Rereading Tyrion II (AGOT-ACOK)

[voodooqueen126]

Hmm I recall the sphinx was the beast that set the riddle 'what walks on four legs in the morning, two legs at midday and three legs in the evening', was that in Oedipus Rex or were Sphinxes involved in that play (surly not I must be getting mixed up there was enough going on with the incest and patricide)?

What kind of beast was a sphinx - what was it a cross between? Is it something about it's duel nature that is the riddle? That might point us at various people.

From Wikipedia:

The Sphinx is said to have guarded the entrance to the Greek city of Thebes, and to have asked a riddle of travellers to allow them passage. The exact riddle asked by the Sphinx was not specified by early tellers of the stories, and was not standardized as the one given below until late in Greek history.^[10]

It was said in late lore that Hera or Ares sent the Sphinx from her Ethiopian homeland (the Greeks always remembered the foreign origin of the Sphinx) to Thebes in Greece where she asks all passersby the most famous riddle in history: "Which creature walks on four legs in the morning, two legs in the afternoon, and three legs in the evening?" She strangled and devoured anyone unable to answer. Oedipus solved the riddle by answering: Man—who crawls on all fours as a baby, then walks on two feet as an adult, and then walks with a cane in old age. By some accounts^[11] (but much more rarely), there was a second riddle: "There are two sisters: one gives birth to the other and she, in turn, gives birth to the first. Who are the two sisters?" The answer is "day and night" (both words are feminine in Greek). This riddle is also found in a Gascon version of the myth and could be very ancient.^[12]

Bested at last, the tale continues, the Sphinx then threw herself from her high rock and died. An alternative version tells that she devoured herself. Thus Oedipus can be recognized as a "liminal" or threshold figure, helping effect the transition between the old religious practices, represented by the death of the Sphinx, and the rise of the new, Olympian gods.

[anonymouseuser]

From Wikipedia:

There was a second riddle: "There are two sisters: one gives birth to the other and she, in turn, gives birth to the first. Who are the two sisters?" The answer is "day and night" (both words are feminine in Greek). This riddle is also found in a Gascon version of the myth and could be very ancient.^[12]

Bested at last, the tale continues, the Sphinx then threw herself from her high rock and died. An alternative version tells that she devoured herself. Thus Oedipus can be recognized as a "liminal" or threshold figure, helping effect the transition between the old religious practices, represented by the death of the Sphinx, and the rise of the new, Olympian gods.

Given what we've seen in the books so far both of these are very interesting: Day and night - summer and winter, old gods vs. new order.

[evita mgfs]

I am posting my observations before I continue to read other posts so I will not be impacted by other hypotheses. I did read posts after my first posts, and then I spent too long going back to add analysis that scopes out more players in this game of thrones. Now I have to rest it and just post instead of obsessing over how stupid my ideas may sound, or whether or not I am following the directions for this reread. :blushing: I apologize in advance if my ideas are abominations.

Similarities between Tyrion Lannister as represented in Tyrion POV #1 of CoK and [some backtracking to GoT] Odysseus in the Odyssey follow. My thesis is that Martin’s cunning dwarf is very like Homer’s “man of twists and turns” Odysseus. I like to think that Martin’s Tyrion is not unlike an epic hero in his work, a small man with a big mind on his own odyssey that takes him to distant lands, to meet new people, and learn many lessons, much like resourceful Odysseus who wanders from land to land, blown off course in uncharted waters, always searching for home, always pining for his wife. In Tyrion’s world he encounters multiple cyclopean characters, blind to the reality in which they live. Such as Ser Mandon Moore, Cersei, Lady Lysa Arryn, Mord, and others.

A kind poster pointed out that I did not address Athene, the protector of Odysseus – so I declare Bronn as Tyrion’s Athene. I am still posting separately due to length.

FYI, I use Fagel’s translation of the Odyssey of Homer.

1. The Lion as a Link between Tyrion and Odysseus:
   

• Tyrion’s house sigil is the lion:
  

Example from A Clash of Kings, First Tyrion POV: Shae says,

“My lion . . . my sweet lord, my giant of Lannister” (69).

• Odysseus is compared to a lion in seven separate similes in Homer’s Odyssey, according to William T. Magrath (vs. 30+ in the Iliad); (http://ancienthistor...ysseyXXII_3.htm)
  
  
• After landing naked on the isle of the Phaeacians, Odysseus uses an olive branch to cover his private parts and confront Princess Nausicaa: “And out he stalked / As a mountain lion exultant in his power / Strides through wind and rain and his eyes blaze” (Fagels 6. 140-`143).
  
  
• “The lion is a symbol for “deathless courage, strength, fearlessness, bravery and royalty . . . Seen as the lord of the land . . . Lion is one of the favorite symbols of leadership, warriors . . . and emperors have long included it on their coat of arms to symbolize supreme strength” (http://www.animal-sy...ion-symbol.html).
  
  
• Both Tyrion and Odysseus embody characteristics of what a lion represents symbolically.
  

1. Violation of Laws of Hospitality
   

• Tyrion is ill-used as a guest at the Vale of Arryn, as he announces in CoK, Tyrion’s POV #1: In response to Cersei stating Tyrion belongs on the battle line, he replies, in part: “ ‘I’d sooner hold a wine goblet than a battle-axe . . . . Compared to the hospitality I enjoyed in the Vale of Arryn, drums, horseshit, and fly bites are my favorite things’” (55).
  
  
• Lady Lysa throws Tyrion in a sky cell, and she does not treat him favorably.
  
  
• She warns Tyrion to guard his tongue, “”Imp . . . you will guard that mocking tongue of yours and speak to my son politely, or I promise you will have cause to regret it” (413).
  
  
• Tyrion is abused under the laws of hospitality as a prisoner with a nasty guard named Mord. Well, according to Tyrion, and I am on his side.
  
  
• Littlefinger seems to agree with Tyrion about the Arryn’s lack of hospitality during the small council meeting in CoK. LF laughs at Tyrion’s remark, and then says, “Well said, Lannister. A man after my own heart” (55).
  
  
• Evidently the Arryns are remiss in regards to hospitality, especially with Lady Arryn as hostess. Tyrion’s stay in the sky cells is so bad that he even prefers the discomforts of war to more time in a sky cell.
  
  
• Lysa is Tyrion’s Cyclops, the blind force – “Lysa Arryn and her half-sane weakling son had not yet known at court for their love of wit, especially when it was directed at them” (GoT 413) - who blames [falsely?] Tyrion for her husband’s death.
  
  
• [On my first read, I thought Lysa was blind with grief for her dead husband and prepared to take vengeance on any Lannister: and after the king’s WF visit, the kingslayer and Cersei’s incest, and what Jaime does to Bran, and the incident at Darry?, with Lady’s death – I believed the Lannisters capable of any sin against the gods!] Now I realize Lysa’s motives are more sinister, more complicated.
  
  
• Like Tyrion’s preference for a goblet of wine over the battlefields, Odysseus wants to avoid the battlegrounds of Troy to stay home in Ithaca where his bride and newborn son reside, rather than fight by the sides of the Atreides, Agamemnon and Menelaus. So the cunning Odysseus schemes: he feigns insanity to dodge the draft. But his ruse is discovered, and he must join his fellow Argives on the battlefield that is the sack of Troy.
  
