Sam as Maester - Time frame

[IAmNobody]

We dont know what the timefram is going to be in the next book, maybe it is going to cover a few years cosidering winter start kicking in and travel etc goes a lot slower. So maybe Sam is a maester at the end of TWOW, or he is very gifted and already learned because of his work for maester Aemon and all his reading. I think it is up to GRRM what is going to happen and without information on how many years the book is going to cover we have no idea what is going to happen. One book to cover a few years would also help to get all the stark kids a little bit older.

I doubt the book would cover a few years. We can't expect the final battle with the Others till the last book, which will be called A Dream of Spring. I understand that this winter will be extra long, but I always believed that "The Cold Winds are Rising" was an overstatement at the present time, and true winter is still far away. Which would put a dream of spring ever farther away.

Also I doubt GRRM wants the kids to get much older. We won't be seeing too much of Rickon except through Davos' eyes, and the rest have pretty much carved their niche, and GRRM seems comfortable writing about them at those ages.

I presume him to finish his chain in two or three years after arriving in the Citadel, which is already some time ago.

Do we know that TWoW will be set after a gap following ADwD, more than a few months? Two years seems way too much time to jump forward. A lot of players would have to be in stasis, and if we know anything about Westeros, it's that things have a way of happening suddenly and quickly.

Plus, the Theon/Reek and Arianne sample chapters suggest that the events of TWoW are not more than a few days following the events of ADwD.

[IAmNobody]

Jon just seems to be looking ahead. What he wants is maesters now, so has requested they are sent. Sam will take a while to forge one yes, but bear in mind the others have been lurking around the wall for thousands of years, and seem to be really quite slothful even in the recent books.

I suspect Sam's storyline will be involved in the politics, secrets and importantly dragon sentiment within the citadel, of which we've only just been given hints.

I wondered what Jon was thinking sending Sam to the Citadel. I understand he was looking ahead and that he could get other maesters from the citadel by writing to them, but Sam was probably the only one who could effectively forage through the libraries of Castle Black and learn any secrets of the Others there might be down there. To send away Sam at a time that is crucial to the war against the Others (Jon doesn't really know when the Others will attack, does he?) seems like a bad move on the part of a LC. I wonder how many agree with me.

hmm I doubt Sam will ever forge a chain considering Martin's tendency to throw spanners in long term plans, such as cersei's plan to send ned to the wall, robb planning on retaking the north, Jon planning on assigning some fortresses along the wall with wildlings as part of his larger plan to defend the realm from the whitewalkers and danny's plan for peace with the yunkai. There are many more instances where things don't go to plan in aSoIaF so I very much doubt Sam will finish his chain.

I imagine that the original plan was for Sam to graduate, or at least gain several links of his chain, in the infamous five year gap that has now disappeared from the series' timeline.

On the other hand, there is nothing to say that GRRM's plan for Sam was to ever have hime GET his maester's chain - it is simply Jon's wish/plan for Sam. Having Sam in Oldtown may be all that the plot/GRRM requires.

Agreed, he may be forced to work on forging a link or two, but whether he gets there is a question up in the air. But what will be his reaction to the attack on Jon is what I wonder? Will Sam the Slayer come back to the Wall if he thinks Jon is dead? Or will he stick at the Citadel as Jon's last wish? If so, WHAT could possibly make Sam leave the Citadel?

Sam doesn't know that he could benefit from Marwyn or his boys, does he? Neither did Jon when he sent him there. So Sam's presence at the Citadel seems a bit contrived. It wouldn't have been too hard for GRRM to introduce Alleras as a POV, would it? The politics of the Citadel seem like the last thing that should concern Sam right now. He KNOWS what's waiting on the other side of the Wall. I doubt he would waste time in the hope that Marwyn's boys will teach him something important. And he would waste less time fighting with Maesters and Archmaesters at the Citadel.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Do we know that TWoW will be set after a gap following ADwD, more than a few months? Two years seems way too much time to jump forward. A lot of players would have to be in stasis, and if we know anything about Westeros, it's that things have a way of happening suddenly and quickly.

Plus, the Theon/Reek and Arianne sample chapters suggest that the events of TWoW are not more than a few days following the events of ADwD.

We know that there will be no gap at all between Dance and Winds, but it's Winter now. Travel slows down, anything slows down. At a Storm pace, Winds could easily cover two years, maybe three. For example, Game covered almost two years on it's own. Clash most of a year, Storm half a year, Feast and Dance together cover another year or very close to it, depending on the PoV.

