Arya's Destiny?

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

More likely she'll kill Alayne

FM do not kill those they know or have once known. Just because Sansa is "Alayne" now it doesn't change anything. That's why the crew of the ship who carried her to Braavos made her memorise their names.

That's why I think that if Arya kills anyone important, it will be when she is not a Faceless.

[ARYa_Nym]

Um, what's the age difference? Can't really remember, but I don't think it's said anywhere how old he is...

I think it's just one more than Rhaegar/Lyanna. Lyanna was 13/14 at Harrenhal and Rhaegar was 21/22 I think. She died at 16 and I think he was 24.

Arya is 12 and he is 22.

Lord Velaryon was also described as handsome so I figured that Aurane would age well.

If she is ever going to leave the FM, she better do it soon, otherwise she will be stuck forever with them (sucessfully erasing her persona) or she will need to go rogue on them.

Crackpot theory of course but It wouldn't make sense for anyone to be able to leave the FM once you have been introduced to all their tricks and magic. The Kindly Man tells Arya that she can leave whenever she wants, but that was before showing her the secret sanctuary with the faces.

If she remains training with them, who knows what other secrets/techniques she will learn? Do you think the most badass assassin guild in the world would then tell her "ok you can leave now"?

She will either leave before there is no turning back, go rogue on a mission (and have FM chasing her for the rest of the books), or kill everyone in the temple to get out...

Edit: question for gamers out there, I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees lots of similarities between the FM and the Dark Broterhood from the Elders Scrolls series, both speak of the assassinations as "gifts", both worship a deity resembling emptiness and the void (Sithis/Many Faces God/Unknown), both charge for the killing but is not always gold, of course both have temples/shrines, etc.

Question is...who was first? FM or Dark Brotherhood?

Dark Broterhood was already in ES Dagerfall back in 1996. Was any of the FM lore by GRRM available at that time? happy coincidense? GRRM is a secret gamer?

I love that you mentioned this because I'm a female High Elf in my game and I totally felt like Arya while playing that game.

The Dark Brotherhood was my favorite questline in Skyrim and The Thieves Guild was the bane of my existence.

I hadn't played video games since the days of PS1 and Nintendo 64 so I bought an Xbox just because I wanted to play Alice Madness Returns but I was horrible in the beginning because I didn't know how to use the controller. I'm much better at Skyrim now but I'm still bad at Alice.

Do you know any other games that would be like the Dark Brotherhood?

Arya as the Night Wolf is the one who is praying and in Skyrim the Night Mother is the one who hears the prayers.

The Night Mother is the Unholy Matron, bride of Sithis, and spiritual leader of the Dark Brotherhood. According to Dark Brotherhood beliefs, she is the wife of Sithis and bore five children. Despite being a relatively powerful spirit, her corpse is needed for communion with her. She receives prayers from people seeking to arrange assassinations via the Black Sacrament, and relays those desires to the Listener, the mortal leader of the Brotherhood.

I think Arya would love Shadowmere!

[The Nite Wolf]

One of the reasons I like Arya is that, relatively speaking, she's a winner compared to the rest of the Starks. She has small victories, she extricates her self from a variety of confinement, and she successfully gets the hell out of Dodge. So the same way I find Braavos a relief from craptastic Westeros I find Arya's success (relative as in "she's alive and free to walk around") a relief from all the Stark tragedy. I would hate it if GRRM squashed my little symbol of hope for the sake of unconventionality.

Once again, you've hit the nail on the head. :agree:

If the story calls for her death, I guess I'll have to suck it up like a big girl and try to move on with my life. But as you mentioned, if George decides to kill one of his favorite characters for the sake of being unconventional, I might just have to pay him a visit.

Though, as ARYa_Nym rightly pointed out, GRRM particularly enjoys writing Arya's chapters, which gives me hope that, whatever he may have planned, it's not likely to disappoint.

I got the impression (mind you, this is just a speculation!) that it is a trait that few people possess. GRRM has stated that Arya can see past glamour at some points, and that it was a rare and special talent.

Was this mentioned in the text or did GRRM state this in a separate interview? I'm very curious as it's yet another thing to add to Arya's "BAMF" list. ;)

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Was this mentioned in the text or did GRRM state this in a separate interview? I'm very curious as it's yet another thing to add to Arya's "BAMF" list. ;)

I've read it in this forum somewhere. (Not in this thread, but on westeros.org) I'll try to find it for you ^^

[Stannis the Wight]

I think he would need to skip a head a few years for us to see what Arya's destiny is, Bran and Rickon too for that matter. I remember reading in an interview GRRM said that ADWD was originally going to take place 5 or so years after AFFC but he changed his mind.... still the kids need to grow and so do the dragons. Maybe he's going to do it in A Dream of Spring?

[The Nite Wolf]

I've read it in this forum somewhere. (Not in this thread, but on westeros.org) I'll try to find it for you ^^

Awe, thanks a lot! :love:

[Juli]

I don't remember that the FM people ever say once you join you can never leave? Why would they hunt her down if she left?

