998, 1999, and 2003. In other words, the oldest of them was submitted fourteen years ago, and the most recent one was submitted nine years ago, while he was writing AFFC/ADWD. Three times counts as "repeatedly" in my book.

The show and the DwD events are more recent and take precedence on what is going to happen.

Ok, first of all, the show never takes precedence over what the author says.

Second of all, the "recent events" you keep referring to don't actually support your argument, as has been pointed out numerous times. Just look back to one of my previous posts (#74) to see what I mean.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

There are three SSMs in which he has said that Targaryens are not immune to fire, and in two of them he has said that what happened on Drogo's pyre was a one-time event. These SSMs were submitted in 1998, 1999, and 2003. In other words, the oldest of them was submitted fourteen years ago, and the most recent one was submitted nine years ago, while he was writing AFFC/ADWD. Three times counts as "repeatedly" in my book.

I think this is a huge point that a few people are obviously missing — ADWD may have come out in 2011, but it (and Feast) had been a work in progress for years before that. It didn't just come out of thin air. GRRM may very well have had portions of ADWD in mind or even already written or plotted at the time of the most recent SSM. Given the fates of other Targs — wildfire, molten gold, dragonfire — and his repeated (and at least one time, CAPSLOCKED) insistence that Targs aren't fireproof and that includes Dany, it baffles me that people keep clinging to this.

As to the show ... maybe I need to go watch that episode again, but it looked to me like the dragons were firing off around her, not at her or through her. All of which is meaningless because, as you rightly say, the show is not bloody canon.

[DaveRoid]

As for Dany's last chapter in Dance — the girl is walking about with burn wounds on her hands telling herself that she had a fireproof episode. Obviously she friggin' didn't. She also thinks she can't get sick, and yet she somehow knows what the onset of a fever feels like. This is what's known as an unreliable narrator and it makes me want to yank my hair out that people still haven't cottoned onto it, and worse, are using the show as if it's some sort of canon that has a bearing on the books.

The burn wounds can be attributed to Dragonefire (Drogons blood on the spear she pulled out), from the pyre we know she is immune to normal fire. Dragonfire might be too much and she might just be resistant to it & not totally immune. Even then she has been riding drogon for days as per her text so its safe to say her burns were minor (and no pain is mentioned) otherwise she could not have ridden a saddle-less dragon with her bare hands.

And yes she cant get sick, even Barrtisan agree's with her assertion. She had a miscarriage in the Dotracki sea, hence pools of blood running between her legs (Read the miscarriage symptoms online, it matches closely to what is described).

There are several very good threads on the forums dissecting Targs' fire-proofness (or lack thereof, specifically) and her first (and only) experience in the funeral pyre.

And this is where a-lot of people make their mistake. She is not just another run of the mill Tygarian ffs, she is special by everything the text tells us. Births dragons for first time in a hundred years where similar methods had failed in the past.. and a rare comet just happens to appear the same night she is doing it, she didn't burn in the pyre & knew it, is called AA reborn by both Master Aemon and the high red priest of Volantis(yet the same folks who deny she is fire proff probably will expend themselves tirelessly trying to argue she is not AA,), is called Bride of fire by the undying and is subject to numouras prophecies from them including uniting the entire freaking Dotraki and as of DwD is an actual dragon rider as well as mother of dragons. etc etc

The folks who try to portray her as just another normal Tygarian despite what the actual text & events screams at them are utter fools IMO. Or just let their extreme dislike for the character wish it was otherwise.

[DaveRoid]

There are three SSMs in which he has said that Targaryens are not immune to fire, and in two of them he has said that what happened on Drogo's pyre was a one-time event. These SSMs were submitted in 1998, 1999, and 2003. In other words, the oldest of them was submitted fourteen years ago, and the most recent one was submitted nine years ago, while he was writing AFFC/ADWD. Three times counts as "repeatedly" in my book.

Ok, link me the 2003 interview, I want to see what his qoute regarding Danny is. I have never said all Tygarians are fire proof. Just Danny and other "Blood of dragons" ie something akin to 1 in 1000 wrags being green seers.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The folks who try to portray her as just another normal Tygarian despite what the actual text & events screams at them are utter fools IMO. Or just let their extreme dislike for the character wish it was otherwise.

The folks who try to portray her as some superhuman fireproof specimen of excellence despite what the text & actual events & the goddamn author screams at them are utter fools IMO. Or just let their extreme like for the character wish it was otherwise.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Ok, link me the 2003 interview, I want tos ee what his qoute regarding Danny is. I have never said all Tygarians are fire proof. Just Danny and other "Blood of dragons" ie something akin to 1 in 1000 wrags being green seers.

Except that GRRM has never said, "Targaryens are not fireproof, but Dany is a special exception." He always includes Dany in that assessment, by specifying that Targaryens aren't fireproof and that what happened with Dany was a one-time "miracle" that won't be repeated. If Dany is the special fireproof snowflake that you claim, why would GRRM not elaborate and note her as being that exception? He doesn't.

ETA: He has also never made mention of any special "greenseer"-esque Targs. It's "Targaryens are not fireproof, period." Not, "Targaryens are generally fireproof, but some of them aren't."

[Dragonfish]

Ok, link me the 2003 interview, I want tos ee what his qoute regarding Danny is.

I already linked to it in post # 76.