  
• Another unfortunate experience with violations of the guest right occurs with Odysseus and twelve of his men who are made prisoners of the Cyclops. He traps Odysseus and his scouting party in his cave, and he intends to gobble up all in his own good time. The Cyclops is cannibalistic and not very hospitable. He devours six of Odysseus’ men. “‘Your filthy crimes / Came down on your head, you shameless cannibal, Daring to eat your guests in your own house – / So Zeus and the other gods have paid you back!’” (Fagels 9.531-536)
  
  
• Lysa does not eat her guests; she makes them “fly”.
  
  
• Lysa says the Eyrie is impregnable.
  
  
• Odysseus describes the Cyclops blocking the cave – “Then to close his door he hoisted overhead / a tremendous, massive slab - / no twenty-two wagons rugged and four-wheeled, / could budge that boulder off the ground, I tell you, / such an immense stone the monster wedged to block the cave!” (Fagels 9. 271-275).
  

Tyrion and Odysseus find themselves in quite a pickle, and they must really use their wit to weave their way through a virtual Skylla and Charybdis. Tyrion does well to keep away from the ledge, and to learn to mind his tongue with all the empty sky so close. He is trapped by an air that is every bit as formidable as Odysseus’ boulder counterpart. Both have tricks up their sleeves that will prove their scheming superiority.

• Mord is Tyrion’s Cyclops when Lysa is not around. He threatens that Tyrion will “fly” in 20 or 30 days, the same way the Cyclops promises that he will eat all of Odysseus’ party, and Odysseus last. Mord is like the Cyclops who blocks Odysseus from freedom. Tyrion must outwit Mord, and Lady Lysa, to escape, the same way Odysseus must outwit the Cyclops.
  
  
• Tyrion calls Mord names: “You f-king son of a pox-ridden ass . . . I hope you die of a bloody flux” (GoT 411).
  
  
• Odysseus says to the Cyclops, “‘Would to god I could strip you / of life and ship you down to the House of Death / as sure as no one will ever heal your eye, / not even your earthquake god himself!’ (9. 580-583).
  
  
• Tyrion reflects on himself, “For a small man he was cursed with a dangerously big mouth” (411), and likewise, Odysseus “could not bring my fighting spirit round” (9.557). His fighting spirit is his hot-head and big mouth.
  

Also, in GoT, Tyrion repents his big mouth more than once.

1. But Tyrion had been too foul for sense” (413).
   
   
2. If only he had shut his mouth” (412).
   

• Tyrion wheels and deals with Mord to get him to take a message,
  
  
• Odysseus says he will tell Cyclops his name only if, “But you must give me a guest gift / as you’ve promised. Nobody – that’s my name. Nobody . . . ” (9.409-410).
  
  
• Similarly, Odysseus’ crew “check him”, try to “calm” him, “left and right” (9.549). ‘So headstrong – why? Why rile the beast again?’ (9.550). But Odysseus cannot control his fighting spirit, and throws even further insults.
  
  
• Tyrion says to Mord that a Lannister pays his debts.
  
  
• Odysseus says to the Cyclops that it is Odysseus who blinded you, “shamed you so – say Odysseus, /raider of cities, he gouged your eye/Laertes’ son who makes his home in Ithaca’” (9.561563).
  
  
• Cyclops discloses that a prophet once warned him that someday he’d be blinded by one Odysseus:
  
  
• 
  

Some fighter clad in power like armor plate, but now,

Look what a dwarf, a spineless good-for-nothing,

Stuns me with wine, thengouges out my eye!

Come here, Odysseus, let me give you a guest-gift

and urge Poseidon the earthquake god to speed you home.

I am his son and he claims to be my father, true,

and he himself will hear me if he pleases- ’” (9.571-576),

Polyphemus’ quote names Odysseus dwarf and good-for-nothing, names that echo a dwarf in Martin’s work.To Odysseus, Polyphemus is a giant, although Odysseus lacks the height of other heroes, so he is shorter than most, a fact Polyphemus enjoys pointing out.Similarly, Tyrion is a dwarf who is viewed upon by other men as less than homely, mismatched eyes and broad forehead to boot, but Martin’s small hero and Homer’s small hero have big brains to outwit others.

1. Perhaps the host or hostess of these maligned captives will be punished with the help of the gods for their hostile treatment toward their guests?
   
   
2. Tyrion’s Athene is Bronn, who like Odysseus’ Athene, provides a “plot armor” for his hero. In one instance in GoT, Bronn carries Tyrion the rest of the way up the Eyrie. Bronn volunteers to fight on behalf of Tyrion in his trial by combat.
   
   
3. “His chances of overpowering Mord are small to none . . .” And
   

“no one was about to smuggle him a six-hundred-foot-long-rope, so he would have to talk himself free. His mouth had gotten him into this cell; it could damn well get him out” (GoT 416).

• Both Tyrion and Odysseus escape their tormenters through good, old-fashioned ingenuity. They use their heads, and some “bronn” to defeat their foes and rise victorious.
  

1. Alcohol Motif
   

• Tyrion asks Cersei point blank, “How did you kill Robert?” (61). To which she replies unabashedly, “. . . he [Lancel] gave him strongwine. His favorite sour red, but fortified three times as he was used to. The great stinking fool loved it. He could have stopped swilling it down anytime he cared to , but no, he drained one skin and told Lancel to fetch another. The boar did the rest . . . ” (61).
  
  
• Similarly, when Odysseus leaves his ship with twelve of his crew to explore the home of the giant in search of guest gifts, he takes with him,
  

“. . . But I took a skin of wine along that Maron gave me

once, Euanthes’ son . . . he gave me . . . splendid gifts . . . this wine . . .

He drew it offin wine jars, twelve in all,

all mixed – an such a bouquet, a drink for the gods!

No maid or man of his knew that secret store . . .

Whenever they drink the deep-red mellow vintage,

Twenty cups of water he’d stir in one of wine

And what an aroma wafted from the bowl–

what magic, what a godsend –

no joy in holding back when that was poured!

Filling a great goatskin now, I took this wine,

provisions too in a leather sack” (9. 218-240).

• According to Cersei’s report to Tyrion, Lancel deliberately serves up concentrated wine to his king Robert, even though he knows the 3 x’s potency. It is his desire to disorient Robert so that he will be careless in his hunt for the boar.
  
  
• Compare Odysseus deliberately taking neat wine to the giant’s cave as a host-warming gift to this “lawless” person. In the event of problems, Odysseus’ clever nature anticipates he may need to get someone immersed in alcohol so that he can better control any situation through disorienting his host.
  

Both vintages are red, which is not unusual or unique; regardless, the like colors are a happy coincidence.

• Both Robert and Polyphemus cannot get enough of the drink, both asking for refills, Robert twice and Polyphemus three times each night. Yet Polyphemus’ alcohol is by far stronger, but he is a bigger framed person.
  
  
• Odysseus says to the Cyclops,
  

“Here, Cyclops, try this wine – to top off

the banquet of human flesh you’ve bolted down.

Judge for yourself what stock our ship had stored.

I brought it here to make you a fine libation,

hoping you would pity me, Cyclops, send me home,

but your rages are insufferable. You barbarian-

How can any man on earth come visit you after this?’ (9. 388-394).