[The BlackBear]

I wondered what Jon was thinking sending Sam to the Citadel. I understand he was looking ahead and that he could get other maesters from the citadel by writing to them, but Sam was probably the only one who could effectively forage through the libraries of Castle Black and learn any secrets of the Others there might be down there. To send away Sam at a time that is crucial to the war against the Others (Jon doesn't really know when the Others will attack, does he?) seems like a bad move on the part of a LC. I wonder how many agree with me.

Also was probably a good excuse for moving Aemon away from Burny-Burny-Wierdly-Sexy Mel.

And yeah the books must follow immediately, as GRRM has said battles he wanted to put in Dance he moved to Winds. The battle for Mereen is beginning at the end. And the Reek chapter is clearly very soon after the escape.

[IAmNobody]

Also was probably a good excuse for moving Aemon away from Burny-Burny-Wierdly-Sexy Mel.

And yeah the books must follow immediately, as GRRM has said battles he wanted to put in Dance he moved to Winds. The battle for Mereen is beginning at the end. And the Reek chapter is clearly very soon after the escape.

But was saving Aemon from Mel worth sending Sam away? He could have sent Aemon with anybody else! It's not like it would have changed anything. Either way Stannis wasn't going to approve. By sending Aemon with someone else, Jon gets to keep Sam.

Another thing I just recalled - Jon says that the idea of sending Sam to the Citadel was as much Maester Aemon's idea as it was his own. Or was he only referring to sending Gilly, the babe, and Maester Aemon himself?

If it was Maester Aemon's idea, then Aemon must have thought it through. I find it hard to believe that Aemon came to the same conclusion as Jon with regard to Sam.

Also, do we know if Aemon and Marwyn were acquainted with each other?

[The BlackBear]

Also, do we know if Aemon and Marwyn were acquainted with each other?

Aware? Certainly. Aquainted? I doubt it. Aemon left for the wall in when Egg came to the throne, some 67 years before his own death, and seemingly never left. Unless Marwyn made a decision to travel to the wall, I fail to see how they'd meet. And Marwyn gave no hint of knowing him to Sam.

[EnragedFilia]

There's no way they would have met personally, but Marwyn does indicate to Sam that he knows about Aemon, and especially his significance to the Citadel's long-term plans.

[The Dragon has three heads]

Fear is the Path to the Grey side. Fear leads to Disinheritance, Disinheritance leads to the wall, the wall leads to the Citadel.

Standing at the bar getting weird look for laughing my arse off.

[Tall-Talker]

Jon wanted him to become a maester but I don't think he'll fulfill it.

IMO the story needed him there to help unravel the mysteries of whatever is going on in the Citadel. This includes Jaquen, the candles, the WWs, and the dragons.

He still hasn't found out about Jon. Perhaps that will discourage him.

Or maybe something supernatural happens to Jon (an actual PTWP) which causes Sam to abandon the maesterhood and go back north with some vital piece of information.

[the Scorpion Knight]

It will take ages for Sam to forge his maester's chain. At least a couple of years. Will Sam's PoV move away from the Citadel? Will he rush to the Wall when he hears of Jon's death/resurrection? Or will we get to see more Sarella, Pate/Jaqen and old windbag Maesters? Is that Sam's purpose now?

spitting in Euron and the FM soup together with aeronby killing jaqen and escaping with the magic department of the citadel to horn hill

[PatrickStormborn]

We know that there will be no gap at all between Dance and Winds, but it's Winter now. Travel slows down, anything slows down. At a Storm pace, Winds could easily cover two years, maybe three. For example, Game covered almost two years on it's own. Clash most of a year, Storm half a year, Feast and Dance together cover another year or very close to it, depending on the PoV.

I don't know what sort of timescale you're using, but this seems far from correct. There is no way that this novel is covering three years -- that's the same as all five novels combined! AGoT starts in the year 298 (excluding Dany which starts a bit earlier), and spans roughly between 9-12 months -- definitely not two years. ACoK, ASoS, AFfC and ADwD all covered less than AGoT -- probably about six months each.

[Adam H]

I'd be ok if we never see Sam again. Not that I dislike him or his chapters, I just think that it makes the most sense. I doubt he would leave the citadel for any reason other than the Lord Commander explicitly calling him back to the wall, and it should take him at least several long and boring years of study to forge his chain. For all we know, there's nothing going on in the Citadel that's worth showing. I mean, if Jaqen kills someone or steals something, then we could just find that out whenever it actually impacts the story.