[Arkantos]

I don't remember that the FM people ever say once you join you can never leave? Why would they hunt her down if she left?

What assasination organisation would train you up to be the perfect agent and then let you go without getting anything in return?

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

What assasination organisation would train you up to be the perfect agent and then let you go without getting anything in return?

... I never got the impression that you were bound for life. They have no vows or promises. FM is not the NW.

[Budj]

I honestly never thought I'd be a Jon / Arya shipper....a little too close relation for comfort....but jeez...it is kind of laid out there. Their close relationship....her blushing in his presence....what sibling blushes? Who makes ARYA blush?! Boys are stupid, right? I think there was more to their closeness than they realized. Not to mention that most of the people Jon crushes on have similar personalities to Arya and Arya kind of likes the unconventional guys - I do think she was crushing on Gendry and I think a big portion of that was the fact that he was a bastard. Add in the affinity Targ's have for their close relatives :ack:

Now...on to the clutching needle quote that is always discussed. I agree with sandsnake no. 9. The whole penance thing actually ties into what I think snaps her out of the FM situation. Jon says this to her (he also says that sometimes different roads lead to the same castle) and now we have Massey coming with a fleet to Bravos. Jon just got stabbed and I'm sure that news will reach them prior to departing. Arya has been hiding with the FM and the reason Jon got stabbed (well multiple reasons...but the final one) was that he wanted to go save HER and ended up getting stabbed for nothing because she was no where near WF. I think this guilt and desire for vengeance will cause her to dig up needle and catch a ride back with the sell sword army Massey is purchasing. This theme is kind of paralleled with Jon not being able to know that Bran is alive so that he does or doesn't do certain things. The FM did an excellent job of helping her grow and have discipline. She can easily be no one now which makes her 'solo' (incognito) journey north much relatively less dangerous.

It would be silly for her to become a full fledged 13 year old assassin in the time frame of the story, but the things she learned there helped her character develop.

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

I honestly never thought I'd be a Jon / Arya shipper....a little too close relation for comfort....but jeez...it is kind of laid out there. Their close relationship....her blushing in his presence....what sibling blushes? Who makes ARYA blush?! Boys are stupid, right? I think there was more to their closeness than they realized. Not to mention that most of the people Jon crushes on have similar personalities to Arya and Arya kind of likes the unconventional guys - I do think she was crushing on Gendry and I think a big portion of that was the fact that he was a bastard. Add in the affinity Targ's have for their close relatives :ack:

I SEE it. I SEE it can happen, but I don't WANT it to. Does anyone understand? xD

Okay can I just say this (to EVERYONE)... this was my first thread EVER and I was really nervous about starting this. Yet you've shown me that civilised conversations CAN be had even though we have different opinions. Us Arya fans have loads of different opinions (particularly regarding the "ships") but what I've seen so far is the ground of rational discussion, which is rather difficult to find concerning SOME OTHER CERTAIN Stark-fans. So yeah... thanks for making my thread so amazing, you all <3

[Alia of the knife]

IMHO, I truly think that the relationship that Jon has with Arya symbolizes the spiritual connection with his Mother, but it won't make sense until he knows who his Mother is.

Kids react and blush over all kinds of things, especially when getting attention.

HOWEVER

If Aegon does exist, (whether it's YG, Aurane Waters, etc)., I could see Martin making a parallel between Bloodraven, Shiera Seastar and Bittersteele, but this generation, it's Jon, Aegon, and Arya, (but I personally really hope not).

[evita mgfs]

I SEE it. I SEE it can happen, but I don't WANT it to. Does anyone understand? xD

Okay can I just say this (to EVERYONE)... this was my first thread EVER and I was really nervous about starting this. Yet you've shown me that civilised conversations CAN be had even though we have different opinions. Us Arya fans have loads of different opinions (particularly regarding the "ships") but what I've seen so far is the ground of rational discussion, which is rather difficult to find concerning SOME OTHER CERTAIN Stark-fans. So yeah... thanks for making my thread so amazing, you all <3

:agree: You are so right! This thread has been an absolute pleasure, and I myself was terrified of my thread on the Direwolves and Dogs in a SoIaF. But a lot of the same wonderful people are analyzing here as they are in my first successful post that someone finally responded to. All my others were duds - no one commented at all.

Nice of you to point this out. :agree:

[evita mgfs]

I think Jon and Arya's connection is Lyanna related - I do not think for a minute he has those kind of feelings for Arya. Maybe in a Marcia / Greg Brady Bunch sort of way, but it is just the hormones raging, if it is even anything.

IMO she has a little something something going on for Jaqen, because she sure pesters the KOM in the HoB&W about Jaqen. She asks him several times if he knows him. But of course Jaqen is no one, so the KOM is not lying.

What did Jaqen say? Lose one face and let the next be born? I can't remember. It reminded somewhat of what Aemon says to Jon Snow: kill the boy and let the man be born, or something aong those lines.

Just my ramblings again. :blushing: :dunno:

[Quiet Isle]

IMHO, I truly think that the relationship that Jon has Arya is the spiritual connection with his Mother, but it won't make sense until he knows who his Mother is.

