Arya / No One / and the Water Motif in Braavos

[Florina Laufeyson]

I tend to like darker characters anyway. (unless their name is Cersei) And Arya is literally Mini Me. (only without the murder aspect...)

Im looking at that map of Braavos and i noticed that the House of Black And White is right on the water. Arya feels pretty at home there (doesnt she even equate the place as similar to the Winterfell Crypts? Or am i misremembering again?). She also loves the Purple Harbor because of the different sorts of people who go in and out of there.

Another thing, a lot of characters end up seasick when on a boat. Rodrik Cassel was all hurling his guts out in AGoT. Sam was none too pleased, Gilly and the babe, same story. Even Tyrion has moments of seasickness... Arya as Salty does not seem to get seasick at all upon her journey to Braavos. She even feels right at home on the boat. Another interesting water parallel.

Great posts everyone! :bowdown:

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Im looking at that map of Braavos and i noticed that the House of Black And White is right on the water. Arya feels pretty at home there (doesnt she even equate the place as similar to the Winterfell Crypts? Or am i misremembering again?). She also loves the Purple Harbor because of the different sorts of people who go in and out of there.

You're not misremembering. She's made Braavos/home parallel references several times, particularly about the weirwood doors, if I remember correctly.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

This is a great thread! I read the first few posts a few days ago, and first thought: "Oh, just a bunch of bullshit", but now I'm truly fascinated.

Someone compared Arya with a tree/oak nymph, and it made me think of Dunks little rhyme: Oak and iron guard me well, or else I'm doomed and going to hell" or something like that, it's close enough. Dunk thinks oak and iron are shield and sword, but what if they are an old prayer, and are more that that. There are a lot of connections between iron and fire, as protection against the Others, and to keep ghosts in their grave, so what if OAK stands for tree nymphs as protection? That would make Arya a protector of the innocent, a living shield..

[ARYa_Nym]

Another thing, a lot of characters end up seasick when on a boat. Rodrik Cassel was all hurling his guts out in AGoT. Sam was none too pleased, Gilly and the babe, same story. Even Tyrion has moments of seasickness... Arya as Salty does not seem to get seasick at all upon her journey to Braavos. She even feels right at home on the boat. Another interesting water parallel.

Good point. It's often called greensickness when the stomach feels like that.

Sam even suffered from it when he went to visit the Redwyne's and Randyll Tarly was digusted by it.

Sansa was seasick for the majority of the time on the Merling King. Both her and Tyrion could barely sleep while at sea. Tyrion threw up a lot. I suppose he liked the wine because it would make him pass out.

Olenna said that the sea would make Garth even more sick.

While with Quentyn, Gerris and Archie didn't want to get on another ship. Gerris because of corsairs and the smell of Adventure (it smelled rotten and of piss) and Archie suffered from greensickness.

Quentyn said to Gerris:

“Perhaps a Braavosi ship?” “And who will sail her? You? Me? Dornishmen had never been seafarers, not since Nymeria burned her ten thousand ships.”

Whereas as you said Arya feels right at home on the sea and aboard the ship. She saw a star too that was called the star of home and thought that her home could be ahead- the land associated with water.

Faint and far away the light burned, low on the horizon, shining through the sea mists. “It looks like a star,” said Arya. “The star of home,” said Denyo.

The star of home. Arya stood at the prow, one hand resting on the gilded figurehead, a maiden with a bowl of fruit. For half a heartbeat she let herself pretend that it was her home ahead.

More on trees. The area where the Blackwoods and the Brackens fight over called Pennytree was given its name by a huge oak tree that has coins nailed to it.

"He tried to count the pennies nailed to the old oak, but there were too many of them and he kept losing count. What’s that all about? The Blackwood boy would tell him if he asked, but that would spoil the mystery."

This is a great thread! I read the first few posts a few days ago, and first thought: "Oh, just a bunch of bullshit", but now I'm truly fascinated.

Someone compared Arya with a tree/oak nymph, and it made me think of Dunks little rhyme: Oak and iron guard me well, or else I'm doomed and going to hell" or something like that, it's close enough. Dunk thinks oak and iron are shield and sword, but what if they are an old prayer, and are more that that. There are a lot of connections between iron and fire, as protection against the Others, and to keep ghosts in their grave, so what if OAK stands for tree nymphs as protection? That would make Arya a protector of the innocent, a living shield..

