R+L=DS?

[OberynBlackfyre]

I think people are maybe choosing to close their eyes to some things.....what if he and jon are paternal twins? One getting the look of the Starks and Lyanna, while the other almost completely taking after Rhaegar? This would kind of create a parallel of "twins" or the brother/sister thing that we commonly see in the series. The Daynes, being of Dorne and staunch supporters of the Targaryens, may have told Darkstar slightly about his past. And since Doran has always been a secret Targaryen supporter, he could understand why Darkstar is so very dangerous.

And to the question of him acting his age-he most totally is. He acts first, then thinks later. He makes dramatic gestures. Plus, he has a deep hate for Lannister rule it may seem, which no one really understands.

Also, Arianne is only 23, and makes no statement of Darkstar being older than her.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

If you're raising a secret Targ you don't want to pull the king's (who wants to kill all the Targs) attention towards him. Especially when he has silver hair and purple eyes. It would be much dafer to raise him across the country as a bastard.

Is Darkstar impottant? YES!

Is he Ashara's offspring? Possibly

Is he vengeful? Definitely!

Is he R+L=DS? No I don't think so.

[OberynBlackfyre]

Sure, they could dump him off there and make him some random squire and give him a good life. But to have him in a position where he inherits the head of household position is just nuts. I know Dorne is somewhat more liberal than the other regions, but to have an unlegitimized bastard who isn't even the son of the last head of house take over the head of house position - that is a bit rich.

As both a bastard and now as part of the NW, Jon has no rights to claim lordship over Winterfell. Darkstar is different - he is the head of his household - a ridiculous position to put a random kid into.

uuuh the Daynes were very much supporters of the Targaryens. Arthur Dayne was Rhaegar's best friend, and the most noted Dayne in their whole House's history, like Darkstar said. If the family found out the child was the product of the man that their Sword of the Morning died to protect, I don't think they would be opposed to giving him a place in their family, even the head of the House for High Hermitage...I mean it's not like it was Starfall

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

I think people are maybe choosing to close their eyes to some things.....what if he and jon are paternal twins? One getting the look of the Starks and Lyanna, while the other almost completely taking after Rhaegar? This would kind of create a parallel of "twins" or the brother/sister thing that we commonly see in the series. The Daynes, being of Dorne and staunch supporters of the Targaryens, may have told Darkstar slightly about his past. And since Doran has always been a secret Targaryen supporter, he could understand why Darkstar is so very dangerous.

And to the question of him acting his age-he most totally is. He acts first, then thinks later. He makes dramatic gestures. Plus, he has a deep hate for Lannister rule it may seem, which no one really understands.

Also, Arianne is only 23, and makes no statement of Darkstar being older than her.

That still doesn't explain how he became the lord of High Hermitage, while Jon is raised a bastard. they would need the kings decree to make him lord, and if you're raising a secret Targ you do not want that attention

[Bear Island Bruiser]

Sure, they could dump him off there and make him some random squire and give him a good life. But to have him in a position where he inherits the head of household position is just nuts. I know Dorne is somewhat more liberal than the other regions, but to have an unlegitimized bastard who isn't even the son of the last head of house take over the head of house position - that is a bit rich.

As both a bastard and now as part of the NW, Jon has no rights to claim lordship over Winterfell. Darkstar is different - he is the head of his household - a ridiculous position to put a random kid into.

My point on this is that having a bastard from a male member of the family is almost seen as fine. It's almost expected of men to sleep around and a bastard is just something that can happen. They can also be given positions of power and CAN earn respect a la Ramsey Bolton, Aurane Waters and a few others. However a noble woman giving birth to an illegitimate child is a problem and a different kettle of fish. The noble woman will be unlikely to marry as she will be shamed, Look at the problem with Lolly's child they have to settle for Bronn. Easier to pass him off into some smaller out of the way place as a distant member of the family. No one looks too close and he's close enough to visit,

[OberynBlackfyre]

That still doesn't explain how he became the lord of High Hermitage, while Jon is raised a bastard. they would need the kings decree to make him lord, and if you're raising a secret Targ you do not want that attention

not when Dayne's resemble and have a little bit of Valyrian blood in the first place. And Jon was raised a bastard because that was literally the safest way for him to be concealed. How would Jon stay with the Daynes or anyone else when he clearly looked like a Stark? Yet Ned could not let him live in luxury because he was already betrothed to Catelyn.....he had to work with what he had

[Jem]

uuuh the Daynes were very much supporters of the Targaryens. Arthur Dayne was Rhaegar's best friend, and the most noted Dayne in their whole House's history, like Darkstar said. If the family found out the child was the product of the man that their Sword of the Morning died to protect, I don't think they would be opposed to giving him a place in their family, even the head of the House for High Hermitage...I mean it's not like it was Starfall

Pedigree, blood lines and legitimacy are all really important in this world. To fraudulently place someone in the position as the head of a household - even a relatively minor one is a seriously wrong thing to do. I just can't believe that the Daynes would do that, it is a really, really wrong thing to do for any reason. What is going to happen when Darkstar marries - the Daynes are selling a fraudulent product to his wife's family and that is a disgraceful thing to do.