Cyclops tossedoff one bowl, and then another – ‘fiery

bowl – three bowls I brimmed and three

he drank to the last drop’ (9.403-405).

• The next night the Cyclops wants more wine, and says: ‘ . . . this, / this is nectar, ambrosia – this flows from heaven!’ (9. 402-403).
  
  
• Both Robert and Cyclops are manipulated by wine and their individual puppet masters. Both will be skewered, Robert by a boar whom he will stab in the eye and Cyclops will be blinded in his only eye.
  
  
• The boar mentioned in Tyrion’s POV that skewers Robert, according to what Cersei tells Tyrion, parallels the boar that scars Odysseus’ leg in the Odyssey.
  

Both Tyrion and Odysseus share physical scars as a result of near-death experiences.Both are also emotionally challenged, carrying guilt for some deeds that are out of their control: Tyrion is oft reminded of the fact that his birth killed his mother.Odysseus also feels guilt over leading his 12 men to the Cyclop’s cave where six of them are gobbled up while Odysseus watches on, helpless, unable to intervene and save their lives.

• This is for you history buffs, since I missed the boar discussion. I am including a bit of research on historical significance of the boar hunts in both Iliad and Odyssey because I know the boar was discussed already in the GoT re-read of Tyrion:
  

• “In Ancient Greek culture, the boar represented death, due to of its hunting season beginning on the 23rd of September, the near end of the year. The boar was also seen as a representation of darkness battling against light, due to its dark colouration [sic] and nocturnal habits. Boar hunts appear frequently in Ancient Greek mythology and literature. “The first recorded mention of a boar hunt in Europe occurs in 700 BC in Homer's rendition of the hunt for the Calydonian boar. In Homer's Odyssey, Odysseus was injured on the leg during a boar hunt as a boy. The scar on his leg is what leads Eurycleia to recognise [sic] him on his return to Ithaca.” ( http://en.wikipedia....ki/Boar_hunting)
  
• “The earliest literary representation of the Calydonian [sic] boar hunt comes from Book IX (9.529-99) of the Iliad.”
  
• Homer and Meleager:
  

In the ninth book of the

Iliad

, Phoenix tries to persuade Achilles to fight. In the process, he tells the story of Meleager in a version sans Atalanta.

• “In the Odyssey, Odysseus is recognized by an odd scar caused by a boar tusk. In The Hunt in Ancient Greece Judith M. Barringer ties the two hunts together. She says they are both rites of passage with maternal uncles serving as witnesses. Odysseus, of course, survives his hunt, but Meleager isn't so fortunate, although he survives the boar.” (http://ancienthistor...08CBoarHunt.htm)
  

To be continued . . .

[Silverin]

all of it

It was really interesting, but wouldn'T it be better if we start such detailed comparison and parallels after we finish the reread?

I say this because I think as far as tyrion's story, what forces him to a journey is the murder of Joff.

So in a way I think those events have more parallel with the cyclops story. In this case (I know he isn't the one who killed Joff), Cersei is the enraged parent who wants revenged for her child, and makes it impossible for tyrion to return, and after all didn'T Joff point or glare at tryion before dying (need to reread those chapters as well), messaging his parent, who she has to blame. Not to mention the reason tyrion is blamed is also because of his big mouth, since he often went against Joff. And even made threats, if I remember correctly.

Jaime would be Athena, and I think he would fit better since he actually always favours tyrion, while Bronn only favours him because of money, we see when tyrion is claimed guilty by the trial he does nothing, and he doesn'T try to free him and anything. Jaime on the other hand, well does.

Another Athena could be Varys and Illiryio. They obviously have plans with tyrion so they help him.

I think the Odysseus-Tyrion comparission is really good and really spot on by the way.

[Natalie_S]

On Tyrion's end-goals

I largely agree with those who have said that it seems Tyrion is not really envisioning a long-term "profit" to work toward to guide his decisions. I also agree that while Tyrion doesn't envision a concrete image of what "success" might look like, that he is motivated by wanting his father's approval. However, I think what Tyrion most wants is the potential for his "feeling tall," if only for a while. I think that Tyrion struggles with the feeling of powerlessness throughout his arc, and I believe that Tyrion's "endgame" is largely about wielding and keeping power for its own sake. He's smart enough to know that in order to keep power, one must be effective and intelligent in dealing with the variety of factors that can interfere with one's power, and I believe he honestly enjoys the "game" aspect of this sort of repartee. It's like a puzzle he has to solve, and has all the confidence that he can. So I read this as Tyrion's enjoying power for its own sake, Tyrion's genuine enjoyment of the "game," and as a coup de grace, Tyrion's being able to show his father that he's as good or better than him at playing said game.

While I completely agree that Tyrion enjoys the feeling of power and the game for itself, I don't think that that was his end goal from the beginning.

Discovering that he's good at the game and that he enjoys being a player seems to take even himself by surprise.

I think he went to KL imagining to sort things out for his father only but then when he got the taste of power later found himself disappointed when Tywin took it our from him.

[Natalie_S]

It was really interesting, but wouldn'T it be better if we start such detailed comparison and parallels after we finish the reread?

I think the Odysseus-Tyrion comparission is really good and really spot on by the way.

I agree, this parallel is briliant but perhaps it would deserve its own thread (I would suggest to put it here in the re-read section so it doesn't get drowned by all the other threads).

[voodooqueen126]

While I completely agree that Tyrion enjoys the feeling of power and the game for itself, I don't think that that was his end goal from the beginning.

Discovering that he's good at the game and that he enjoys being a player seems to take even himself by surprise.

I think he went to KL imagining to sort things out for his father only but then when he got the taste of power later found himself disappointed when Tywin took it our from him.

I agree with Natalie here, but I would add.

The reason Tyrion likes power is that it makes him feel useful and needed: he hopes that by his intelligent exercise of power he might gain Tywin's love or approval.

It also gives him a sense of control, so that he can avoid a repeat of the Tysha incident (being powerless will get you hurt).

[Lummel]

All of this Oedipus talk puts me in mind of my mother reminds me that he is truth seeker, but that the truths that he discovers ultimately destroy him which seems a little similar to Tyrion's arc in Kings Landing, although the father killing is reversed here coming at the end rather than the beginning of the story and the mother is an absent presence rather than a constant one. Still the sphinx and the riddle is common to both it would seem.

The next few chapters will see Tyrion in pursuit of dangerous truths and investigating several Kings Landing mysteries, I don't want to anticipate that, but there is a big dangerous truth revealed in this chapter - Cersei's and Lancel's role in the death of King Bob. ("the forest is the abattoir of the gods" as Varys puts it to The Ned) And of course Tyrion already knows the even more dangerous truth of the parentage of Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen beethater.

I'm not sure if he succeeds in resolving Varys' riddle though...

[voodooqueen126]

All of this Oedipus talk puts me in mind of my mother reminds me that he is truth seeker, but that the truths that he discovers ultimately destroy him which seems a little similar to Tyrion's arc in Kings Landing, although the father killing is reversed here coming at the end rather than the beginning of the story and the mother is an absent presence rather than a constant one. Still the sphinx and the riddle is common to both it would seem.