Brienne says of shields:

She meant to keep the heavy oaken shield Jaime had given her, the one he’d borne himself from Harrenhal to King’s Landing. A pine shield had its advantages. It was lighter, and therefore easier to bear, and the soft wood was more like to trap a foeman’s axe or sword. But oak gave more protection, if you were strong enough to bear its weight.

When Arya is in KL she bars the oaken doors and thinks no one will be able to get into her special place and she mainly liked the door.

"Her bechamber was the only place that Arya liked in King's landing, and the thing she liked best about it was the door, a massive slab of dark oak with black iron bands. When she slammed that door...nobody could get into her room, not Septa Mordane or Fat Tom or Sansa or Jory or the Hound, nobody! She slammed it now. When the bar was down, Arya finally felt safe enough to cry."

[evita mgfs]

I checked out the Symbol Compendium to gain insight into Arya’s counterpoint to the direwolf, or wolf, as well as Arya’s connection to water. Here are the results of my findings:

WOLF

The WOLF figure is recognized as part of fairy tales, where he symbolizes the “enemy,” a menacing animal that hunts, stalks, and devours his prey. In psychology, the WOLF represents an “untamed energy”.

Well, the direwolves of House Stark definitely fit the bill for being an enemy to some, and definitely they are “menacing” when they attack the Frey ward, Maester Luwin, and others, but they are also protective of their Stark masters, respectively. The direwolves also hunt, stalk, and devour their prey, which Martin evidences on numerous occasions. Their prey is not necessarily confined to helpless grandmothers. They seek prey in the wild and like the hunt, kill, and the feast, as many animals in the wild do demonstrate, not just wolves. However, the danger factor of the direwolves is a given, especially when they react to the emotions of their Masters.

Speaking specifically to Arya and Nymeria, they do represent “the enemy” for some. For example, Arya makes herself the enemy of her pack of “would be brothers” on their sojourn to the Wall, although Arya eventually wises up and plays nice. Specifically in ACoK, Arya viciously beats Hot Pie with her wooden sword, which results in Hot Pie receiving a broken nose and Arya receiving a beating from Yoren. She also challenges Gendry to one-on-one combat with swords, and she even “menaces”, if you will, the three captives caged and chained, smacking Biter and drawing blood. When Jaqen asks for more beer, she denies him.

Likewise, Nymeria is leading a pack of wolves that, according to rumors at the ivy covered inn, has caused many deaths in the Riverlands. One patron even says Nymeria stole a babe from its mother’s arms for dinner. She is even referred to as “a she-wolf bitch from the seventh hell” (85) leading a pack of hundreds, all “mankillers” (85). Supposedly they even killed a pack of wolfhounds on her trail back to her lair, killing every hound – not one survived (85).

Does Arya mirror Nymeria as a “mankiller”? Well, to some extent, yes. She kills a stable hand while escaping from King’s Landing, and a guard while escaping Harrenhall. As a servant of Him of Many Faces, she takes a life as well. On her own, she executes Dareon as a deserter of the Night’s Watch.

Arya, like her counterpoint Nymeria, does what she does in order to survive, or she seeks justice on behalf of her bastard brother Jon Snow. The death she takes on behalf of Him of Many Faces is not her choice to make. She follows orders from the Faceless Men.

Arya does have the psychological component of the symbol of wolf in that she represents “untamed energy,” as does Nymeria. For Arya, it is her Stark blood that makes her “wolf”, and her warging gift that allows her to become one with Nymeria. She inherits her gifts, for the Starks have the blood of the First Men flowing in their veins. Moreover, the old gods sent the direwolves to the Stark children to protect and assist them in their challenging futures.

Nymeria’s “untamed spirit” is part of natural instinct inherent in the breed, which could also be said of the Stark children, who all have the power to warg, according to Martin.

WATER SYMBOL

Water popularly symbolizes “LIFE”, or birth and fertility, which Arya as a female may someday do if she wishes. However, Arya also offers a paradox for she also brings death to others before and during her allegiance with the society of Faceless Men.

On the other hand, she saves lives, whether they are worthy subjects or not. It is her actions that bring about the freedom and escape from death by fire for Jaqen, Biter, and Rorge. But then again, Jaqen repays the debt by gifting Arya three deaths. In order to save her pack of Hot Pie and Gendry, she masterminds their escape from HarrenHell, killing a guard to execute their freedom. Sadly, her small pack later abandons her for other pursuits.