[Ser Pink of Floyd]

Doesnt a long summer mean theres going to be a long winter, and its been a very long summer. If Sam sticks it out, I reckon he's got atleast 5years of winter to train in, if not a lot longer.

I doubt Sam will complete the course and finish his chain, not in the books time frame and within the narrative. Sam is clearly going to find something, something important and crucial to whatever is going to happen over the next 2 books and will abandon his chain making periodically,

[Men in their cups say...]

Yeah Sam's gonna be a Halfmaester. Hopefully not like Qyburn. More like Haldon ala (F)Aegon. JonCon puts a whole lot of faith in that citadel dropout.....

[Ser Dylen of the Green Oak]

If Sam was going to forge a chain at the Citadel, I'm sure he would have waited to meet with the other Archmaester rather than running off to see Marwyn with Alleras. I'm pretty sure that the little gang mentioned in the AFFC prologue are going to be the main focus of this part of the story.

[koststerg]

A crazy theory of mine is that the Others are much stronger than we think and once the Wall is breached and it's magic is broken armies of wights and Others will start landing in different coastlines around the world (Pyke, Bravos, north coastline of Essos, and maybe even more south like Pentos and OldTown) so Sam's presense there could give us a POV of such an attack. Remember the frozen (and burned) KingLandings in Dany's visions (the HBO version)

[The BlackBear]

A crazy theory of mine is that the Others are much stronger than we think and once the Wall is breached and it's magic is broken armies of wights and Others will start landing in different coastlines around the world (Pyke, Bravos, north coastline of Essos, and maybe even more south like Pentos and OldTown) so Sam's presense there could give us a POV of such an attack. Remember the frozen (and burned) KingLandings in Dany's visions (the HBO version)

They could well do, but Westeros is the only continent that seems to have a permanent route to the North, i.e. landmass. Eben doesn't have this, it has a northerly island (related to iceland.) To put it simply South of the Neck is like Russia to Germany (in the FWW) once it's done they can practically hit anywhere.

Admittedly I hope Sam (obviously named after Samwise (more important than Frodo (I feel))) will have a bigger role than just passive story teller. He is capable of bravery of his own kind, and I want him to show it.

[Dumptruck]

sam was the protege of the oldest living maester Aemon Targaryen. i dont know that he, or the readers really have seen the full function of that. i expect him to excel quickly while the establishment tries to humble him. on the wall a man gets what hes earned and i see him recieving quite a bit of "life study credits"

also note that hes introduced in oldtown with a splinter group of intellectual radicals. marwyn is departing soon and if conflict arises i wouldnt be surprised to see sam in a leadership role. black sam the slayer hardened by the wall, slimmer through poverty and daily exercise (rowing) cuts quite a different figure then samwell's original introduction at the wall.

its also his plotline. the death maester aemon and his encounter with gilly are sam "becoming a man" the man jon saw is the one showing up at oldtown and i cant wait to see how the grey sheep try to reign him in

Now we are talking Sam comes back hard as salt beef. With the Knights Watch in chaos those without crimes against the realm can renter their houses. Sam leads a force defeating White Walkers, Boltons and Frays he delivers The Lord of Winterfell whomever that is and Lord Tarly weeps at Sams feet to please forgive him and be his heir.

Until Sam comes into his lands he becomes Hand to the King lived by the people, he creates a understanding between the wildlings and the realm. Loved by the people he is Sam the just, Sam the Good, the bravest man the realm has ever known.

Wait this is GRRM, Sam might wind up naked in a sky cell with Mord having the Man crush of all time with Sam the Giant scaredy cat.

[Whitering]

Bran left the Wall because we needed a PoV at the Citadel apparently. Their is an FM there doing lord knows what, hanging out with an enigmatic magician Maester and a Sand Snake incognito; quite the group. I guess the new Pate probably sees right through Alleras.

The books so far seem to have taken up 2.5 years or so. Yes, I have my problems with this, five year gap or now, the Stark kids were too young. Arya is probably close to 12 years old right now. Given that my 4 year old niece can use an IPAD way better than I can, I won't doubt the youth, but I would like it better if she were 14-15.

Sam may be pressed into service when the Others come knocking whether he has his chain or not.

[sumant30]

I think GRRM does not intend to Sam to forge his chain, actually a new chain events have been started as sam has reached oldtown also i don't think sam will stay for long in old town when he hears of jon's death.He will probably rush to the wall or to his father.