My point on this is that having a bastard from a male member of the family is almost seen as fine. It's almost expected of men to sleep around and a bastard is just something that can happen. They can also be given positions of power and CAN earn respect a la Ramsey Bolton, Aurane Waters and a few others. However a noble woman giving birth to an illegitimate child is a problem and a different kettle of fish. The noble woman will be unlikely to marry as she will be shamed, Look at the problem with Lolly's child they have to settle for Bronn. Easier to pass him off into some smaller out of the way place as a distant member of the family. No one looks too close and he's close enough to visit,

Sure they can pass him off as a minor member of the family - maybe the bastard son of one of the Dayne men. But you just don't put him in the position of head of house - it is seriously the wrong thing to do and the Daynes could find themselves blacklisted from polite society for doing such a thing - or even worse. Such a thing is even more scandalous than having a woman bear an illegitimate child because it is fraudulent and goes against all that is important in the Westerosi noble class - blood lines and pedigree.

[Bear Island Bruiser]

That still doesn't explain how he became the lord of High Hermitage, while Jon is raised a bastard. they would need the kings decree to make him lord, and if you're raising a secret Targ you do not want that attention

There is no indication that High Hermitage is anything more than a holdfast. The name itself indicates somewhere tucked out of the way and difficult to get to. It certainly wouldn't be too difficult to pass him off as someone from a distant line of the family without anyone raising too much of an eyebrow.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

not when Dayne's resemble and have a little bit of Valyrian blood in the first place. And Jon was raised a bastard because that was literally the safest way for him to be concealed. How would Jon stay with the Daynes or anyone else when he clearly looked like a Stark? Yet Ned could not let him live in luxury because he was already betrothed to Catelyn.....he had to work with what he had

Yes but Ashara's child was supposedly stillborn, so there would've been someone else involved, which is a higher risk..And to get him raised from bastard to lord.. just another bastard would've been so much safer..

[Jem]

not when Dayne's resemble and have a little bit of Valyrian blood in the first place. And Jon was raised a bastard because that was literally the safest way for him to be concealed. How would Jon stay with the Daynes or anyone else when he clearly looked like a Stark? Yet Ned could not let him live in luxury because he was already betrothed to Catelyn.....he had to work with what he had

Jon was raised a bastard because that was the safest way for him to be concealed. Yet Darkstar was put in a position where he was given the position of head of a house? Why not just make Darkstar a Dayne bastard like Jon was a Stark bastard - that would make much more sense.

[Jem]

There is no indication that High Hermitage is anything more than a holdfast. The name itself indicates somewhere tucked out of the way and difficult to get to. It certainly wouldn't be too difficult to pass him off as someone from a distant line of the family without anyone raising too much of an eyebrow.

Sure, pass him off as someone who is distantly related - but do not make him the head of a house! I don't care how small or relatively unimportant the house is, you don't just put some unrelated bastard in the high seat. It is ridiculous.

[Florina Laufeyson]

I was under the impression Ned stopped at Starfall to give Ashara Dawn. Basically: "Oops, your brother died by the hand of my cranninja and it was a sad story. Here's his sword and my condolences." Of course he could have used that as a great patsy for his little secret.

Why does everyone want Darkstar to be a secret Targ?

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

There is no indication that High Hermitage is anything more than a holdfast. The name itself indicates somewhere tucked out of the way and difficult to get to. It certainly wouldn't be too difficult to pass him off as someone from a distant line of the family without anyone raising too much of an eyebrow.

http://gameofthrones.net/images/Westeros_Maps/map_of_westeros.jpg

High Hermitage shown as a castle, which implies it's more than a holdfast. A lot of places in the North aren't showed on the map, even when they're pretty important in the story (like the nightford). the fact that High Hermitage shows on the map is an indication that it's a notable castle.

[Bear Island Bruiser]

Jon was raised a bastard because that was the safest way for him to be concealed. Yet Darkstar was put in a position where he was given the position of head of a house? Why not just make Darkstar a Dayne bastard like Jon was a Stark bastard - that would make much more sense.

Cos the whole High Hermitage thing was already in place to protect Ashara's child so it's a follow through with that.