In baptism, water symbolizes purification of the soul and an admission of faith. Using an example from ACoK, Arya throws away all vestiges of Westeros, tossing her clothing and treasured possessions in the canal outside the HoB&W. [Needle has already been covered, so I am skipping it here]. She is then symbolically reborn as “NO ONE”, a servant of Him of Many Faces, although she cannot sincerely forgot her real identity as Arya of House Stark. Moreover, her indoctrination into the FM requires her to drink from the cold cup and perform her first hit. Now the kindly man assures her that the “gift” of death is on behalf of Him of Many Faces, and it is not for her to decide who lives or dies. Arya seems as if she is a “punisher” acting out the requests of a religious order, so is this a cold-blooded assassination if she follows orders governed by a deity?

Water also behaves as a destructive force, for waters flood lands and water erodes surfaces over time. With Arya’s connection to water, and if she is part of the godhood represented by Him of Many Faces, and if Him of Many Faces is also known as the old gods in the weirwood trees, her brother Bran, and BloodRaven, then perhaps in the future Arya will be able to control the water forces and deliver a devastating flood on behalf of these gods. Mayhap other water figures in the book will also be part of this scenario, such as Howland Reed and the Drowned God.

As one of the four elements, WATER is essential to life for people cannot endure without water consumption. Arya serves WATER to the Faceless Men during their monthly meeting when the moon is black. So she acts as water bearer and as life-bringer, providing the sustenance needed to survive.

WATER is associated with the colors blue and green. Martin describes “the river was a blue-green ribbon shining in the morning sun” (ACoK 211).

Water has the characteristics of fluidity, which Arya manifests when she becomes a “water dancer”, her movements quick and graceful as she strikes her fencing pose.

Water has the characteristic of cohesiveness, which Arya demonstrates in her efforts to form a new pack with Hot Pie and Gendry.

Water represents “change” and “passage of time”. Arya does undergo changes in that she accepts many new identities throughout her journey to becoming “No One”, and then all the future masks she will wear as her journey continues and she learns and grows.

Lastly, flowing water is associated with the passage of time. As Arya weaves her way to Braavos, a city of water, masks and whispers, she also has water sources along the King’s Road, as well as off – and then she travels across the Narrow Sea. Thus, Arya’s odyssey is certainly marked by water imagery and a motif that speaks to time passing as she tries to journey to home, to her mother, and eventually to Braavos.

Once Arya, Yoren, and company depart from the King’s Road, Martin describes the new path and its followers here: “The human flood that had flowed down the kingsroad was only a trickle here” (136).

“. . . the path was so narrow and crooked that their pace had dropped to a crawl” (136).

I feel as if I had to say some unpleasant things about Arya to make this work, but I tried sincerely to justify her "assassination association"! :dunno:

[Little Wing]

Okay, this is from an article on a wolfish Slavic deity:

As we already know, the wolf is an animal the people believe to be allied with dark powers, the Underworld and demon folk in general. On the planetary sphere level, its match is naturally the Moon, while on the psychological level the wolf’s connected to the impulsive and the unconscious.

That the wolf is associated with the underworld as well reminds me of the weird connection/attraction some Starks have to the crypts. But then Theon also dreamed about them... hm...

[modbelle]

Could the water motif be connected with her family like a weird reassurance she isn't getting as lost amongst the FM as we fear and that throughout all of Arya's travels she is learning to be strong and get in touch with her innerself? Water and swimming is linked with the Tully's and Riverrun. Also, what is ice but frozen water? I feel like she is following the advice given to her and both her parents family words are her purpose and motivating factor. Family, Duty, Honor are her priorities, and see is busy preparing for Winter is Coming.

[Ice Turtle]

Arya is half wolf half fish....

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

More on trees. The area where the Blackwoods and the Brackens fight over called Pennytree was given its name by a huge oak tree that has coins nailed to it.

Brienne says of shields:

When Arya is in KL she bars the oaken doors and thinks no one will be able to get into her special place and she mainly liked the door.

Yes I think the whole tree nymph idea could give a whole new meaning to the supposed protection of oak. Some long forgotten wisdom and magic. I think the Oak and Iron combination can't be a coincedence in the rhyme. We know almost for sure that iron means more than just swords as well.

Also, Arya and water powers makes me think of "dead things in the water"...