The next few chapters will see Tyrion in pursuit of dangerous truths and investigating several Kings Landing mysteries, I don't want to anticipate that, but there is a big dangerous truth revealed in this chapter - Cersei's and Lancel's role in the death of King Bob. ("the forest is the abattoir of the gods" as Varys puts it to The Ned) And of course Tyrion already knows the even more dangerous truth of the parentage of Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen beethater.

I'm not sure if he succeeds in resolving Varys' riddle though...

call me stupid, but I have never really figured it out? I mean doesn't it depend on the sellsword?

[Lummel]

Well I suppose so. Not that you are stupid, but that it does depend on the sellsword :) .

But then the question is why will the sellsword obey one and not the other two, the sellsword isn't going to roll dice or something, he's going to make a reasonable decision (or a decision that is reasonable for him).

I think this is all about winning and maintaining loyalty. If you know the secret to winning and maintaining loyalty then the sellsword will be on your side. In Tyrion VI AGOT Tyrion says "Well, why do sellswords do anything? For gold". But we learn that isn't always the right answer. In Tyrion VII for instance Tywin wins the mountain clans over by tickling their pride and sense of honour, and we've been having a bit of a discussion about how the Lannisters and the Starks win loyalty from their people.

So my reading is that if you can solve Varys' riddle and you know how to win people's hearts then you will have power.

[Silverin]

call me stupid, but I have never really figured it out? I mean doesn't it depend on the sellsword?

Didn't Varys say that power lies where people believe it lies?

SO what you said is right. If the man is deeply religious he will follow the priest. If he believes in the succession of the bloodlines at whatever cost, he chooses the king. If he wants nothing but mmoney he chooses the rich men.

We see example for all of those.

[butterbumps!]

call me stupid, but I have never really figured it out? I mean doesn't it depend on the sellsword?

I haven't quite figured it out either. Upthread there was discussion of the question coming down to an issue of consent-- that is, there's a need for power to be identified as power by another party in order to be powerful.

I think that the fact it's a sellsword makes this really vexing. It's positing a sellsword specifically rather than a knight or lord or peasant. We think of sellswords as being completely self-interested and non-idealistic, contrasted with, say, bannermen that fight out of loyalty and fear for their lords. That this is a sellsword- a completely independent, non-honor bound party- is actually speaking to a more modern concept than the feudal system status quo. It's appealing to a kind of unmitigated free choice, unrestrained by the prevailing power structure. It skews the question to one of more than the simple recognition of power, but one where the sellsword (or people) choose who to follow based on direct benefits to oneself.

[Silverin]

I haven't quite figured it out either. Upthread there was discussion of the question coming down to an issue of consent-- that is, there's a need for power to be identified as power by another party in order to be powerful.

I think that the fact it's a sellsword makes this really vexing. It's positing a sellsword specifically rather than a knight or lord or peasant. We think of sellswords as being completely self-interested and non-idealistic, contrasted with, say, bannermen that fight out of loyalty and fear for their lords. That this is a sellsword- a completely independent, non-honor bound party- is actually speaking to a more modern concept than the feudal system status quo. It's appealing to a kind of unmitigated free choice, unrestrained by the prevailing power structure. It skews the question to one of more than the simple recognition of power, but one where the sellsword (or people) choose who to follow based on direct benefits to oneself.

I just noticed, who are a large number of sellswords supporting at the end of ADwD, because they belive power lies with him? Young Griff, ala Aegon. And this scenario was set up by no other than Varys.

But the problem with the sellswords is that if they motivation is money they can change side quickly as seen with Brown Ben Plum. He sides with Dany, then abaddons her, then he seens to go over to her side again with tyrion.

[butterbumps!]

I just noticed, who are a large number of sellswords supporting at the end of ADwD, because they belive power lies with him? Young Griff, ala Aegon. And this scenario was set up by no other than Varys.

But the problem with the sellswords is that if they motivation is money they can change side quickly as seen with Brown Ben Plum. He sides with Dany, then abaddons her, then he seens to go over to her side again with tyrion.

I was thinking that too-- about Varys-Aegon-sellswords. But they are backing Aegon not because they find him powerful so much as they will derive a direct benefit from backing him-- going home. That Aegon gives them something they find desirable is why they back him, and by backing him, they give him power. I think it's positing the notion that true power stems from one's ability to offer benefits to the people, who expect some kind of return for their consent. Which isn't really the way power has been constructed previously.

[Lummel]

...But the problem with the sellswords is that if they motivation is money they can change side quickly as seen with Brown Ben Plum. He sides with Dany, then abaddons her, then he seens to go over to her side again with tyrion.

yes precisely, there are no old bold sellswords. There is a limit to what you can buy with gold. Like the sellsword company that changes sides when Robb attacks the besiegers at Riverrun. Tywin can hire those sellswords, he can bring them over to Westeros and they will fight for gold, but they won't die for him or his money.

I was thinking that too-- about Varys-Aegon-sellswords. But they are backing Aegon not because they find him powerful so much as they will derive a direct benefit from backing him-- going home. That Aegon gives them something they find desirable is why they back him, and by backing him, they give him power. I think it's positing the notion that true power stems from one's ability to offer benefits to the people, who expect some kind of return for their consent. Which isn't really the way power has been constructed previously.

Yes, I think so. More of a mutual arrangement, I give you what you want and you give me what I want. Not a top down arrangement with authority on one side and obedience on the other.

[Blisscraft]

Lummel - Your Oedipus comments are both insightful and extremely funny.

:lmao:

I fully agree that Tyrion, like Oedipus is a truth seeker. (Some of those truths result in tragedy for poor Tyrion).

I, too, feel a bit like :dunce: when it comes to Varys riddle. (Or any riddle for that matter). The Beatles were correct when they sang, "Money can't buy me love. . . " or devotion when the risk is death to the sellsword. Maybe part of the answer lies in that issue. Who will the man with the sword die for? :dunno:

[Ragnorak]

On the nature of the riddle:

The answer, which we get next chapter, is indeed "power resides where men believe it resides." There is a certain universal truth in this. People obey laws because they believe there is a reason to fear the law enforcement authority or there is a right and wrong. Soldiers obey orders because they believe in the chain of command. It is essentially about the power of ideas.

The freedoms we cherish in countries with representative governments are in fact an illusion-- a special kind of illusion known as an idea. You are never truly free to speak. At any point anyone can silence you as many notable historical assassinations (and far more less known incidents) have proved. What makes the illusion real is when people carry this idea of freedom in their hearts and their hearts carry them to action. It is the idea in the heart, not the heart of the idea, that makes the illusion real. The dead man was never in fact free to speak and never will be again. The actions by those who hold the belief in free speech (trial, punishment, war, new laws, etc) serve really to reinforce the belief making freedom just as much a reality and an illusion as power.

This is quite an important difference between LF and Varys. LF tells Sansa that when you know what a man wants you can control him. Varys relies on what a man believes. Very few men are willing to die for their wants, but men have been willing to die for their beliefs by the millions.

The mummer's trick, the shadow on the wall that is power, is nothing more than the beliefs people hold that act as the premise for ceding aspects of their own autonomy to another person. This isn't always a bad thing. It is actually the entire basis of a civilized society-- it is however only an illusion made real by belief.