Is it any less shameful than the most honourable man in the whole of Westeros passing off his sister's illegitimate child as his own? Lying to his wife, family, best friend who is now the king?

As I say this whole thing is a bit of a stretch but I reckon it's a possibility.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

I was under the impression Ned stopped at Starfall to give Ashara Dawn. Basically: "Oops, your brother died by the hand of my cranninja and it was a sad story. Here's his sword and my condolences." Of course he could have used that as a great patsy for his little secret.

Why does everyone want Darkstar to be a secret Targ?

I think so too, I think iet's possible Ashara helped him to get Jon safely to White Harbor, but twins? Comon... isn't it complicated enough already?

Because he has silver hair and purple eyes, wich I think is just there to make us think he might be a Targ.. It's too obvious a hint for GRRM. Imean.. he spent 5 books giving hints like: Promise me Ned... and then he exposes Lyanna's son to be the silver haired purple eyed guy? I don't buy it..

[Bear Island Bruiser]

I was under the impression Ned stopped at Starfall to give Ashara Dawn. Basically: "Oops, your brother died by the hand of my cranninja and it was a sad story. Here's his sword and my condolences." Of course he could have used that as a great patsy for his little secret.

Why does everyone want Darkstar to be a secret Targ?

The whole stop by just to say hi sorry I killed your brother thing is a bit much. Clearly there is more to it than that. Especially if he's carrying his sister's baby with him.

I don't really want him to be a secret Targ he just looks so much like one that it's a possibility. I really think there is more to him than just a tool to hurt Myrcella and have Arianne get away with it.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

Cos the whole High Hermitage thing was already in place to protect Ashara's child so it's a follow through with that.

Is it any less shameful than the most honourable man in the whole of Westeros passing off his sister's illegitimate child as his own? Lying to his wife, family, best friend who is now the king?

As I say this whole thing is a bit of a stretch but I reckon it's a possibility.

He would still be a bastard, who ONLY could inherit by the kings decree. A king who happens to hate and wants to kill every Targ... Seriously.. if you wanted to protect a silver haired purple eyed kid from a king who hates silver haired purple eyed kids, would you ask a kings decree to make him lord of a minor caslte?!

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

The whole stop by just to say hi sorry I killed your brother thing is a bit much. Clearly there is more to it than that. Especially if he's carrying his sister's baby with him.

I don't really want him to be a secret Targ he just looks so much like one that it's a possibility. I really think there is more to him than just a tool to hurt Myrcella and have Arianne get away with it.

I thin k there's more to him too, but being a secret Targ is way too obvious.

I think since Ashara had history with eithetr Ned or Brandon, she helped getting Jon to some safe place (wHITE hARBOR) sorry caps.. She might have lost Brandons baby, and then Brandon himself and killed herself for it, or she might have escaped with baby Aegon as Septa Lemore (cause the whole story of throwing herself off a tower sounds a bit too much like Bael the Bard). In any case, Ned a nd Ashara were in to it together, but Darkstar is no Targ.It's too obvious, we're meant to think that upon seeing him, but he isn't. There's something else.

[Tagganaro]

I find all the speculation about Darkstar being a secret Targ to be funny. I just think he's a really poorly written character- Someone who GRRM thought sounded cool in his head and then it just didn't remotely work out that way on the page. I just find it funny how as a result of how poorly written he is, and him being called "dangerous" by Doran Martell, that we have to make up all these birth scenarios in order to make it true- in order to make it seem like Doran was actually justified in calling him the most dangerous man in Dorne.

I think it's more likely than not that Darkstar is just Darkstar. He is a Dayne with no hidden parents. He was called "the most dangerous man in Dorne" because GRRM really felt like he was writing a badass character, and wanted to justify/foreshadow Darkstar viciously attacking Myrcella.

As has been pointed out, there's just so many logical flaws with "DS" being Lyanna's son. It just doesn't make sense that she'd make Ned promise her something so vigorously, and that Ned would be haunted by his decision to stick to that years later, if it ended up that DS was just being left in Dorne. No reason to go through that whole song and dance routine then.

[Dragonfish]

This theory fails to explain why Ned thinks he's been living lies for fourteen years, and why he thinks he payed a price to keep his promises to Lyanna. It is also inconsistent with the blue rose vision from the HotU, which strongly hints at Rhaegar and Lyanna's offspring being on the Wall.

Also, I believe the OP mentioned that half-Targs generally display Targ features. This is actually not true. Rhaegar's own daughter had the Martell look, and there are are examples of past half-Targs who have had no Valyrian features.

Incidentally, I'd also be curious to know what the OP thinks are the holes in the R+L=J theory. Because to me, the theory is pretty damn solid.