@evita: wow! what an amazing analysis! *clap clap*

About the wolves not attacking Arya when she's making water in the woods: it might not be because she's marking her territory, but more that the wolves and their 'masters' have the same smell (not literally, but only for wolves to notice). That because of the bond between animal and master, they become so much alike that their smells are similar too. So they didn't attack her, because they recognised her as being (an aspect of) Nymeria, like Nym being an aspect of Arya..

Offtopic: Are there any threads about the stars around here? They're mentioned so often in the books, and their names that there must be more to them (like Dany seeing Quaithe with a mask of starlight).

[Dr. Pepper]

WATER SYMBOL

Water popularly symbolizes “LIFE”, or birth and fertility, which Arya as a female may someday do if she wishes. However, Arya also offers a paradox for she also brings death to others before and during her allegiance with the society of Faceless Men.

<snip>

Water also behaves as a destructive force, for waters flood lands and water erodes surfaces over time. With Arya’s connection to water, and if she is part of the godhood represented by Him of Many Faces, and if Him of Many Faces is also known as the old gods in the weirwood trees, her brother Bran, and BloodRaven, then perhaps in the future Arya will be able to control the water forces and deliver a devastating flood on behalf of these gods. Mayhap other water figures in the book will also be part of this scenario, such as Howland Reed and the Drowned God.

What are we to make of this paradox? Of Arya simultaneously being a life-affirming symbol while also being a symbol of death? There has been discussion in other threads about the necessity of restoring balance to the natural and magical world. Does Arya's associations with water -the life affirming and the destructive nature- show a certain type of balance with one natural element?

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to ask. I find it's rather difficult to wrap my head around what all of this means for Arya and the story as a whole.

[Ice Turtle]

What are we to make of this paradox? Of Arya simultaneously being a life-affirming symbol while also being a symbol of death? There has been discussion in other threads about the necessity of restoring balance to the natural and magical world. Does Arya's associations with water -the life affirming and the destructive nature- show a certain type of balance with one natural element?

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to ask. I find it's rather difficult to wrap my head around what all of this means for Arya and the story as a whole.

Well, both fire and ice magic produce wights, the undead. Unnatural creatures neither alive neither dead but between. Paradoxically water is what you get when you put ice and fire together. Though Patchface seems to be doing mess with my little theory, but maybe he is just FM and not an undead.

[ARYa_Nym]

Yes I think the whole tree nymph idea could give a whole new meaning to the supposed protection of oak. Some long forgotten wisdom and magic. I think the Oak and Iron combination can't be a coincedence in the rhyme. We know almost for sure that iron means more than just swords as well.

Also, Arya and water powers makes me think of "dead things in the water"...

This is obvious to me now but more on my Arya as a mermaid theory was that I was reading one of the Patchface threads about this prophecy:

“We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh.”

Someone said that since Patchface usually says under the sea to refer to death the fact that mermaids are of the sea they would be people of death.

I think that matches Arya.

Also, the KM told Arya that the FM are like dark angels.

"On the day that we are born the Many-Faced God sends each of us a dark angel to walk through life beside us. When our sins and our sufferings grow too great to be borne, the angel takes us by the hand to lead us to the nightlands, where the stars burn ever bright. Those who come to drink from the black cup are looking for their angels."

They lead people to their deaths to bring them to the nightlands and like I said many myths around mermaids is that they lead men to their deaths.

As for seahorses that's House Velaryon's arms.

They rule over Driftmark, the largest island of the Blackwater Bay. Their arms depict a silver seahorse on sea green.^[1][3] Their words do not appear in the books, but according to semi-canon sources they are "The Old, the True, the Brave".^[4]

Evita's post upthread about Arya riding over the water on a horse gave me seahorse vibes although I don't think Patchface's prophecy refers to her.

IA that oak and iron could mean some long forgotten form of protection.

[The Nite Wolf]

While re-reading Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, I was particularly interested by the waterfall inside of Gringotts known as "The Thief's Downfall."

"The Thief's Downfall!" said Griphook, clambering to his feet and looking back at the deluge onto the tracks, which, Harry knew now, had been more than water. "It washes away all enchantment, all magical concealment!"

As many others have eloquently put it, there is much water symbolism in Arya's chapters and the Thief's Downfall seems reminiscent of Arya's own ability to detect a glamour - the "washing away" of that which is meant to conceal. And to a lesser extent, neither is she fooled by Cossomo the Conjurer's sleight of hand, which he claims is magic. Just an interesting parallel I thought I'd mention. :)

EDIT: I apologize if this has already been discussed, but could the fact that Arya speaks the trade language also be a water parallel? She does call it the language of "the wharves and docks and sailor's taverns."