[evita mgfs]

This is the finish of my reaction post for Tyrion POV #1 and some flashbacks to GoT. NOW I plan to read all your posts, and I am sorry if anyone misunderstood that I willl not read your posts.

I have every intention of doing so. I have been on other threads where people say they did not read the posts before they posted so as not to step on another's ideas - that was all I meant when I said I was not going to read posts until I had my Tyrion/Odysseus' POV analysis done. I was reading all the posts - and after, I kept going back to spend more and more time revising mine. So I thought it best to get mine posted first, then go back. I am so sorry if anyone misunderstood or thought me ignorant. :blushing:

After this, I finally get to relax and read without worrying about going back to cut in my thesis what had already been said, or addressing what I forgot to say?

1. Deception/Lies/Bribery Motifs
   

** Cersei wants Tyrion to share “his plans and intercourse” (60) with her, and do “nothing without my [Cersei’s] consent” (60).

“ ‘Certainly,’ he [Tyrion] lied. I am yours, sister.’ For as long as I need to be” (61).

Martin’s choice of verb indicates that Tyrion is deceptive in his promise to Cersei. Tyrion still plans to be Master of his Own Domain. He will tolerate his sister only as long as it is necessary. Similarly, Odysseus lies, many, many times. Two instances of Odysseus’ deceptions occur in the Cyclops’ cave, when Polyphemus asks about Odysseus’ ship, he says his ship crashed; then when Polyphemus asks his name, Odysseus lies, saying he is Nobody. The information that Odysseus withholds proves to be detrimental to his survival and to saving his crew. Thus, Odysseus lies to survive a dangerous foe and to safeguard his search party as well as his men and ships awaiting his and his mates’ safe return. Likewise, Tyrion has no intention of sharing his plans and intercourses with Cersei, and his promise to ask permission before he acts is certainly an untruth. But if he does not protect himself against his cyclopean sister, he might very well doom himself. So Tyrion and Odysseus both lie to their enemies with great motivations at heart.

Nobody = Arya? [couldn’t resist].

*Cersei is the Cyclops to Tyrion’s Odysseus. Tyrion says in GoT of Cersei, “Her pride blinded her” (415).

**Tyrion attempts to flatter Cersei when he lies to her, telling her that he has come all the way to King’s Landing to “help” Cersei, when really he plans to do something she will never expect: “I’ll do . . . justice” (69).

Tyrion flatters his sister when he says he has traveled just to help her. He thinks he will do justice, something he has been denied all his life by those prejudiced against him for his physical differences. So even though his intentions may be good, ‘justice’ is not easy to manage or control. He is idealistic indeed.

Like Tyrion, Odysseus uses flattery with women to gain what he needs at the moment. For example, Calypso begs ‘the man of winning words’ to stay with her and not to return to his wife Penelope. Odysseus chooses his words carefully so as not to offend the goddess with his determination to leave her for his mere mortal wife. He says, “Look at my wise Penelope. She falls short of you, / your beauty, stature. / She is mortal after all . . .” (Fagels 5.238-239) He tells her what she wants to hear just so he can get away from her and go home.

Another example of Odysseus’ winning words occurs when he flatters the Princess Nausicaa to induce her to help him find clothing and safe passage home. Odysseus “launched in at once, endearing, sly and suave” (6.162). He says to Nausicaa, “Are you a goddess or a mortal? If one of the gods / . . , you’re Artemis, come to life, / . . . just look / at your build, your bearing, your flowing grace . . .” (6.164-67).

Both Tyrion and Odysseus deceive others to further their own personal agendas. Odysseus delivers justice in Ithaca after he returns. Will Tyrion do the same?

Tyrion attempts “emotionally blackmail” on Cersei when he tries to exchange Jaime’s safe return for his sister’s promise of backing in his new role as Hand of the King.

**“Give me your support, and I promise you we will have Jaime freed and returned to us unharmed” (CoK 58).

**Tyrion is shrewd in his manipulation of Cersei. He sees Jaime as her weakness just as Cersei sees Tyrion’s weakness as his whores. He uses Jaime as the ticket to his sister’s support. He knows of her passion for Jaime, so he dangles the prospect of having her dear brother returned to her before her face, urging her to take a bite. Tyrion is also confident he can deliver on his promise

In a similar fashion, when Tyrion is imprisoned in the sky cell at the Eyrie, he must resort to a blackmail of sorts. Tyrion lures Mord with the promise of gold, a strategy he likes to employ when manipulating narrow minded Cyclopes. Mord fears duplicity: “Is lie . . Dwarf man cheat me” (GoT 417). Therefore, Tyrion offers to “put my promises in writing” (GoT 417).

Thus, Tyrion makes promises of Jaime’s return, and Lannister gold, respectively, to seek solutions to his problems at the time.

Odysseus as well makes a promise to his wife when he is disguised as an old beggar who seeks a meal, or hospitality, and who offers news of Queen Penelope’s 20 year-absent husband. To hammer home that he speaks the truth, Odysseus promises on Father Zeus:

“I give you my solemn, binding oath.

I swear by Zeus, the first, the greatest god –

By Odysseus’ hearth where I have come for help:

All will come to pass, I swear, exactly as I say.

True, this very month – just as the old moon dies

And the new moon rises into life – Odysseus will return!” (19. 349-353).

Both Tyrion and Odysseus manage promises quite well when it suits them, but Odysseus already knows he is safe to promise his own return, for he is already home, merely in disguise. Jaime seems always out of reach of Tyrion, and he knows he has the Lannister gold to buy off Mord’s favor.

**Tyrion says to Cersei that “Schemes are like fruit, they require a certain ripening” (62). Tyrion schemes to free Jaime, but he needs to plot and plan before all is a go. Likewise, Odysseus “schemes” and his fruits ripen as he plots the blinding of Polyphemus and succeeds (Book 9). Note his boast after the escape: “ ‘. . . Nobody’s name – my great cunning stroke – / had duped [sic] them one and all / . . . My wits kept weaving, weaving cunning schemes . . . (9.462-172).

**While Tyrion deceives others with cunning, Varys is spying and has learned about Shae (65-68). Knowledge is leverage Varys uses to control Tyrion– just as Tyrion uses his knowledge of certain people in order to manipulate them. Making Tyrion aware of what he knows, Varys sends Tyrion a message that he has information against him that Tyrion does not want publicized.

If Varys has to fit in the scope of Homer’s world, he would be Hermes, a sly god, much accomplished in many areas, more notably for slaying a giant, and notably as messenger of the gods. He wears his winged hat and sandals and flits here and there, oft delivering gloom and doom to gods, goddesses, and mortals alike. Odysseus, so wise, knows not to trust gods and goddesses, for they lie – so Odysseus is suspicious of immortals who claim to want to help him. But Hermes warns Odysseus of the enchantress Circe’s plans and how to defeat her.

Tyrion respects Varys power, but he does not trust him. Like Odysseus, Tyrion knows that messengers like Varys are useful; however, they cannot always be trusted and they usually have their own agenda.

**Cersei misleads many, including Tyrion. Cersei admits, “I’ve given it out that I have the younger brat as well, but it’s a lie” (CoK 58). Tyrion had hoped to have both sisters to make an exchange of hostages, if possible.

The Cyclops, as well, tries misleading Odysseus by promising him a guest gift, then announcing: “I’ll eat Nobody last of all his friends - /I’ll eat the others first! That’s my gift to you!” (9.413-414). Odysseus assumes he will extract a guest gift from the Cyclops in exchange of his name. Instead, Polyphemus turns the gift into a deadly punishment. Living while watching your comrades die is not the guest gift Odysseus had in mind.

Both Tyrion and Odysseus are deceived by their nemeses, Cersei and Polyphemus, respectively.

**Tyrion says to his sister, “How I have yearned for the sound of your sweet voice” (CoK 57). He uses verbal irony – he has certainly not missed his sister’s voice. [Cersei’s ‘sweet voice’ parallels the deadly Siren’s song only Odysseus hears: “So they sent their ravishing voices out across the air / and the heart inside me throbbed to listen longer” (12.208-209).]

Ironically, when Odysseus first encounters the enchantress Circe, he thinks of her “enchanting voice” (10.243). Although the enchantress’ name is spelled differently from the Lannister woman in Martin’s series, the pronunciation sounds the same. The Sirens’ voices and Circe’s voice may link to Cersei’s sweet voice.

**Cersei accuses Tyrion of forging his father’s letter, thereby revealing that she believes Tyrion is capable of such duplicity (CoK 57). “Has father lost his senses? Or did you forge this letter?” (57).

Just like Cersei accuses Tyrion of falsehood, Cyclops accuses Odysseus of piracy:

“ ‘Strangers!” he thundered out, ‘now who are you?

Where did you sail from, over the running sea-lanes?

Out on a trading spree or roving the waves like pirates,

Sea-wolves raiding at will, who risk their lives

to plunder other men?’ (9.283-287).

**Both Tyrion and Odysseus suffer reputations that cause others to be suspicious of their intentions.

Back at the Eyrie, Tyrion uses threats to move Lady Lysa from her course of vengeance against all Lannisters, but namely Tyrion since he conveniently arrived with Cat.

**Tyrion pressures Lady Arryn when he says, “‘Lady Arryn, should any harm come to me, my brother Jaime will be pleased to see that they [her loyal retainers] do [avenge Tyrion].’ Even as he spat out the words, Tyrion knew they were folly” (GoT 412). Tyrion no doubt hopes Jaime’s reputation as a kingslayer and skilled fighter in battle might move the Lady to treat him more respectfully. However, the folly is that Lady Lysa is too narrow-minded to even conceive of Jaime’s possible vengeance for his brother if he should be harmed. She has grown too comfortable in the fortress called the Eyrie.

Likewise, Odysseus threatens Polyphemus with the vengeance of Zeus, guardian of strangers, if he does not treat them in accordance with the laws of hospitality:

“‘But since we chanced on you, we’re at your knees

in hopes of a warm welcome, even a guest gift,

the sort that hosts give strangers.That’s the custom.

Respect the gods, my friend.We’re suppliant – at your mercy!

Zeus of the Strangers guards all guests and suppliants:

Strangers are sacred – Zeus will avenge their rights!’” (9. 300-305).

Sadly, both offer up empty threats for Jaime is far away and Zeus is sometimes deaf to Odysseus’ prayers out of respect for his brother Poseidon.

As Odysseus calls upon Zeus to intervene, Tyrion calls upon the old gods: “The gods know the truth of my innocence. I will have their verdict, not the judgment of men” (GoT 413). Odysseus warns Polyphemus if he is mistreated, he will answer to Zeus.Anticipating help from busy deities sounds noble, but it is not reliable or realistic. That is why Tyrion and Odysseus use their minds.

**Next, Lady Lysa threatens Tyrion:“ ‘Can a dwarf fly, my lord of Lannister? . . . Does a dwarf have wings? If not, you would be wiser to swallow the next threat that comes to mind.’

‘I made no threats . . . That was a promise’” (GoT 412).

Likewise, the Cyclops has some choice words for Odysseus,

“’Stranger,’ he [Cyclops] grumbled back from his brutal heart,

‘you must be a fool, stranger, or come from nowhere,

telling me to fear the gods or avoid their wrath!

We Cyclops never blink at Zeus and Zeus’ shield

of storm and thunder, or any blessed god –

we’ve got more force by far.

I’d never spare you in fear of Zeus’s hatred,

you or your comrades here, unless I had the urge’” (Fagels 9.305-313).

Lady Lysa and the Cyclops both threaten their prey ruthlessly. Lady Lysa smugly warns Tyrion he will succumb to the moon door unless he has wings. Likewise, the Cyclops tells Odysseus that Cyclopes are more powerful than the gods, and that Odysseus is out-of-luck if he hopes Zeus will intervene to spare him. [Targaryens above the gods?]

In GoT, Tyrion tricks Mord into returning his cloak (418) which is similar to Odysseus tricking his loyal swineherd Eumaeus into giving him a cloak for the night.

“Eumaeus, loyal swineherd flung on his guest / the heavy flaring cloak he kept in reserved / to wear when winter brought some wild storm” (14.587-89).

The references to the clever Tyrion and Odysseus both using deceptive measures to gain a cloak to keep them warm are a happy coincidence.

1. Underestimating Tyrion/Tyrion’s Cunning
   

Tyrion is similar to Odysseus in that he is especially cunning, but he is often underestimated by others, including himself. Tyrion must control his urges for whores and learn to bite his tongue, both of which sometimes get him into trouble. What follows are examples from Tyrion’s POV #1 TCoK, where others doubt or underestimate his talents:

Cersei underestimates Tyrion. Cersei says to Tyrion: “You have always been cunning” (60), and Tyrion repeats Little Finger’s dig: “In my own small way” (60).

Cersei acknowledges that Tyrion has been cunning, and note the verbs – she intimates some doubt as to whether Tyrion still is as cunning as she remembers. If so, she may be able to use him to her advantage, although she says the words albeit resentfully.

Likewise, Polyphemus recognizes Odysseus’ cleverness. Both Tyrion and Polyphemus answer their nemeses by employing verbal irony.

Littlefinger makes a dig at Tyrion during the small council meeting when he says he will help, “Do let me be of service in whatever small way I can” (55). Tyrion later echoes LF’s dig: “In my own small way” (60).

In front of the small council, LF uses the word “small” purposefully to get a rise out of Tyrion. The remark does not go unnoticed, for Tyrion repeats it. But Tyrion wears armor against these slights; he conveys an unaffected demeanor. Tyrion is good at the game of bluffing. Maybe Tyrion will return these kindnesses some day?

Odysseus endures the condescension of the suitors whom he witnesses disrespecting his wife and his son in their own home. Likewise, he suffers the suitors plotting his son’s death; the suitors denying him food from his own board; the suitors mistreating his hunting dog Argos,; the suitors pulling a chair out from under him; the suitors hitting him in the head with an ox-bone; and the suitors trying to string his Great Bow. But this self-control follows hard won lessons.

Both Tyrion and Odysseus use their cunning to prove their value to those who would scorn them.

Tyrion continues his self-deprecating remarks, which may suggest he underestimates himself because of his size, or that because of his size, he should not be underestimated. (This overlaps with Irony Motif below)

Other self-defeating or self-deprecating remarks I caught follow:

• “I’m too small to be a Black Ear” (CoK 67).
  