Kids react and blush over all kinds of things, especially when getting attention.

HOWEVER

If Aegon does exist, (whether it's YG, Aurane Waters, etc)., I could see Martin making a parallel between Bloodraven, Shiera Seastar and Bittersteele, but his generation, it's Jon, Aegon, and Arya, (but I personally really hope not).

BINGO. this is about arya being so similar to Jon's mother Lyanna. it's not a romantic love connection between them. it's about their mutual respect and admiration and also about being a LITTLE GREENSEER in their connection. Jon and Arya just "get" each other. i hope they survive, but i'm afraid that Jon and Dany are gonna pass when their missions are done. just like all the great HEROES of the world do. they pass on, and leave their legacy for future gens to look up to. and it goes on and on. The Wheel of Time.

[Alia of the knife]

I think Jon and Arya's connection is Lyanna related - I do not think for a minute he has those kind of feelings for Arya. Maybe in a Marcia / Greg Brady Bunch sort of way, but it is just the hormones raging, if it is even anything.

IMO she has a little something something going on for Jaqen, because she sure pesters the KOM in the HoB&W about Jaqen. She asks him several times if he knows him. But of course Jaqen is no one, so the KOM is not lying.

What did Jaqen say? Lose one face and let the next be born? I can't remember. It reminded somewhat of what Aemon says to Jon Snow: kill the boy and let the man be born, or something aong those lines.

Just my ramblings again. :blushing: :dunno:

Love your "ramblings" and insights. :bowdown:

BINGO. this is about arya being so similar to Jon's mother Lyanna. it's not a romantic love connection between them. it's about their mutual respect and admiration and also about being a LITTLE GREENSEER in their connection. Jon and Arya just "get" each other. i hope they survive, but i'm afraid that Jon and Dany are gonna pass when their missions are done. just like all the great HEROES of the world do. they pass on, and leave their legacy for future gens to look up to. and it goes on and on. The Wheel of Time.

Yes, I agree with this as well.

I don't believe that Jon is currently dead, but I can see him making the ultimate sacrifice to put things back into balance, or as in "Dune" where Leto II morphed into Shaihulud, I could see Jon warging a dragon, and unable to come back to his Human form, truly becomes one with and is the last Dragon.

[modbelle]

Why do I think Melisandre and Arya will come at odds?

-Arya can see through glamors, and right now Melisandre is arguable one of the most gifted. I don't think this is a concidence. If anyone will see the real Melisandre it will be Arya.

-Rh'llor is one of the many faces of death. So is the Cold Ones. There needs to be a balance, otherwise the Cold Ones or Rh'llor will end up destroying everyone (the song of fire and ice- how does the world end in fire or ice the poem goes). The world can't be all ice or it will freeze and it can't be all fire or it burns. Melisandre wants the red god as the only god. In the end, I truly believe she will have to be stopped/killed if the world will remain.

-Jon fears being in her debt, which seeing how book five ended, he may very well be. Arya may need to destroy Melisandre to disassociate her from her brother, and Melisandre's influence possibly over him. Another words, Melisandre will be a threat.

-Finally, I just don't see Melisandre making it out alive, and for some reason my gut is pointing to a FM ending her, maybe because of how powerful/tough I believe Melisandre is. If it's not Arya that kills her, my second guess would be Jaqen. Still everything for me points to Arya being Melisandre's destruction. Of course, the next book may very easily prove me wrong (and GRRM will lol at my attempting to figure the plot out).

[Lady Flandrensis]

They are truly fantastic.

:cheers:

[evita mgfs]

Once again, you've hit the nail on the head. :agree:

If the story calls for her death, I guess I'll have to suck it up like a big girl and try to move on with my life. But as you mentioned, if George decides to kill one of his favorite characters for the sake of being unconventional, I might just have to pay him a visit.

Though, as ARYa_Nym rightly pointed out, GRRM particularly enjoys writing Arya's chapters, which gives me hope that, whatever he may have planned, it's not likely to disappoint.

Was this mentioned in the text or did GRRM state this in a separate interview? I'm very curious as it's yet another thing to add to Arya's "BAMF" list. ;)

The textual evidence that I found to prove Arya can see through the glamor, or the smoke and mirrors illusion created by the faceless men’s magic, occurs in DwD. “Arya seated herself in a weirwood chair with a face of ebony. Bloody sores held no terror for her now. She had been too long in the House of Black and White to be afraid of a false face” (836).

Also, in DwD, Arya recognize that Cassomo the Conjurer does not perform true magic. Arya sees through his “sleight of hand” trick of swallowing mice and having them come out his ears. She tells him that what he does is not magic – the mice are really running up his sleeve to his ears (725), This suggests that Arya differentiates between sleight of hand as an illusion, or stage trick, and the true magic of face changing, the gift of Him of Many Faces.

Hope this helps. :dunno:

[Budj]

I don't care who they end up with. Just saying it's interesting. I agree it could be a Lyanna mother connection thing, but that's just as speculative.