[ARYa_Nym]

EDIT: I apologize if this has already been discussed, but could the fact that Arya speaks the trade language also be a water parallel? She does call it the language of "the wharves and docks and sailor's taverns."

It hasn't. Yeah that could be another example.

I thought Arya's connection to water could compare to the COTF.

Old Nan told Bran:

"Old Nan says the children knew the songs of the trees, that they could fly like birds and swim like fish and talk to animals..."

They also have a connection to water and wanted to flood an area. Plus, when Bran saw Leaf he thought she was Arya from a distance. They had similar physical characteristics from afar with being scrawny, petite, and having wild hair.

There were areas in the Riverlands that used to be sacred to the COTF. Arya spent time there.

High Heart is a very tall hill in the Riverlands. It was sacred to the children of the forest. Around its crown stands a ring of thirty-one weirwood stumps.

As for crannogs, Howland learned to control water.

“Once there was a curious lad who lived in the Neck. He was small like all crannogmen, but brave and smart and strong as well. He grew up hunting and fishing and climbing trees, and learned all the magics of my people.”

“...he could breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear.”

Water is what keeps people alive in Winterfell during the winter.

"The castle had been built over natural hot springs, and the scalding waters rushed through its walls and chambers like blood through a man's body, driving the chill from the stone hals, filling the glass gardens with a moist warmth, keeping the earth from freezing. Open pools smoked day and night in a dozen small courtyards. That was a little thing, in summer; in winter, it was the difference between life and death."

Anyways, Syrio told Arya:

"...the water dance, swift and sudden. All men are made of water, do you know this? When you pierce them, the water leaks out and they die."

It was theorized that the Others' method of fighting could be like dancing whether wood or water.

Tall, it was, and gaunt and hard as old bones, with flesh pale as milk. Its armor seemed to change color as it moved; here it was white as new-fallen snow, there black as shadow, everywhere dappled with the deep grey-green of the trees. The patterns ran like moonlight on the water with every step it took.

The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

Could there be something special about the 31 stumps at High Heart? If I remember right, in Harrenhal in the hall with the hearths she once counts 31 and once 33.. Since Harrenhal is so close to the Isle of Faces, it could be that there are 31 hearths there for a reason..

The moon and stars seems to play an important part in all the books as well, it might be worth a discussion on it's own, although I personally don't have a theory yet.

[evita mgfs]

What are we to make of this paradox? Of Arya simultaneously being a life-affirming symbol while also being a symbol of death? There has been discussion in other threads about the necessity of restoring balance to the natural and magical world. Does Arya's associations with water -the life affirming and the destructive nature- show a certain type of balance with one natural element?

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to ask. I find it's rather difficult to wrap my head around what all of this means for Arya and the story as a whole.

:bowdown: Thanks for the post, Dr. Pepper. Good to have you back.

Happy to TRY to answer. But I will be speculating with my own crackpot theories, and maybe I have skewed the evidences and somehow misinterpreted, which is very likely.

It took me a while to answer this for I really had to draw lose ends together, for Arya can be a conundrum, as are many of Martin's brilliant characterizations. Like the forces of nature, the old gods givith and taketh away.

Water gives life, yet the water may drown humans and other creatures.

I think this hints at why bad things happen to good people in real life, and in Martin's world the vengeance of the old gods may seem unfair to some readers. Just like the forces of nature can be good and they can be bad; like people, and the Olympian godhood, they may punish with one hand and take away with the other.

For example, IMO, the old gods exact vengeance on Jaime Lannister for his crimes of violating the laws of hospitality at WF when he makes love to his own sister, wife of the king, and pushes Bran out the window after he had just said to him, "Give me your hand." Now, how appropriate is the punoishment Jaime receives on behalf of the old gods? Death, no. Take his hand literally, for that is what he lives for, his fighting hand and battle. By doing this, the old gods guarantee Jaime much suffering as a cripple [his worst nightmare], and even force his hand, sorry about the puns, allowing him to somehow redeem himself for his violations of the old gods, who also frown upon adultery and incest, especially while in the home of Lord Eddard Stark, his host.