• “small disturbance” (53).
  
• “I’m short, not blind” (60).
  

Odysseus also displays a false modesty, best illustrated in his encounter with Nausicaa’s maidens who wish to bath him. He refuses, with these lines:

‘Stand where you are, dear girls, a good way off,

So I can rinse the brine from my shoulders now

And rub myself with oil . . .

How long it’s been since oil touched my skin!

But I won’t bathe in front of you. I would be embarrassed –

Stark naked in front of young girls with lovely braids’ (Fagels 6.241-246).

Both Tyrion and Odysseus share this technique of manipulating people. Through self-deprecation, they desire to win a sort of sympathy from the target they hope to milk.

**Varys inspects the seal on Tywin’s letter to authenticate it, as though Tyrion is not to be trusted and may forge a letter against his House (54).

Tyrion accuses Cersei of thinking he is “as blind as father” (61), regarding Tywin’s lack of knowledge; i.e., the incestuous relationship between Cersei and her brother Jaime that produces three offspring. Tyrion says, “I’m short, not blind” (60). [Note: Tywin is another blind Cyclops. Tyrion intimates that he is not blind like other narrow-minded people]. Tyrion has suspected Jaime and Cersei’s ongoing affair. In this POV Tyrion confronts her with the hard facts, and even bemoans that Cersei has not opened her legs for her shorter brother, Tyrion.

The sphinx statues and the INCEST motif link to two other Greek sources, Sophocles Oedipus Rex and Antigone, as well as Homer’s Odyssey, for Odysseus sees Jocaste’s shade when he visits the Hall of Hades in The Book of the Dead.

In Oedipus Rex, Oedipus answers the riddle of the Sphinx, and this riddle relates to Varys riddle posed to Tyrion about “In a room sit three great men, a king, a priest, and a rich man with his gold. Between them stands a sellsword . . . (67).

The INCEST between Cersei and Jaime relates to Oedipus’ incest when he unwittingly kills his father and marries his mother, the Queen Jocaste, his reward for answering the riddle of the Sphinx correctly. Together, Oedipus and Jocaste create four offspring: Antigone, Ismene, Polynices, and Eteocles.

1. IRONY MOTIF in #1 Tyrion POV from CoK / Odysseus’ Counterpoint
   

In Tyrion’s first POV, it is Joffrey’s 13^th nameday. Odysseus’ scouting party is made up of 13.

“The ships that followed me were twelve,” (9), so Odysseus has thirteen (13) ships total, including his own (9.160). Happy coincidence?

Yes? Joffrey, Odysseus' scouting party, and his ships are all ill-fated, referencing the unlucky number 13.

Odysseus is the BRAINS; Menelaus is the BRAUN. (Reference the Teichoscopia in Book III of Iliad)

Tyrion is the BRAINS; BRONN IS THE BRAUN; happy coincidence?

Tyrion is held captive in the sky cells, locked in by air. The Arryns keep the sky cells, and they were “the only dungeon in the realm where the prisoners were welcome to escape at will” (GoT 412). Both Tyrion and Odysseus are resilient: Tyrion survives the sky cells using his wit and Odysseus survives Polyphemus’ cave using his wit. Tyrion survives the mummer’s farce of a trial as Odysseus survives Polyphemus’ curse against Odysseus.

This parallels Odysseus in the Cyclops’ cave, blocked by an unmovable boulder, in an ironic sense. Odysseus must rely on Polyphemus to move boulder just as Tyrion relies on Mord to deliver his message.

The Cyclops Versus the Mountain that Rides, Ser Gregor Clegane.

Note Homer’s description of the Cyclops in the Odyssey:

‘who . . .

Here was a giant’s lair who never mixed with others.

A grim loner, dead set on his own lawless ways.

Here was a piece of work, by god, a monster .

Built like no mortal who ever supped on bread,

No, like a shaggy peak, I’d say – a man-mountain

Rearing head and shoulders over the world” (Fagels 9.208-214)

From Eddard’s POV, the description of the Mountain that Rides:

“. . . but the knight they called the Mountain that Rides would have towered over Hodor. He was well over seven feet tall, closer to eight with massive shoulders and arms thick as the trunks of small trees. His destrier seemed a pony between his armored legs, and the lance he carried looked as small as a broom handle” (GoT 313).

Irony? A happy coincidence? Another literary homage? The Mountain is another Cyclops, no doubt.

That’s it! I am done! (Wasn’t that fun?) Now I can enjoy the posts of others! Thanks for reading and sharing.

[butterbumps!]

I'm actually going to open a new thread in the general forum on the topic of the riddle. These are the best observations and analyses I've seen on the subject, and I think it deserves its own thread (Plus, in order to really give the riddle its proper justice, I think Varys, LF and Aegon discussion is warranted, and that's getting way ahead of the reread).

I'll update this post when I make the link.

ETA: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/75619-a-king-a-tycoon-and-a-priest-walk-into-a-bar/

[Ragnorak]

Since we seem to be on the riddle, let's look at the chapter where we get the answer.

Tyrion II (CoK)

Summary

The chapter opens at the end of a dinner between Tyrion and Janos Slynt. Tyrion has plied Slynt with flattery and wine in order to ply his now drunken guest for information. They speak of Harrenhal, Slynt's recommendations for a replacement for the head of the Goldcloaks, the murder of one of Robert's infant bastards, Ned Starks's beheading and eventually Tyrion lets him know that he's being sent to the Wall. Slynt threatens Tyrion with his various friends at court only to be met at the door by Ser Jacelyn Bywater, the new Commander of the City Watch, who takes him into custody to be sent off to the Wall. Tyrion orders all the men Slynt recommended sent to the Wall as well with further orders that Deem, the one who killed the baby, is to meet with an "accident" at sea.

Afterwards Varys comes in and they discuss matters. It becomes clear that Varys has provided a wealth of information to Tyrion regarding Slynt and other matters. The confrontational aspect of the end of last chapter has turned into the beginnings of an alliance of sorts. Tyrion expresses some concern that he might meet the same fate as the last two Hands, but Varys says he thinks that isn't likely and again poses the riddle from last chapter and the answer. For reference:

“Oh, I think not,” Varys said, swirling the wine in his cup. “Power is a curious thing, my lord. Perchance you have considered the riddle I posed you that day in the inn?”

“It has crossed my mind a time or two,” Tyrion admitted. “The king, the priest, the rich man—who lives and who dies? Who will the swordsman obey? It’s a riddle without an answer, or rather, too many answers. All depends on the man with the sword.”

“And yet he is no one,” Varys said. “He has neither crown nor gold nor favor of the gods, only a piece of pointed steel.”

“That piece of steel is the power of life and death.”

“Just so… yet if it is the swordsmen who rule us in truth, why do we pretend our kings hold the power? Why should a strong man with a sword ever obey a child king like Joffrey, or a wine-sodden oaf like his father? “

“Because these child kings and drunken oafs can call other strong men, with other swords.”