Cersei is every bit as guilty, and how is she being punished.? The proud lion of Lannister who now has lost one child and has had to parade through King's Landing shorne, naked. Now, Isn't this everyone's worst nightmare? Right up there with falling and maybe actually landing? [see how Martin does it? Genious! I apologize for eulogizng on this master of fiction in our lifetime!]

I searched the four elements to see what I could see to further shed light on Arya and her connection to water.

In ancient times, the wise men of our western civilization studied the elements, Fire, Water, Wind and Earth, to further understand the universe and by doing so to further understand humankind.

The CoF and the Pact of the First Man gathered the wise men of each group to form the agreement; these wise men may have been the greenseers and the greendreamers and the wood dancers, and the CoF. I tend to believe Kiss’d by Fire’s thesis that at this meeting , certain powers in the seven kingdoms universe were laid on the table as bargaining chips: warging, greensight, the powers of the roots and trees, the powers of water in the crannogs and marshes and water in general, the powers of air and fire, and so on.

If this premise is true, the FM may have won for themselves control over, in part, the elements of nature that are the beasts in forest, the birds in sky, and the fish in water. We can see this played out in the Starks, who have said gifts, and some Starks are achieving great power in the godhood. But it seems to me overseeing Earth is a job in itself for one greenseer. So the CoF may have likely marked Arya and her Nymeria to mirror the characteristics of water, along with Howland Reed and the Drowned god, for overseeing the waters of the world of the seven kingdoms is a lot of water to cover. Likewise, Sansa in the Eyrie seems the most like to represent air, and once she discovers her inner warg and learns to fly, she will be a force to be reckoned with as well.

The wise men may have seen themselves as a reflection of the universe. They studied the stars and nature, and used the information they gleaned as a method of understanding themselves.

This pact may have determined that by assigning regions to watch over, for all the Starks “watch” in some capacity, they could prevent an unnatural force from rising to threaten the balance of the universe.

These wise men who form the pact may have concluded that through these elements they could bring balance by uniting these powers if ever needed to fight against the true foe, the Others and their wights, who represents an unnatural force threatening to bring the dark night and an endless winter.

By uniting soon, and I know these forces sound like The Avengers, or even The X-Men, or The Magnificent Seven, (all these movies that no doubt subconsciously influenced me to form my theory), they may speak to restoring the the balance of the universe.

To do this end the CoF will have to unite the remaining players in this game, and even speak with and then wake their own dead from the weirwoods and the roots of trees. In this vein, Jon Snow, who may very well be dead, will rise to lead the army of the dead Starks against these evil forces head on while his sisters and brother(s) and the dragons, maybe with Dany, Tyrion, and Jaqen H’ghar as the riders. (And that is as far as I fleshed my theory out!).

I hope that you can follow me. That is as far as I have gotten.

Every day we warm ourselves by Fire,

Wash ourselves in Water,

Feel the Wind in our hair,

Walk upon the Earth.

Because of this, the elements are considered by some to be very important and, by analogy, can be compared as follows:-

Air = Thought = Sansa / Eyrie / Jon/Winter???

Fire = Desire=Dragons / Jon/Winter???

Water = Emotions =Arya / Jon/Winter???

Earth = Stability =Bran and the old gods / Jon/Winter???

We use many popular sayings even today to relate to the four elements:

Cool breeze of reason (AIR)

Flames of Passion (FIRE)

Swamped by emotion (WATER)

Solid as a rock (EARTH)

And there are many more analogies. :dunno:

[ARYa_Nym]

Could there be something special about the 31 stumps at High Heart? If I remember right, in Harrenhal in the hall with the hearths she once counts 31 and once 33.. Since Harrenhal is so close to the Isle of Faces, it could be that there are 31 hearths there for a reason..

The moon and stars seems to play an important part in all the books as well, it might be worth a discussion on it's own, although I personally don't have a theory yet.

Hmm not sure.

As for moon and stars when Arya is blind they are the only light that she gets during the night. Sailors often use the stars to guide them btw.

"Her nights were lit by distant stars and the shimmer of moonlight on snow, but every dawn she woke to darkness."

In ADWD, Arya mentioned the Cult of Starry Wisdom having acolytes that sang to the stars.

Sam mentioned bravos water dancing in the starlight.

The KM told Arya that the Many Faced Gods has as many faces as the sky has stars.

Jon said:

"Maester Luwin had taught him his stars as a boy in Winterfell; he had learned the names of the twelve houses of heaven and the rulers of each; he could find the seven wanderers sacred to the Faith; he was old friends with the Ice Dragon, the Shadowcat, the Moonmaid, and the Sword of Morning. "

"And when the Thief was in the Moonmaid, that was a propitious time for a man to steal a woman. "

The Thief was sacred to the Smith. As mentioned before Arya has strong associations to the moon and was told that she had a smith's hands.

Jamie mentions the Moonmaid being hidden behind a tree.

The King’s Crown was at the zenith, and he could see the Stallion rearing, and there the Swan. The Moonmaid, shy as ever, was half-hidden behind a pine tree.

The NK's queen had skin as pale as the moon and eyes like stars.

"Skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars."

The Dothraki believe:

"The Dothraki believed the stars were horses made of fire, a great herd that galloped across the sky by night."

More on water. When Nymeria gets Cat out of the water she actually swims in order to do so.

"She splashed noisily through the shallows and threw herself into the deeper water, her legs churning. The current was strong but she was stronger. She swam, following her nose. The river smells were rich and wet, but those were not the smells that pulled her. She paddled after the sharp red whisper of cold blood, the sweet cloying stench of death."

After Arya killed the Bolton guard she thinks:

“Her fingers were sticky with blood, and the smell was making her mare skittish. It’s no matter, she thought, swinging up into the saddle. The rain will wash them clean again..

I thought I'd mention the Rhoyne because of Nymeria parallels.

River pirates can be found along it. Voltanis at its mouth is considered to be when the river kisses the sea.

The Rhoynar city Ghoyan Drohe had been a city of canals and fountains. It was green and flowering.

Apparently there were red wolves who roamed there because Griff was wearing a cloakskin of one.

Nymeria's palace was of pink and green marble. Ny Sar was her city. The area where it lies and the Trident are almost equal in width.

It lies where the Rhoyne and the Wild Daughter river Noyne meet. Arya would definitely be considered the wild daughter.

“This is Ny Sar, where the Mother gathers in her Wild Daughter, Noyne,” said Yandry,” but she will not reach her widest point until she meets her other daughters…the Darkling Daughter, full of gold and amber from the Axe and pine-cones from the Forest of Qohor. South of there the Mother meets Lhorulu, the Smiling Daughter from the Golden Fields. ”

Go a bit farther down and you will meet Chroyane (Sorrows) which used to be a festival city where the streets were made of water and the houses of gold. It is said there are tormented souls beneath the water.

Garin the Great was a Rhoynar. He was mocked by Valyrian men and called upon his Mother to destroy them.

"But in the night waters rose and drowned them…They are down there still beneath the water, they who were once lords of fire. "

I've mentioned that a parallel to Queen Nymeria and now Garin the Great were that they both (Arya and the Nymerias) were fleeing someone. Nymeria gathered her people along the Rhoyne to flee the fire lords and Nymeria her pack along the Trident after she fled the Lannisters. Arya wanted to drown her Lannister enemies in KL and Garin drowned his fire lord enemeis.

The former Palace of Love that is now known as the Palace of Sorrows had:

“There were gardens bright with flowers and fountains sparkling golden in the sun. The steps once rang to the sound of lovers’ footsteps”

Water and flowers. Arya loves flowers.

"her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father."

"When we were crossing the Neck, I counted thirty-six flowers I never saw before, and Mycah showed me a lizard-lion."

Tyrion also spotted a wooden keep by the water.

ETA: Nymeria's city also had a harbor and we know that the harbor is Arya's favorite place in Braavos.

Its port that once saw hundreds of ships of all sizes sail into the harbor.

[evita mgfs]

Okay, this is from an article on a wolfish Slavic deity:

That the wolf is associated with the underworld as well reminds me of the weird connection/attraction some Starks have to the crypts. But then Theon also dreamed about them... hm...

:agree: I agree. :bowdown: Little Wing! And as an agent of Him of Many Faces, Arya is not unlike Hermes, who leads the dead to the Underworld. And speaking of those crypts, I am obsessed with Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, and so much reminds me of incidences in Martin's ASoIaF, which gives me hope that those crypts will open to yield up their dead, and a scene will transpire that will speak to the Book of the Dead in The Odyssey. Odysseus must visit Hades domain, where he holds speech with the dead, and some are his very own comrades who fell at Troy, or who were killed on their journeys home after the war.