“Then these other swordsmen have the true power. Or do they? Whence came their swords? Why do they obey?” Varys smiled. “Some say knowledge is power. Some tell us that all power comes from the gods. Others say it derives from law. Yet that day on the steps of Baelor’s Sept, our godly High Septon and the lawful Queen Regent and your ever-so-knowledgeable servant were as powerless as any cobbler or cooper in the crowd. Who truly killed Eddard Stark do you think? Joffrey, who gave the command? Ser Ilyn Payne, who swung the sword? Or… another? “

Tyrion cocked his head sideways. “Did you mean to answer your damned riddle, or only to make my head ache worse?”

Varys smiled. “Here, then. Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.”

“So power is a mummer’s trick?”

“A shadow on the wall,” Varys murmured, “yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.”

Varys runs through some matters for Tyrion to address and then departs. Tyrion then speaks with Bronn. He expresses concern that instead of replacing Cersei's man with his own he may have simply replaced Littlefinger's man with one of Varys. We learn Bronn is recruiting more sellswords and Tyrion asks him if he would kill an infant without question.

“Without question? No.” The sellsword rubbed thumb and forefinger together. “I’d ask how much.”

And why would I ever need your Allar Deem, Lord Slynt? Tyrion thought. I have a hundred of my own. He wanted to laugh; he wanted to weep; most of all, he wanted Shae.

Observations

Food

This evening they had supped on oxtail soup, summer greens tossed with pecans, grapes, red fennel, and crumbled cheese, hot crab pie, spiced squash, and quails drowned in butter.

The oxtail recalls Shagga's invitation to dine on ox and the crabs recall his meal at the Wall. I don't recall any other references regarding the menu. We also have our first Summer reference in the chapter. Also worth noting is that Tyrion dines with Slynt off screen and it gives him indigestion. He only nibbles on cheese that we see. Varys drinks wine but Tyrion does not share a cup with him.

We also have a few references to Summer along with the implicit references to Winter that come with the Wall.

“The carrack Summer’s Dream sails on the morning tide.

Varys filled a cup. “Ah. Sweet as summer.” He took another sip. “I hear the grapes singing on my tongue.”

a white bird from the Summer Isles to keep her company

The cloak as a symbol of protection and power returns

Slynt’s head was beet-red, and his cloth-of-gold cape had slithered off his shoulders onto the floor.

Ser Jacelyn bowed and took his leave, his cloak rippling behind him. He trod on Slynt’s cloth-of-gold cape on his way.

Tyrion has not forgotten his promise to Mormont. He's repaying a different, very unLannister debt here-- one incurred during a meal that he was much better able to stomach.

When you see Lord Commander Mormont, give him my fond regards, and tell him that I have not forgotten the needs of the Night’s Watch.

Slynt as a butcher reminds me of Tywin claiming all that was left was butcher's work and that Robb Stark lacked the stomach for it. Maybe tied to Tyrion's indigestion?

Janos Slynt was a butcher’s son, and he laughed like a man chopping meat.

Also Slynt's Deem choice is fairly Tywin-esque

“A good commander knows his men, Tyrion. Some are good for one job, some for another. Doing for a babe, and her still on the tit, that takes a certain sort. Not every man’d do it. Even if it was only some whore and her whelp.”

Tyrion chooses a man who is loved rather than feared for the City Watch though he still has his army of Deems as he admits to himself at the end.

“Deem is little loved in the streets, I am told.”

“He’s feared. That’s better.”

Love and fear come up in a variety of contexts.

“They are spreading fear, my lord.”

“I thought that was your job.”

Varys covered his mouth with his hand. “You are very cruel to say so.

“Spies and informers are seldom loved, my lord. I am but a loyal servant of the realm.”

her mother, who was so young and loved the king.”

“Did she?” Tyrion had never seen the dead girl’s face, but in his mind she was Shae and Tysha both. “Can a whore truly love anyone, I wonder? No, don’t answer. Some things I would rather not know.”

“Dwarf?” His anger flashed. “You should have stopped at Imp. I am Tyrion of House Lannister, and someday, if you have the sense the gods gave a sea slug, you will drop to your knees in thanks that it was me you had to deal with, and not my lord father. Now, how many sons do you have?”

Tyrion could see the sudden fear in Janos Slynt’s eyes.

Analysis

Last chapter ended with Tyrion claiming he wanted to do "justice" and this chapter we see him doing just that. Sending Slynt and his lackeys to the Wall accomplishes Tywin's assignment of taking matters in hand regarding bad counsel, helps establish Tyrion's power base while reducing Cersei's, keeps his promise to Mormont, and is justice for Robert's bastard, her mother, and even Ned. The emotional pull of justice here though is for the murdered child. This recalls Rhaegar's children and Tysha and most of the love and fear references tie back to "Lannister vs Stark" values and Tywin and Tysha specifically.

Slynt's fate certainly comes off as just and even a bit merciful. Tyrion gives him the fate he denied Ned Stark (though Jon will remedy that later.) Allowing Slynt's children to remain lords is probably more of a Lannister debt issue than justice though I doubt Tywin would have paid it in that way. Tyrion's refusal to treat dinner talk as treason comes across as just too. His choice to turn the captain of the White Hart (Robert hunting reference?) to "Joffrey's justice" leaves something to be desired in the justice as a virtue category. It is more pragmatism than justice and a grey moral choice at best. There are also active choices to dispense justice openly and in secret. We see a poetic justice streak in his desire to keep the Redwyne twins as oarsmen for a few years on the Pentoshi Moonrunner. (symbolism in the name? Varys Pentos connection?)

Tyrion knows Ned's beheading was expected and he knows Slynt belongs to Littlefinger since he thinks he's replacing LF's man with Varys. Why doesn't he connect these dots? More interestingly is that Varys doesn't connect them for him. By all accounts Varys was just as taken aback by the beheading as everyone else. Varys knows it was LF, knows he doesn't know LF's agenda (from the Arya eavesdrop), and knows LF can operate without his knowledge. Still Varys doesn't seem to think LF is a threat to his agenda and seems perfectly content to have him sowing chaos. Especially with the dagger lie hanging there it wouldn't be hard to sway Tyrion to eliminate him. I would call this Varys choosing to keep LF around which is a new take on this for me.

I also suspect Tyrion dealt LF a much bigger blow here than he realizes. We learn later that Slynt was selling Goldcloak positions for a cut of the salary and that LF was probably seeing to it that the Realm profited somehow. We also learn later that the Antler men all owed money to the crown. I suspect that LF was bribing people with money from the throne's treasury and calling the expenses loans. He would then "pay back" these loans with corrupt funds such as the cut of Slynt's sold offices or the salaries of the excess of employees such as Jaime sees in the dungeons. Even if I'm wrong about the exact nature of the money laundering, Tyrion has still cut off a significant revenue source for LF and probably given Ser Jacelyn an unexpected loyalty boost as these Goldcloaks will effectively get a raise by no longer be paying a portion of their salaries to Slynt.

This is a very dense chapter in terms of material. It is our first insight into Tyrion wielding power of his own. We see him playing humble with Slynt which is uncharacteristic for Lannisters, he's the only one who ever asks Varys about himself in a sincere way. Tyrion compares himself to Varys including a dwarf's fate coming from the gods and a eunuch's fate coming from man. He talks of the hope of having children (another family reference) and asks Varys how he copes without this hope (Aegon as a surrogate son?) We see him conflicted over Cersei, over Shae, over Tysha, over Varys, over his own fate. We have the answer to the riddle. Lots to discuss.