Odysseus must speak to the blind prophet Tiresias, who knows all in both life and death, even though he is blind [Maester Aemon / Blind Beth.] He speaks to Achilles [Rhaegar], King of the Elysian Fields, Agamemnon [Robert - both were deceived and urged to die quicly by their wives]; his mother Eurycleeia [ Lady Catelyn] who dies of a broken heart in his absence [poor Odysseus weeps for he does not know his mother is dead - he tries to hold her three times, and three times she slips through his arms :crying: ]. Oh, and I sometimes think Odysseus is like Tyrion, for Odysseus is not handsome nor buff and hot like Achilles, but he could speak and wiggle his way out of danger, and so on. Odysseus is Brains to Achilles' Brawn- like Tyrion and his Bronn! Tee Hee. :eek:

But I would love to meet some of those dead Stark Kings of Winter and Lords of Winterfell. It would make for a good read! :drool:

Edited for typo errors

[evita mgfs]

Arya is the WATER element, so I examined what I know of water. I even found some inspiration in my spiritual-like affirmations, which I have gathered over the years from self-help books and then journaled them. Forgive my poetic nature here.

In meditations I go to my “happy place” or places, all of them involving the sights, sounds, tastes, smells, and feel of water. [The format for this piece is an easy line poem formula, which I had my students use, repeating the phrases “I Remember” and “Childhood Is”. These poems they then added to their sophomore autobiography project. It is an easy format for students because they do not have to rhyme, as you see I have not.]

Now, you can see if any of the poetic definitions apply to our good little girl Arya of House Stark.

WATER

Water quenches the thirst of the earth made barren by fire and air.

Water is the cry of joy or the sob of heartbreak.

Water is the reflection of the sun setting in the West just as the silver moon climbs slowly to claim a darkening sky of shadows.

Water is maturity. It changes. It adapts.

Water restores the balance of harmony. It is deceptive, subtle and elusive. It has force and power, rhythm and cycle, charity and compassion.

Water spits in the face of fire.

Water is wet; it is a fluid. It is heavy and mysterious, and water takes the shape of whatever contains it.

Water is the food of life, for water is essential for life. Water is within us.

Water is serenity.

Water is blue-green, sometimes clear, sometimes muddied, and sometimes salty; sometimes water is passive.

Water is the swift current of a brooding storm.

Water is the “wine dark sea” of Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey.

Water is the gentle ripples. It moves, it ebbs, it flows, it soothes.

Water is a mirror.

Water needs to be contained if it is not to run unchecked and wasted.

Water will break the walls of a dam, yet water maintains so that rivers will not dry up and the monsoons will come.

Water is as gentle as the stillness of a pool, or as raging and as uncontrolled as the mighty rollers of a storm tossed sea.

Water is not light and bright like air, and it is not the heat of fire.

[evita mgfs]

While re-reading Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, I was particularly interested by the waterfall inside of Gringotts known as "The Thief's Downfall."

As many others have eloquently put it, there is much water symbolism in Arya's chapters and the Thief's Downfall seems reminiscent of Arya's own ability to detect a glamour - the "washing away" of that which is meant to conceal. And to a lesser extent, neither is she fooled by Cossomo the Conjurer's sleight of hand, which he claims is magic. Just an interesting parallel I thought I'd mention. :)

EDIT: I apologize if this has already been discussed, but could the fact that Arya speaks the trade language also be a water parallel? She does call it the language of "the wharves and docks and sailor's taverns."

:agree: Yes! I met you in another thread, and I believe you asked me for evidence to support the fact that Arya could see through glamors because, and I am not sure - but someone from that thread was relying on the Wiki, which states that Arya leaves her face in the HoB&W.

I cannot remember which thread, but I remember you because you were so nice. Since then we I have uncovered another Wiki error regarding Robb's will, which the Wiki confirms was sent with Maege Mormont, but there is not concrete textual evidence to prove this, as Kiss'dByFire so finely proved in the Maege Mormont thread. She and ARYA NYM should write the Wiki because they can whip out quotes like mad.

I believe I also suggested the Tower of the Hand as a good, reliable source. They are accurate to a tee, but I have only been there a few times. I like the Wiki because it has illustrations, and I am a very colorful person!

:cheers: Good to hear from you again. You are invited to join a thread Florina Stark and The Pack Survives are getting together for a reread of ASoIaF. Our topic is going to be: Direwolves, Dragons, Mormont's Raven, and Cats. Doesn't that sound like fun? :dunno: